The New HMS Forth and the small HMS Magpie

[dolphin38]

A few pictures today of HMS Forth sailing for the first time under the White Ensign and the survey vessel HMS Magpie

 

IMGP0758 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0756 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0768 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0763 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0723 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0726 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

IMGP0730 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

Enjoy,

 

Willy

[mick b]

Blimey has it got to the stage where we are putting white ensigns on little grey tenders?🤣

 

Black Swan class sloop to this?

 

Nice pics though 👍

 

Mike

Edited March 22, 2019 by mick b

[JohnT]

Great photos and thanks for sharing.  HMS Forth looks quite a nice looking ship but not exactly bristling with weaponry.  I had a quick look on Wiki and the constabulary role of anti smuggling, etc was what I expected however I didn't think I'd read "It was reported in October 2017 that Forth had been earmarked to replace half-sister HMS Clyde as the Falkland Islands Guardship."  

[dolphin38]

19 hours ago, JohnT said:

Great photos and thanks for sharing.  HMS Forth looks quite a nice looking ship but not exactly bristling with weaponry.  I had a quick look on Wiki and the constabulary role of anti smuggling, etc was what I expected however I didn't think I'd read "It was reported in October 2017 that Forth had been earmarked to replace half-sister HMS Clyde as the Falkland Islands Guardship."  

Yes on completion of trials and workup she is destined to go to the Falklands late 2019 to replace Clyde which will then be paid off and is going to be sold to the Brazilian Navy

Edited March 23, 2019 by dolphin38

[Seahawk]

On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 8:49 PM, dolphin38 said:

 

IMGP0768 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on Flickr

 

 

 

IMGP0726 by Phillip Wilmshurst, on 

Clyde may not bristle with armament but that looks like a hefty VDS winch on the quarterdeck.

 

Are you sure that really is Magpie and not just a bit that fell off the real HMS Magpie?

 

Aren't Clyde and her sister now to be retained to bolster the response to the immigration crisis?  Or is that another bold statement that gets quietly reneged upon once the cameras stop rolling?

[Chewbacca]

No, that is the whole of HMS MAGPIE, all 18 m of her including waterjet propulsion.

 

Actually she's a fair bit larger than HMS GLEANER that she replaced in June this year and still not the smallest ships flying the White Ensign; that title belongs to the Gibraltar Squadron patrol boats, SABRE and SCIMITAR.

[Dave Fleming]

10 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

 

 

Actually she's a fair bit larger than HMS GLEANER that she replaced in June this year and still not the smallest ships flying the White Ensign; that title belongs to the Gibraltar Squadron patrol boats, SABRE and SCIMITAR.

 

Are they not due to be replaced this year?

 

 

it’s the three Batch 1 River class that are being retained (Tyne, Mersey and Severn).  Clyde is still on lease, so she is being returned to her owners and sold to Brazil

 

 

[Chewbacca]

5 hours ago, Dave Fleming said:

 

Are they not due to be replaced this year?

 

 

There was an Invitation to Tender out last year but as far as I am aware no contract has yet been let to build them so it certainly won't be this year!

[Kingsman]

I'm sure Argentina is quivering at the thought of a 30mm cannon guarding the Falklands seas again!  I wonder why we insist on fitting such small calibre primary weapons on vessels of this class.  Some other countries would fit a 57 or 76mm main battery on a vessel like this.  Indeed some nations' coastguards are more heavily armed.  You can always have 7.62-30mm secondary weapons for lesser threats. 

 

And why don't we arm our Border Force cutters and leave the Navy to get on with other tasks instead of having to assign a patrol boat or frigate every time the threat of weaponry is considered necessary to stop a vessel?  The vessels have foredeck space and strength for a 20mm-class weapon.  If the Police (Civil Nuclear Constabulary) can go to sea with 30mm cannon, 12.7mm MG, Miniguns and GPMG on the civilian-registered ships used to transport nuclear materials why not our Border Force?  Customs officers routinely used firearms until as late as the 1970's IIRC.

[Procopius]

6 minutes ago, Das Abteilung said:

I'm sure Argentina is quivering at the thought of a 30mm cannon guarding the Falklands seas again!  I wonder why we insist on fitting such small calibre primary weapons on vessels of this class.  Some other countries would fit a 57 or 76mm main battery on a vessel like this.  Indeed some nations' coastguards are more heavily armed.  You can always have 7.62-30mm secondary weapons for lesser threats. 

If Argentina, in the throes of madness, decided to invade the Falklands again, I don't think the presence of a three-inch gun on the local guardship would make an appreciable difference. 

[Kingsman]

23 hours ago, Procopius said:

If Argentina, in the throes of madness, decided to invade the Falklands again, I don't think the presence of a three-inch gun on the local guardship would make an appreciable difference. 

Probably not.  But it at least looks as if we mean business.  We went from 40mm to 76mm on the last class of Hong Kong Patrol Craft - vessels still giving sterling service with their new owners.  I never understood why we didn't keep them: it was clearly worthwhile for Eire to bring 2 of them back to home waters and they seem to find them suitable for the North Atlantic littoral.

 

Don't underestimate the Oto-Melara 76mm.  Yes, only 76mm - but potentially 120rpm for short bursts.  But a vessel of this class wouldn't have the sensors and FCS (or magazine!) to make full use of its capability.

 

Another question.  Since the Hydrographic Office was set up as a government Trading Fund, why do we need naval survey vessels?  Much of the survey work is contracted-out (I used to place such contracts and charter survey vessels for Naval Parties to perform survey work back in the 80's).  Why aren't the survey vessels at least part of the RFA if not fully civilianised?  RFA can be, and are, armed for self-protection.

[Dave Fleming]

1 hour ago, Das Abteilung said:

 Why aren't the survey vessels at least part of the RFA if not fully civilianised?  RFA can be, and are, armed for self-protection.

 

I understand some of the survey work is classified (Routes for SSBNs etc)

[Kingsman]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:01 PM, Dave Fleming said:

 

I understand some of the survey work is classified (Routes for SSBNs etc)

Indeed so.  And a Big Grey Survey Ship flying the White Ensign is a bit of a giveaway about where they might be looking.

[Kingsman]

HMS Forth chuffed along and anchored a couple of miles offshore in Weymouth Bay on Monday evening and pottered back East along the horizon on Tuesday evening.  Good looking vessel, lack of armament and sensors notwithstanding.

 

She can obviously land a small helicopter such as a Wildcat, but can't carry an embarked aircraft with no hangar.  Does anyone know if she can refuel an aircraft that has landed?  RN hasn't cottoned-on to drone rotorcraft yet, which could considerably enhance her surveillance horizon and speed vessel identification and initial examination - and have more chance of catching fisheries rule-breakers and smugglers in the act.

[Dave Fleming]

I beleive Merlin can land on the Rivers as well. 

[Seahawk]

23 hours ago, Das Abteilung said:

RN hasn't cottoned-on to drone rotorcraft yet, which could considerably enhance her surveillance horizon and speed vessel identification and initial examination - and have more chance of catching fisheries rule-breakers and smugglers in the act.

Is that altogether fair?  Wasn't there a short-lived 2-men-and-a-dog outfit at Culdrose, glorified with a 7xx Squadron designation which currently eludes me, tasked with evaluating the naval applications of various drones? 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Seahawk

[Chewbacca]

There's actually a lot of work going on in that space.  We shouldn't dismiss it just because the RN doesn't shout about it.  The challenge that the RN faces is that it is yet another new capability clamouring for a slice of the defence budget.

[Dave Fleming]

11 hours ago, Seahawk said:

Is that altogether fair?  Wasn't there a short-lived 2-men-and-a-dog outfit at Culdrose, glorified with a 7xx Squadron designation which currently eludes me, tasked with evaluating the naval applications of various drones? 

 

700X were testing ScanEagle

[Kingsman]

Perhaps bad choice of language by me.  Clearly RN know they exist and have looked into them, but haven't acquired or deployed any.  An ideal and relatively inexpensive aid to littoral surveillance by a small fleet around along coastline.  The ability to land back on a ship's deck is not as easy as it looks unless it's a rotorcraft.  Unless the drone is cheap enough to be expendable: a drone equivalent of a sonobuoy. Target drones have been launched at sea from catapults on helidecks for many years.  I was responsible for tri-service target drone purchasing back in the late 90's.  They pancaked in the sea alongside the ship to be fished out, washed out, serviced and re-used.  Meggitt (formerly Target Technology Ltd) produced a recce drone version of their Banshee target drone - which we still use - before they sold their drone business to QinetiQ.

[junglierating]

On 4/4/2019 at 11:19 PM, Seahawk said:

Is that altogether fair?  Wasn't there a short-lived 2-men-and-a-dog outfit at Culdrose, glorified with a 7xx Squadron designation which currently eludes me, tasked with evaluating the naval applications of various drones? 

Yes