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AndrewCJ50

PC10 paint mix and Gunze paints?

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Dear Fellow Modellers

 

I'm sure this is an old subject, what the best paints are for the RFC PC10 colour, but as a confirmed Gunze paint enthusiast I wondered if anyone had advice on a Gunze paint or mix they could offer?

 

Thanks

 

Andrew

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One of the biggest chestnuts in modelling!

 

You've no doubt read any number of the countless explanations of what it was and how it was made by suspending pigments of iron ore and lampblack in cellulose dope. It could vary greatly depending on application, the doping scheme being used, exposure to the elements and the proportion of iron oxide in the red pigment and the presence of other compounds in that pigment.

 

With that out of the way, it shows how the colour of PC10 had enormous variance and for that reason from a modelling perspective you can run with anything from a lightish olive drab to an almost chocolate colour. Personally I think an olive drab shade is a good place to start and depending on whether you want a weathered machine proceed from there.

 

I use Humbrol and have used 66 (for a fairly fresh factory finish) to 155. It's really up to you and the nice thing is that no one can say you're wrong so long as you stick in that general area!

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Though it does'nt provide an exact shade of paint, there's a quote from the late Dan-san Abbott that I've kept filed away:

'The RNAS were not permitted to use PC10, and RFC patent and they developed their own color which was a greenish shade of olive drab.'

 

...but then AK Interactive comes along and labels their PC10 as early and late, ignoring the above??

 

AK-WW1-RFC---RNAS-Aircraft-colors-AK2280

 

regards,

Jack

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7 hours ago, JackG said:

Though it does'nt provide an exact shade of paint, there's a quote from the late Dan-san Abbott that I've kept filed away:

'The RNAS were not permitted to use PC10, and RFC patent and they developed their own color which was a greenish shade of olive drab.'

 

...but then AK Interactive comes along and labels their PC10 as early and late, ignoring the above??

 

AK-WW1-RFC---RNAS-Aircraft-colors-AK2280

 

regards,

Jack

 

Hi Jack,

 

It might be my monitor/screen but that shade of PC12 looks nothing like what the colour was! The "late PC10" also looks far too green as well.

 

Always difficult to judge colour from a computer screen but the way those two are showing up, they don't look right.

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

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Thanks Tim, personally I would not know what the colours should look like digitally or otherwise.  The AK colours were posted to show how they labeled their PC10 paints as early and late - was there such a thing or is just a modern spin on WW1 colours?

 

regards,

Jack

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Worth bearing in mind, the current vougue leans towards a greenish shade of khaki, but the terrain most of these things flew over was largely churned up mud. So to my mind, greenish isn't it.  All commercially available PC10s I've seen are far too green, and most of the mixes too.  Can't easily get Gunze paints where I live, so haven't experimented with them.

 

Paul.

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5 hours ago, JackG said:

Thanks Tim, personally I would not know what the colours should look like digitally or otherwise.  The AK colours were posted to show how they labeled their PC10 paints as early and late - was there such a thing or is just a modern spin on WW1 colours?

 

regards,

Jack

 

Hi Jack,

 

There's a lot of evidence to suggest that the colour did change slightly from the beginning of the war to the end, not so much from the ingredients used but instead quantities and doping schemes being used. Once again though this is a bit like trying to catch a million butterflies in a greenhouse. There was so much variation due to the variables I put in my first post above that there just wasn't any kind of meaningful standardisation in the field. Anyone portraying PC10 as anything ranging from an olive drab to a chocolate brown can't really be told they've done it wrong. It's one of those things that modellers probably overthink!

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

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Yup.

Too funny watching these threads. 

Just paint it the color that appeals to you the most , and tell the naysayers they are wrong.

IMG-4822.jpg

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On 22/03/2019 at 00:00, JackG said:

...but then AK Interactive comes along and labels their PC10 as early and late, ignoring the above??

 

19 hours ago, JackG said:

The AK colours were posted to show how they labeled their PC10 paints as early and late - was there such a thing or is just a modern spin on WW1 colours?

I would treat anything AK has to say on a subject with caution, or look at other references as well. 

AK did a book, Real Colors of WW2,  which looks very impressive,  discussion of this came up in a thread here, and after a bit of searching it turned up a very cavalier attitude to input from a noted expert, and also on the paints tied in with this see here

Given the posts by  @Smithy who is a careful modeller and researcher,  I'd suspect it's cobblers from AK....

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7 hours ago, krow113 said:

Yup.

Too funny watching these threads. 

Just paint it the color that appeals to you the most , and tell the naysayers they are wrong.

IMG-4822.jpg

That looks very nice 👍 

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I use Misterkit for all my WWI colours.

I think it's pretty well accepted that PC10 was a green that faded towards brown, and PC12 started more towards brown. (Like the PC10 early shown above). Then there was also the tropical dope which was more of a chocolate brown. So basically do whatever you think looks good, there's no one left to prove you wrong!

Don't forget the primary reason for these dopes was fabric protection, not camouflage! 

 

Ian

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Thanks Guys

 

does anyone know of a piece of original fabric that might be helpful? 

 

I realise now though that this enjoyable debate will probably never end!

 

Regards

Andrew

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From what I read about PC10 was that the early aircraft were painted with a formula made with lamp black and ochre imported from Spain.  This produced a shade more towards the green side.  Later on because of problems obtaining Spanish ochre, British ochre was substituted. This tended to shift the color towards the khaki hue.

Anyone willing to experiment with mixing both types of ochre with lamp black using the original published ratios?

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