Smithy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Inspired by Troy's excellent WIP build of his version of this kit, and even though I've got several other kits languishing in various states of progress, I thought I'd get this little beauty out of the stash. This is the new tool version with the early fabric wing and I have to say it's a lovely kit, although the canopy is a little iffy as the horizontal framework appears to be too high. Still I'm not going to worry too much as I wanted a quick (by my glacial standards) OOB build. First off obligatory box art, care of Airfix... Mine will be in the same scheme as the boxart, an 85 Sqn Hurri in France. I only started this yesterday but it seems to be coming along quite nicely. I'll be doing this with the canopy closed so I haven't bothered with any washes or drybrushing in the cockpit because being 72nd you really won't see much. I usually use Tamiya tape for harnesses but had a Sutton harness decal from a Tamiya Spitfire kit rolling around and thought I'd use that. I'm not sure whether I'm entirely keen on it but for a closed canopy 72nd kit it should be OK. Although it's early days it's a really fun build. Big, big thanks to Troy for all his Hurricane knowledge about interior colours and I completely admit to copying his unabashedly! Anyway here is the state of progress right now. It's night here and this was taken with my mobile so no prizes for photography. All going well tomorrow and if I have the time, I hope to get the fuselage buttoned up, the wings and tail plane on ready for a lick of paint over the weekend. Cheers, Tim 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_t Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Looking good so far, following! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 The light is good this morning and I had a little spare time so thought I'd get some more progress made. Glued all the bits and bobs to the cockpit floor and glued the instrument panel and pipe framework to the rear bulkhead. Next step is to let the glue cure and then I can get the fuselage closed up and the wings attached. As you can see in the photo, that wing trailing edge is going to need a bit of tidying up but overall I'm pleased with how it's going together. I've included a enlargement of the decal Sutton harness. As I mentioned above this is the first time I've used a decal harness and I'm still not sure if I like it. Oh well hopefully it passes muster with the canopy on. The OCD in me is saying that I should paint the gun button on the control stick brass but the sensible part of me is saying there's no way it will be seen with the lid on. Knowing me, Mr OCD will win the debate! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azureglo Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Gotta be etch, one of the few 5 minute things that looks amazing: Dunno how accurate you want to be but you might want to fill the fabric behind the gun bays as that was metal in the real thing. A gunsight from the spares box would help too. Mine hasn't got one in real life so I didn't bother 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Thanks Azure. I usually just use Tamiya masking tape for 1/72 with the canopy closed. If I was going to do it open or in 1/48 I'd probably use one of the etch sets I have in my box of goodies but this is just meant to be a quick, fun OOB build. With the hood closed it'll probably do the trick of giving an OK impression of a harness. In the past I've faffed around, procrastinated and got bugger all done worrying too much about trying to be hyper accurate with the small details. TBH I'm not the greatest modeller by any stretch and I've come to the realisation that for that reason it's silly of me trying to overthink the small stuff and better to just build the best I can and enjoy the process. Getting some more done this evening, fuselage is now closed, wings are on, horizontal stabilisers are on as is the rudder. I'm just about to glue the carburettor air intake on and them a bit of sanding and a tiny bit of filler (probably more my fault rather than the kit's) and it's looking good for paint over the weekend. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 Whizzing along now. Gaps filled, sanded and primed. I don't usually prime as I'm an enamel brush painter but seeing as there's white on the undersides I thought it might be wise to this time. I didn't bother with anything fancy, just used some thinned Humbrol 64. It's shown up a couple of places which could do with a little more sanding but nothing major. Hoping to mask the canopy today with Parafilm-M and get that stuck on. If I get time I might even get a coat of white on the underside. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azureglo Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 17 hours ago, Smithy said: Thanks Azure. I usually just use Tamiya masking tape for 1/72 with the canopy closed. If I was going to do it open or in 1/48 I'd probably use one of the etch sets I have in my box of goodies but this is just meant to be a quick, fun OOB build. With the hood closed it'll probably do the trick of giving an OK impression of a harness. I only mentioned it as the Eduard steel ones are dirt cheap, literally are minutes to get on and even through a closed canopy look pretty amazing. It the one thing everyone who buys my desktop jobbies asks for... Anil 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) Well I dragged the canopy out to mask and I just don't like the look of it. Not one little bit. The horizontal framing is far too high which completely throws out the look of it to my eyes. The airframe I'm modelling should also have the horizontal framing on the side of the windscreen and this canopy is missing that. All up it just looks far too off for my liking and I've decided to bin it. I had a rummage around and I've got an old mould Airfix Hurri and have dragged the canopy for that out. A quick look and it seems that it should fit quite well on the new Airfix moulding. It's a bit old school but I dunked it in Humbrol Clear and it's come out rather lovely and greatly helped the transparency and the appearance of being thinner. And at least the framing is there and in the right place. Actually today was the first time I've used Humbrol Clear. I bought the stuff out of pure curiosity as I've used Klear for years and now use Pledge. I experimented with a scrap canopy today and was thrilled how well it came out after being dunked in Clear. I then duly baptised the old mould Airfix hood in the stuff. I'll let the canopy have a good old rest until tomorrow and will then endeavour to get it masked and mounted on the Hurri. Edited March 23, 2019 by Smithy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchen Modeller Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 This is looking good Smithy - I've using Humbrol Clear for a while now - works as a easy to use gloss coat - it does occasionally frost but nothing another coat won't fix. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Smithy said: The horizontal framing is far too high which completely throws out the look of it to my eyes. The airframe I'm modelling should also have the horizontal framing on the side of the windscreen and this canopy is missing that. Hi Tim great (and fast) work so far, and i'm flattered that I got you moving! The canopy is too high, its was the first glitch I spotted years ago. Two reasons, the kit spine is too scale, and thus the canopy will be too high as it's too thick, and/or, the prototype canopy was deeper, but Hawker never changed the drawings, A.L Bentley commented on this back in 1980, as did Peter Cooke in his Hurricane Veracity article, so this may also be a factor (and handy if you want to do all the backdating to do the prototype) But for VY-G(orC) this has the later type windscreen with the straight lower edge, so using the old tool Mk.I will be a good solution. A suggestion, use the wheels out the old tool kit, but drill out the centres and replace them with leftover 5 spoke hubs from an Eduard Spitfire IX kit, you'll need a 1/6th inch drill bit for this, also, if you have a leftover Spitfire Mk.I De Havilland unit, (bet you do ) use that, as that is what VY-G was fitted with, not the (overlong) DH Hurricane unit in the kit. all these points are very visible here The too high canopy, oversize wheel and overlong spinner are the big visual glitches in the kit, the actual main airframe look very shapely. HTH T PS by the time the above, and this were taken, VY-G/C had spent several months outside in France, I don't know if the difference in tone on the wing in the image above is due to the fabric weathering differently, (more vs the glossier metal parts) or fading more, but there is a noticeable difference, the Dark Earth on the metal part appearing nearly the same tone as Dark Green on the fabric! Note also the scuffed back to bare metal behind the gun bays. PPS ,mine is stalled messing about with varnish... I did a test patch on something else to see if a slightly glossier finish on the metal compared to the fabric. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kitchen Modeller said: This is looking good Smithy - I've using Humbrol Clear for a while now - works as a easy to use gloss coat - it does occasionally frost but nothing another coat won't fix. Thanks KM, I'm going to have a go at using Humbrol Clear as a gloss coat now. I'm stunned with how well it did with dipping canopies. It looks better than old school Klear. 25 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Hi Tim great (and fast) work so far, and i'm flattered that I got you moving! The canopy is too high, its was the first glitch I spotted years ago. Two reasons, the kit spine is too scale, and thus the canopy will be too high as it's too thick, and/or, the prototype canopy was deeper, but Hawker never changed the drawings, A.L Bentley commented on this back in 1980, as did Peter Cooke in his Hurricane Veracity article, so this may also be a factor (and handy if you want to do all the backdating to do the prototype) But for VY-G(orC) this has the later type windscreen with the straight lower edge, so using the old tool Mk.I will be a good solution. A suggestion, use the wheels out the old tool kit, but drill out the centres and replace them with leftover 5 spoke hubs from an Eduard Spitfire IX kit, you'll need a 1/6th inch drill bit for this, also, if you have a leftover Spitfire Mk.I De Havilland unit, (bet you do ) use that, as that is what VY-G was fitted with, not the (overlong) DH Hurricane unit in the kit. all these points are very visible here The too high canopy, oversize wheel and overlong spinner are the big visual glitches in the kit, the actual main airframe look very shapely. HTH T Thanks Troy for the tips. I'm so much happier with the old Airfix canopy, that new one just looks so wrong for that particular aircraft. Tim Edited March 23, 2019 by Smithy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 Making some more progress with the 85 Sqn Hurri. Got the canopy from the old mould Airfix masked with Parafilm-M and glued onto the fuselage. Mating this old mould canopy with the new mould kit was actually very easy, requiring just a little sanding around the rear bulkhead section and a small amount of filler under both sides of the front windscreen. I'm much happier with it now. It's also had some interior grey green painted on the framework in preparation for the Dark Green. The underside has had the starboard half painted with four very thin coats of white (Humbrol 34) and the body has been masked, ready for the Dark Earth and Dark Green upper sides. I usually paint the undersides first and then do the upper side camouflage with WWII RAF aircraft but seeing as this has black on the port half underside I thought that it's probably better to leave this very dark colour to be painted last.. Here's the pics of where she stands right now. The uppers are pretty blotchy from the primer and some additional sanding. Now with that aside I think I might have discovered something about this aircraft and hopefully @Troy Smith with all his Hurricane knowledge and expertise can add to this. To set the scene Airfix supply decals to portray this aircraft as C or G (the G appearing in the same style as I just typed with the horizontal "hook" to the G ). Looking at this photo you'd initially think that it's actually coded C as there's no horizontal "hook" to the G... ...but on blowing the image up I'm 99.9% certain I can see the downward stroke of the G... And this immediately made me think of this Hurricane photographed at Merville probably about a month earlier so April 1940... 85 Sqn at this time seems to have used this slightly unusual way of marking the aircraft G with only the downward stroke and no horizontal stroke, and seeing that probably only a month or so separates these photos I'm actually wondering whether this may actually be the same airframe. This build has actually made me drag out my old mould 1/48 Airfix Hurricane which has the markings for the VY-G in the photo from Merville and I'm planning on doing it after finishing this. If it is the same aircraft though then the 1/48 should actually be a fabric wing. Oh well cross that bridge when I come to building it! Thanks for looking. Tim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 If it is the same aircraft, Tim, it's had it's exhaust stubs (and engine?) changed between photographs. Roundels size, proportion and position in relation to codes look consistent for it being the same aircraft with a cramped extra yellow outer ring being added, you'd expect a replacement airframe with later roundels to have better spacing of the codes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Hi Tim I think I made the same points awhile back when you asked, ah, here and then scroll down 15 minutes ago, Smithy said: ...but on blowing the image up I'm 99.9% certain I can see the downward stroke of the G... And this immediately made me think of this Hurricane photographed at Merville probably about a month earlier so April 1940... two points. note the down stoke of the G is broken by a removeable panel, which look to have been replaced, taking the right end of the 'G' painted on it...or it's obscured by dirt/oil. I don't think that the other pic is April 1940, but earlier, note the heavier clothing and a much less faded plane. Note again the straight sided later windscreen, and Spitfire De Havilland prop unit Amazingly enough I 'found' my parafilm, by accident, in a small landslide of tat.... cheers T 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 Hadn't seen that thread Troy, thanks for the link to it. 85 Sqn isn't one of my big interests so I had a look just now through some 73 Sqn things including Don Minterne's history of the unit and using the photos of 73 as a reference point in relation to clothing and conditions you're probably right about the date. The photos from February 1940 of 73 look similar very similar in relation to conditions and what the erks were wearing to that photo of the 85 Sqn Hurricane at Merville. That's put a bit of a spanner in the works for my 1/48 Airfix build as I was planning on doing the 85 Sqn option. Then again I might just think sod it and build it up anyway! Pleased you found the Parafilm, it's amazing stuff, I personally find it very easy to mask with. Just make sure that you're using a brand spanking new Exacto blade. A dull blade is the worst enemy of the stuff. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 8 minutes ago, Smithy said: Hadn't seen that thread Troy, thanks for the link to it. erm, it was you asking the question..... sounds like my memory for everything else apart from plane details... 9 minutes ago, Smithy said: That's put a bit of a spanner in the works for my 1/48 Airfix build as I was planning on doing the 85 Sqn option. Then again I might just think sod it and build it up anyway! it's not impossible to make a fabric wing. just time consuming. There were resin wings made for the old Airfix kit, by Aardvark and moulds then taken over by Heritage. When I 'found' the Parafilm, I also 'found' my set of earth tones pastel chalks.... had a go at an exhaust stain, asI can just wipe it off. Got the prop on, and even spins, but off out soon, having a treat, an afternoon at Hendon. 13 minutes ago, Smithy said: 85 Sqn isn't one of my big interests they did get photographed a lot though, winter 39/40, the May ones at Lille Seclin, July 1940 at Castle Camps, October when in Yorshire, and winter 40/41 as nightfighters. My 'interest' came about as it was one of the options in the 1/24th Airfix kit.... my pride and joy 10th Birthday present! cheers T 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: it's not impossible to make a fabric wing. just time consuming. There were resin wings made for the old Airfix kit, by Aardvark and moulds then taken over by Heritage. I've got the Classic Airframes fabric wing Hurri in the stash Troy which I'll be doing either as a very early 111 Sqn one or Cobber Kain's Paddy so I really can't be bothered stuffing around too much with the Airfix one. 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: they did get photographed a lot though, winter 39/40, the May ones at Lille Seclin, July 1940 at Castle Camps, October when in Yorshire, and winter 40/41 as nightfighters. I've got A. J. Brookes' pictorial history of 85 Sqn, "Fighter Squadron at War" which is a fantastic photographic record of the unit but that's the only reference I have which is specifically devoted to the squadron. It does have some cracking pics of their Hurricanes and a lot of pre-war photos that I haven't seen elsewhere. 1 hour ago, Troy Smith said: My 'interest' came about as it was one of the options in the 1/24th Airfix kit.... my pride and joy 10th Birthday present! Great kit, I have a mate who started it when we were at school and only got around to finishing it a few years back! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) A Cadbury Hurricane... Put the final coat of Dark Earth (Humbrol 29) on the Hurri earlier this afternoon. All going well I'll start with the Dark Green later this evening, which for me is always good fun as that's when the build starts to look like how it's going to end up. And for a bit of fun, here she is with the last Hurri I made, the 1/48 Hasegawa in the markings of Billy Fiske's usual mount with 601 Sqn. I made this back in 2007 but sadly moving country the last time has taken its toll. The damage actually isn't too bad, just the undercarriage, the antenna and the pitot tube and I really must pull my finger out and do the repairs as it's probably less than an hour to fix. Thanks for looking, Tim Edited March 28, 2019 by Smithy 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Smithy said: in the markings of Billy Fiske's usual mount with 601 Sqn. Is there a date, just that when a few more pics of 601 in the summer of 1940 turned up, (July or August) they are sporting red/white/blue spinners. On 27/03/2019 at 12:52, Smithy said: I've got A. J. Brookes' pictorial history of 85 Sqn, "Fighter Squadron at War" which is a fantastic photographic record of the unit but that's the only reference I have which is specifically devoted to the squadron. It does have some cracking pics of their Hurricanes and a lot of pre-war photos that I haven't seen elsewhere. I have the double reprint with Bomber Sq at war, I remember it from the library, but was less impressed when I picked up a copy (it was cheap, a 1p and post job from Amazon) On 27/03/2019 at 12:52, Smithy said: Great kit, I have a mate who started it when we were at school and only got around to finishing it a few years back! A kit I intent to try to improve, if I ever can be bothered, I have a couple with faults, the last one was a very old boxing (it has a 'new' start on it! ) very nearly complete, from the local tip for a pound... plus the remains of 3 from my youth, so plenty to test ideas on. As best I work out, they made the gun bays and merlin to scale, and as a result the wing and cowling are too deep, and the spinner is too big. I think this is fixable. The wing tips are too short, so the ailerons are too long and the wrong shape, again, probably fixable. The one issue that won't be fixable easily, is the rear fuselage, where the underfuselage fillet is too deep, and the rear fuselage too shallow, but in profile if look right, if that makes sense. The Trumpeter kit is amazingly good shape wise, (apart from the blinkin' recessed rivets!) and I'm still amazed this has not been shrunk down .... while they churn out and mess up other classic British types on a regular basis... cheers T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Is there a date, just that when a few more pics of 601 in the summer of 1940 turned up, (July or August) they are sporting red/white/blue spinners. The red, white and blue spinners didn't seem to be entirely the norm Troy and were possibly flight commander or even personal affectations. 601 at this time was very much an Auxiliary squadron in every sense of the word and they deliberately tried to separate themselves from the regular air force in whichever way they could. Personnel at this time as you know were for the most part exceedingly wealthy and rather flamboyant, most drove luxury motorcars and when petrol rationing threatened their automotive freedom they bought their own petrol station via one member whose father was on the board of a petrol company. They even thumbed their noses at dress regulations by having their tunics lined with scarlet silk and wearing dark blue ties instead of the prescribed black. No photo exists of P3383 so I tried to make it as it possibly was during the second week of August. There's the possibility that it had the flying sword on the white section of the tail fin but this was still by no means universal. Fiske was still a relative newcomer at this stage and I chose a fairly plain mount for him as it seems plausible. I've been collecting info on Fiske for nearly two decades and was even in touch with Simon Lillywhite (probably the biggest expert on him) but alas have not been able to find a photo of P3383 or P3358, the aircraft in which he was mortally wounded. There's been a few companies that have rolled out UF-K (P3886) as "Billy Fiske's Hurricane" but he only flew that on a handful of occasions, his most flown Hurricane was P3383, hence why I wanted to model her. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchen Modeller Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 Paint looking good Smithy - that 1/48 Hurri looks really good also - yes you should get your leg out and fix it...:) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 On 3/23/2019 at 6:57 PM, Smithy said: Well I dragged the canopy out to mask and I just don't like the look of it. Not one little bit. The horizontal framing is far too high which completely throws out the look of it to my eyes. The airframe I'm modelling should also have the horizontal framing on the side of the windscreen and this canopy is missing that. All up it just looks far too off for my liking and I've decided to bin it. I had a rummage around and I've got an old mould Airfix Hurri and have dragged the canopy for that out. A quick look and it seems that it should fit quite well on the new Airfix moulding. It's a bit old school but I dunked it in Humbrol Clear and it's come out rather lovely and greatly helped the transparency and the appearance of being thinner. And at least the framing is there and in the right place. Very interesting. If the canopy from the old Airfix Hurricane I fits, or can easily be made to fit, the new Airfix kit, then the Falcon Clearvax canopies designed for the same (old) Airfix kit, ought to fit as well and will look an order of magnitude better. They might be considered a bit spendy at £12.99 for 2 (there are 2 on the moulded sheet): https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/FNCV0272 but some folks may have the set in stock already. Squadron also sell the canopies separately (again in pairs) for £4.99 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SQS9109 which is slightly less eye-wateringly painful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 33 minutes ago, Seahawk said: Very interesting. If the canopy from the old Airfix Hurricane I fits, or can easily be made to fit, the new Airfix kit, then the Falcon Clearvax canopies designed for the same (old) Airfix kit, ought to fit as well and will look an order of magnitude better. They might be considered a bit spendy at £12.99 for 2 (there are 2 on the moulded sheet): https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/FNCV0272 but some folks may have the set in stock already. Squadron also sell the canopies separately (again in pairs) for £4.99 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SQS9109 which is slightly less eye-wateringly painful. The canopy from the old mould Hurri goes easily on the new mould kit Seahawk. I found that all it needed was a little sanding behind the seat on the kit to make it sit nicely and a tiny bit of filler under both sides of the windscreen - the perfect job for the old filler and acetone nail polish remover trick. It's a 5 minute job (if that) to get it to mate nicely with the new mould kit and it makes all the difference to my eyes. The horizontal framing on the new kit's canopy is far too high which makes the whole canopy look off and I feel affects the look of the whole Hurricane. Also note that the windscreen on the new kit's part lacks the horizontal framing which is OK for an early Hurri but is incorrect for VY-G. The Falcon canopies should also fit the new kit very nicely and with only a tiny bit of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Swindell Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Seahawk said: They might be considered a bit spendy at £12.99 for 2 (there are 2 on the moulded sheet): https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/FNCV0272 but some folks may have the set in stock already. Squadron also sell the canopies separately (again in pairs) for £4.99 https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/SQS9109 which is slightly less eye-wateringly painful. On the other hand, if you count all the other canopies on the Falcon sheet, it's less tha £1 each, whereas the Squadron ones,as there are only 2 are £2.50 each, so it rather depends on how many of the other canopies in the Falcon set will be useful to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said: On the other hand, if you count all the other canopies on the Falcon sheet, it's less tha £1 each, whereas the Squadron ones,as there are only 2 are £2.50 each, so it rather depends on how many of the other canopies in the Falcon set will be useful to you. Very true. However practically all the other subjects (exception: Tempest) have now been superseded by more modern kits which they may not fit.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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