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Revell 1/72 Halifax Mk I / II into a Mk V


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1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

Yes, that's the early experimental ones, the other photo's you posted are the later production covers.

 

They are not covers. Those are the metal exhaust pipes.

 

 

Chris

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9 hours ago, dogsbody said:

They are not covers. Those are the metal exhaust pipes. 

Sorry Chris, those are definitely covers, you can see the exhaust manifolds in side them through the open fronts in the head on photo you posted

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.50862953.17947799

 

The givaway is the open ends at the front and rear of the manifold.

From the shape of them they appear to fit over the original saxaphone exhaust manifold as per the first photo you posted.

My query was whether you knew if the exhaust arrangement under the cover was different from the original saxaphone exhaust shown, they appear to be the same to me.

I generally rate Granger's drawings as good, but his depiction of this later type of exhaust and cover as you posted is poor, as a cursory comparison between photo and drawing will show.

@MarkH206 great job so far on your Halifax, apologies for the slight thread drift.

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13 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Sorry Chris, those are definitely covers, you can see the exhaust manifolds in side them through the open fronts in the head on photo you posted

large_000000.jpg?_ga=2.50862953.17947799

 

The givaway is the open ends at the front and rear of the manifold.

From the shape of them they appear to fit over the original saxaphone exhaust manifold as per the first photo you posted.

My query was whether you knew if the exhaust arrangement under the cover was different from the original saxaphone exhaust shown, they appear to be the same to me.

I generally rate Granger's drawings as good, but his depiction of this later type of exhaust and cover as you posted is poor, as a cursory comparison between photo and drawing will show.

@MarkH206 great job so far on your Halifax, apologies for the slight thread drift.

 

Yesterday, I went through all my Halifax refs and didn't find one thing on exhaust pipe covers, other than the asbestos ones.

 

45792595024_d037475f29_b.jpg

 

45792595044_0373a378fc_b.jpg

 

 

I'd be greatly interested in seeing your references to this.

 

 

Chris

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12 minutes ago, dogsbody said:

 

I'd be greatly interested in seeing your references to this.

Merrrick p56-57 describes the evolution of the close fitting shroud which you refer to as the later style exhaust. There's a good photo of the shroud in place on p58 and a photo of 3 shrouds removed from the exhaust on p60. Note the position of the end of the saxaphone is between cylinders 3 & 4 (half way down the engine) and the shroud extends back to end between cyls 4 & 5 (2/3 down the engine) which covers the flame exiting the saxaphone. Apart from a few experimental installations, as far as I'm aware, all merlin engined night flying Halifaxes were fitted with either the standard saxaphone exhaust (early) or a shrouded exhaust of some type (late). I'm still looking for photo's of the 4 port ejector and shroud referred to on p57.

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51 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Merrrick p56-57 describes the evolution of the close fitting shroud which you refer to as the later style exhaust. There's a good photo of the shroud in place on p58 and a photo of 3 shrouds removed from the exhaust on p60. Note the position of the end of the saxaphone is between cylinders 3 & 4 (half way down the engine) and the shroud extends back to end between cyls 4 & 5 (2/3 down the engine) which covers the flame exiting the saxaphone. Apart from a few experimental installations, as far as I'm aware, all merlin engined night flying Halifaxes were fitted with either the standard saxaphone exhaust (early) or a shrouded exhaust of some type (late). I'm still looking for photo's of the 4 port ejector and shroud referred to on p57.

 

I bow down to your superior intel. You are correct.

I didn't do a complete read of all the pages, just a quick scan and a look at photo captions. I know! Sloppy research on my part.

Thank you for providing the information.

Still, Revell got the look totally wrong. The outlet end of the sax should be curved, not the straight slot, slab-sided thing Revell provides.

 

46730598255_36113ea32e_b.jpg

 

Picture is from Halifax At War, by Brian J. Napier. Published by Ian Allen.

 

Chris

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8 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Thank you for providing the information.

No worries Chris, you're welcome. The saxaphone exhausts aren't well represented either by kit parts or drawings, you need to look at a lot of photos to pick up the subtle shape changes, and becausse of the engine position photo's from behind (especially detailed ones) are few and far between.

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Not so much an update - more an expression of frustration / confusion.

 

I have the AML resin upgrade set, well actually I have two as I originally thought my plane was a Mk II.  The box includes one of those propeller + tool sets :

LOr5qEvh.jpg

If you look closely at the diagram of the propeller blades on the left there is a small tab shown on top of each blade.

 

This isn't just flash, it's also a noticeably thicker piece of resin :

uof9CJ2h.jpg

 

All twenty-four of the blades in the two sets have this tab at the tip :

ZaIHUqzh.jpg

 

I have looked at reviews of similar propeller + tool sets and haven't seen anything like this. My interpretation of the diagram is to cut off the tab but I'm reluctant to start any surgery (which is clearly necessary) without understanding what I'm doing.

 

Can anyone tell me whether I'm supposed to just snip off those tabs (which would create a straight edge at the tip) or something else? I'm going round in circles on this.

Any help appreciated 

Mark

 

 

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3 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Wow! Looks like you've got a crap-ton of fine sanding ahead of you. I don't know how else you'll ever get those tabs off the tips.

 

 

Chris

Posting the pics has made me feel slightly better about it. I'll probably be found in my little room for a week  muttering 'one blade at a time, one blade at a time'

Mark

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10 hours ago, MarkH206 said:

Not so much an update - more an expression of frustration / confusion.

 

I have the AML resin upgrade set, well actually I have two as I originally thought my plane was a Mk II.  The box includes one of those propeller + tool sets :

LOr5qEvh.jpg

If you look closely at the diagram of the propeller blades on the left there is a small tab shown on top of each blade.

 

This isn't just flash, it's also a noticeably thicker piece of resin :

uof9CJ2h.jpg

 

All twenty-four of the blades in the two sets have this tab at the tip :

ZaIHUqzh.jpg

 

I have looked at reviews of similar propeller + tool sets and haven't seen anything like this. My interpretation of the diagram is to cut off the tab but I'm reluctant to start any surgery (which is clearly necessary) without understanding what I'm doing.

 

Can anyone tell me whether I'm supposed to just snip off those tabs (which would create a straight edge at the tip) or something else? I'm going round in circles on this.

Any help appreciated 

Mark

 

 

Looking at those pics, I'm guessing the tabs are there to prevent short moulding of the tips and you have to carve/file the shape? I haven't even given the ones I've got a good look yet!

 

Davey.

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18 hours ago, DaveyGair said:

Looking at those pics, I'm guessing the tabs are there to prevent short moulding of the tips and you have to carve/file the shape? I haven't even given the ones I've got a good look yet!

 

Davey.

Could be - although other providers of these 'props plus tool' sets manage without the resin lump on the tip. Looks like it'll need very careful work with a sharp knife and some very very gentle sanding. 

Mark

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Looking at the photo's it looks like the tip tabs are moulded on the back side of the blade?

If so a bit of gentle sanding with a sanding stick on the back side of the tab should see the correct tip profile appear as you sand flush to the back of the rest of the blade, a bit like sanding off the waste from a vacform.

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5 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

Looking at the photo's it looks like the tip tabs are moulded on the back side of the blade?

If so a bit of gentle sanding with a sanding stick on the back side of the tab should see the correct tip profile appear as you sand flush to the back of the rest of the blade, a bit like sanding off the waste from a vacform.

Yes, the lump is on the flat side which will help as you say.  The blade at the tip is very thin so not much margin for error but that's good positive thinking - thanks. 

Mark

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52 minutes ago, MarkH206 said:

Yes, the lump is on the flat side which will help as you say.  The blade at the tip is very thin so not much margin for error but that's good positive thinking - thanks. 

Mark

Just had a look at the blades in my set Mark, most of the excess flash had broken off but still left a crisply shaped tip, I gently 'snapped' off one on another blade and it left the tip intact, so I reckon there's not much to worry about. I think it's just a bit of 'engineering' of the mould to help the resin flow to the tip.

 

Davey.

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16 hours ago, DaveyGair said:

Just had a look at the blades in my set Mark, most of the excess flash had broken off but still left a crisply shaped tip, I gently 'snapped' off one on another blade and it left the tip intact, so I reckon there's not much to worry about. I think it's just a bit of 'engineering' of the mould to help the resin flow to the tip.

 

Davey.

That's interesting - are you saying you snapped off the lump ?  Doesn't that leave a straight edge at the tip? I've been working on the assumption I had to sand the lump back to give a clean tip. In my second pic above it seems to me you can see the profile of the blade behind the lump - so the lump part of the blade looks like it should be the tip.

 

Is a picture possible?

Edited by MarkH206
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2 hours ago, MarkH206 said:

That's interesting - are you saying you snapped off the lump ?  Doesn't that leave a straight edge at the tip? I've been working on the assumption I had to sand the lump back to give a clean tip. In my second pic above it seems to me you can see the profile of the blade behind the lump - so the lump part of the blade looks like it should be the tip.

 

Is a picture possible?

If it helps, before and after shots of the last blade with the flash still intact.  I snapped off the flash which leaves the tip intact, I reckon the thicker portion will sand off leaving the shape of the tip. I'll get back to you on that one! Or I'll leave you to give it go :winkgrin:

 

DSC_0010DSC_0013DSC_0014

 

 

Davey.

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I've had a further look at these prop blades.

 

The blade on the left shows the tab on the tip - coloured red. The blade on the right has been sanded (gently) to remove the tab to the same level as the rest of the blade and some flash around the edge removed.

 

I'm not sure about the resulting shape of the blade if I trimmed or snapped that red tab off completely.

CEr5OWUh.jpg

 

I think I'm going with the sanding option as the right hand blade looks ok to me. Still some cleaning up to do around the base.

Mark

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We posted at the same time and it looks like we agree on the approach. Your set has a lot more flash than mine and my blades are in sets of six rather than your three but the tab on the tip looks the same.

 

So removing the flash and gentle sanding on the tab works!

Mark

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I borrowed an idea from a Halifax build on another forum and installed the ailerons upside down. This transfers the gap that appears, if you follow the instructions, from the top of the wing to the underside. I'll probably deal with the gap later. Probably.

1KN80KKh.jpg

 

I attached the wings to the fuselage spars, again a good firm fit and, all of a sudden, there's an aeroplane on my desk.

eT6tg9Nh.jpg

 

Some might even say it's starting to look like a Halifax.

cD6Tq1wh.jpg

 

Then some attention to the propellers. As a reminder this shows the kit parts with an AML replacement - a vast improvement.

SQImx8Kh.jpg

 

I was really put off by the lump of resin on the tip of all the blades and because I have two sets, with spares, I can confirm that I have thirty blades with lumpy tips.

 

I also started work on removing the hubs and spinners from the casting blocks. That threw up another problem.

IQ76Nlyh.jpg

The spinners all had at least one flaw - shown with the red marks. From this set I decided I could only use the spinner top left and the bottom two are just awful. What quality control do these guys have?

 

Again I was fortunate to have a second set so I was able to get four decent spinners together. The hubs on the other hand are nice pieces of work - of course most of that will be hidden by the spinners. The hubs and spinners fit together nicely.

 

I gently sanded the tips of the blades to remove that lump and prepared fifteen - so I had spares. Of the fifteen, four had pin holes inside the tips (air bubbles maybe) which I filled with Mr Surfacer and one had a hole right through which is in the bin. At the end of all that I have this lot from two AML sets:

gjZw7x8h.jpg

 

Some more work on the two part saxophone exhausts. I've found it tricky to get these looking neat. Not helped by me attaching them at the wrong angle to begin with and having to pull them apart and start again. This is them in progress for a second time with blobs of Mr Surfacer to hide the join.

4ToW54kh.jpg

 

And one mostly cleaned up.

XpJ23MNh.jpg

 

Attaching the vertical tail parts together. Four parts to each - a good firm fit. My Mk V probably had these rectangular fins rather than the triangular version.

1WMq879h.jpg

 

Next the internal bomb bay doors with the hinges attached. Revell has the doors as one part so to display the doors open there's some surgery needed but the part is clearly marked where you should cut.

e2vnEAKh.jpg

 

And those internal doors attached to the fuselage.

Qh8iQaIh.jpg

 

Lastly, for this post, the external bomb bay doors attached. These are moulded as part of the fuselage and not mentioned in the instructions but the fuselage is clearly marked where you should cut. I did that at the beginning of the build. On reflection I should have thinned those down a bit before reattaching them. Think I'll live with it.

O3GBYDoh.jpg

There's some small pieces of scrap card between the internal and external doors so they don't appear stuck together.

 

Next I'm returning to those propellers.

See you soon.

Mark

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Now she's ready for some paint following a clean with isopropanol alcohol.

Ydt7aiph.jpg

 

Then black Ultimate acrylic primer followed by Xtracrylix British Dark Earth (why 'British' rather than 'RAF' I'm wondering) on the upper surfaces

XjRHgyOh.jpg

The pic's a bit dark - sorry about that.

 

And then starting the masking. I'm not brave enough to do freehand camouflage so I mask carefully and rather slowly as I tend to get bored with it. Masking is definitely the slowest part of the build for me but I know that its worth the time. 

 

You might notice that the nose is missing. That's because I pushed in one of the side windows during the handling. I gently removed the nose and replaced the side window. Hopefully no damage done but I'm worried that it might have been working loose during my airbrushing. The inside of the nose looks ok so I'm slightly hopeful. Removing the masks will reveal all I suppose. Anyway here she is as of this morning.

YzAeGMqh.jpg

 

More masking now.

Back soon.

Mark

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  • 3 weeks later...

Making some progress again.  The painting stage took many sessions as my airbrushing skills aren't up to freehand camouflage. 

 

Here's a few pics to show that I have been doing something recently.

 

Masking phase 1 done.

AIoU45Zh.jpg

 

Dark Green applied.

kG1BFu7h.jpg

 

Masking phase 2 done.

t9RjeKVh.jpg

 

Undersides done in xtracrylix panzer grey with some night black added and the masks removed. Hardly any touching up needed thankfully.

ooHnQYQh.jpg

 

And here she is with decals applied and standing on her own legs (well two of them anyway).

JlbQSRzh.jpg

For reasons I don't quite understand I had trouble in attaching the undercarriage. Something in there isn't properly aligned - probably going back to when I attached the nacelles - so I ended up using more ca glue than I normally would like. But who's going to see that, right?

 

I can almost see the finish line on this one.

More soon

Mark 

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The last few steps now.

 

I removed all the Eduard masks from the transparencies and started to add the remaining bits (saxophone exhausts and a few external delicate thingies). Unfortunately with all that handling I managed to push in one of the fuselage side windows - for the third time. So again the nose comes off and I fiddle around until I got that window back in place. Nose back on and no damage done. 

 

PzNUmRah.jpg

 

That left just these to attach. I think I made a good call in leaving the tail fins until last as that made handling easier.

qhiwQk5h.jpg

 

I'm pleased with the turrets which really benefitted from the Eduard masks and have a neat p.e. panel set between the guns - you can very nearly see it in this:

6AGdvnYh.jpg

 

Exhaust stains done with pastels and then she's done. Just like that.

4XCAqc9h.jpg

 

Q1oadKSh.jpg

 

So that's the end of this work in progress build.

 

Next some photos for 'Ready for Inspection' and then something small I think. The Halifax has taken almost three months and something like 120 hours (yes, rather sadly, I do keep track) so that Arma Hobby Hurricane may well be next.

 

Thanks for watching and thanks again to all who helped with my daft questions in the WW2 sub-forum.

Mark

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