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Nachtwulf

Tempest Mk. V wingtip light question

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Are the wingtip light on the Tempest Mk. V clear covers with a colored bulbs or colored covers with a clear bub? :shrug: I have seen black and white photos that seem to suggest both, but I thought I'd seek advice from those with more knowledge.

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Tinted covers on all my references. If you have a pic clearly showing anything else I would be interested in seeing it.

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That's interesting - as the Mk V at IWM, and the Mk II both have clear covers. As does the Typhoon, and the Sea Fury. Id thought they were tinted too - so whats going in?

cheers

Jonners

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A quick look through the Valiant book by Richard A Franks shows a coloured lens on the Mk.II and a clear lens on the TT Mk.5, these are just two museum aircraft though. I have looked through the rest of the book and it is very difficult to tell from photos which are clear and which are coloured lenses, so it's your choice, unless Chris Thomas comes along wit the real info.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

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In that lovely color shot of brand-spankee-new Mk.IIs the starboard light (cover) appears to be clear- I can see no hint of green/blue.

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5 hours ago, Work In Progress said:

Tinted covers on all my references. If you have a pic clearly showing anything else I would be interested in seeing it.

hawker-tempest-mk-v-fighter-no-3-squadro

330px-Hawker_Tempest_V_from_below_1944.j

I had found another picture last night showing a line up of Mk.V's on the ramp at the factory which clearly showed clear covers but I can't find it

now! :wall:

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45758079152_d7605389a3_b.jpg

 

 

Hmmm, Just a thought,but could it depend on which factory made them? The pics I provided show JN serial numbers and clear covers while the EJ serial has  tinted covers.  And whats with the gun ports? Not yet installed? Oh, wait, maybe just a rag stuffed in the port.

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Those JNs are pretty conclusively see-though. As this thread developed I did wonder briefly if the clear covers were a post-war adoption, but evidently not.

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13 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Those JNs are pretty conclusively see-though. As this thread developed I did wonder briefly if the clear covers were a post-war adoption, but evidently not.

And here is another JN with clear covers. At least they look clear to me.

https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/uk/raf/tempest/Tempest_Mk_V_JN766_486_Castle_Camps_feb44.jpg

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As an interesting aside - I've always wondered which was better logistically and serviceability wise. Coloured bulbs with clear covers or vice versa?
It's one of those questions that lolls around at the back of the brain.

cheers

Jonners
 

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13 minutes ago, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:

As an interesting aside - I've always wondered which was better logistically and serviceability wise. Coloured bulbs with clear covers or vice versa?
It's one of those questions that lolls around at the back of the brain.

cheers

Jonners
 

I would say clear bulbs - supposing the covers are handed it would mean that you have to get the correct side, correct type cover anyway but could go with a standard bulb. Further more I suppose the bulb will mostly "break", so having just one type of bulb would be easier to handle I guess. Mind you - this is purely my guess 😉

Rene

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4 hours ago, Caerbannog said:

I would say clear bulbs - supposing the covers are handed it would mean that you have to get the correct side, correct type cover anyway but could go with a standard bulb. Further more I suppose the bulb will mostly "break", so having just one type of bulb would be easier to handle I guess. Mind you - this is purely my guess 😉

Rene

I agree with that in principle. Conventional filament bulbs are notoriously short-lived in small aeroplanes: they hate vibration. Plus you need the stock of white bulbs anyway for the rear light, so why have three different effectively consumable items when one will do? 

Against that in practice: who ever flew a Tempest at night anyway?

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7 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Against that in practice: who ever flew a Tempest at night anyway?

The FIU I believe and I believe Roly Beaumont did too...

 

Back in the day when I worked on aircraft that used conventional filaments one type of filament would be used in all of the navigation lights so coloured covers seemed better logistically.  There's definitely evidence in the photos of clear and or coloured covers on Tempests which just shows how important it is to get a photo of the aircraft you're modelling...   ...all those tiny details.

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3 hours ago, Wez said:

The FIU I believe and I believe Roly Beaumont did too...

 

Back in the day when I worked on aircraft that used conventional filaments one type of filament would be used in all of the navigation lights so coloured covers seemed better logistically.  There's definitely evidence in the photos of clear and or coloured covers on Tempests which just shows how important it is to get a photo of the aircraft you're modelling...   ...all those tiny details.

My experince as well. One bulb, colored lenses where color mattered. 

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On 3/19/2019 at 3:47 PM, Jon Kunac-Tabinor said:

As an interesting aside - I've always wondered which was better logistically and serviceability wise. Coloured bulbs with clear covers or vice versa?
It's one of those questions that lolls around at the back of the brain.

cheers

Jonners
 

the filament lamp is standard with clear glass under a coloured lens. In this case the fairing is clear.
In the case of coloured fairing there is not a lens over the bulb.

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Thanks to all who replied. I have decided to go with clear covers and colored bulbs/ lenses since I have found proof of this set up on Series I aircraft as in the pictures above. Does anyone have a close up of the museums TT Mk.V  wingtip? I am now trying to find out which side the bulb protrudes from under the clear cover.

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12 minutes ago, Nachtwulf said:

Does anyone have a close up of the museums TT Mk.V  wingtip?

 

nv778-25.jpg

from here

http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/indetail/walkarounds/298-walkaround-hawker-tempest-mk-v-tt-nv778

 

LA607 was the tempest II prototype, and looks mostly unrestored,. see the wheel wells

http://www.hawkertempest.se/index.php/indetail/walkarounds/296-walkaround-hawker-tempest-mk-ii-la607

 

HTH

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30 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

Excellent! Thank you Troy!

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What about Spitfire with clipped wings? Did they have clear or coloured wing tip light fairings?

 

/André

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Andre,

 

Troy will know for sure, but looking at numerous photos, it appears the wingtip nav lights had colored lenses on the clipped wing Spits, but take note that Mk XII Spitfires had no wingtip nav lights. I have also seen  photos of Mk Vc's with clipped wings that appear to have no wingtip nav lights- soooo, as always, try to find a photo of the Spitfire you plan to build, if possible! I also seem to recall that there were two variations of wingtips fitted to clipped wing Spits- one might not have had provision for lights, but I can't remember where I read that- sorry! See links below for two Mk Vc's that had clipped wings but no wingtip lights.

Mike

 

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Supermarine_Spitfire_Mk_V_and_pilots_of_No._40_Squadron,_South_African_Air_Force,_at_Gabes_in_Tunisia,_April_1943._TR1030.jpg

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/WWIIplanes/comments/4jpbqk/clipped_wing_spitfire_making_a_hard_turn/

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

I also seem to recall that there were two variations of wingtips fitted to clipped wing Spits- one might not have had provision for lights, but I can't remember where I read that- sorry! See links below for two Mk Vc's that had clipped wings but no wingtip lights.

It's worth remembering, when looking at photos of clipped-wing Spitfires, that some were clipped "in the field" as a result of damage. My Dad flew VIII's and IX's with 253 Sqn in Italy and Yugoslavia: he mentioned that the field modification for a damaged standard wingtip was to remove both wingtips and replace each with a 2" x 4" strip of wood, shaped in place to match the aerofoil. Functionally, it was the same as the Supermarine clipped wing, but Dad mentioned that you lost your nav lights.

 

When you're a long way from the nearest M.U. and you're keeping aircraft serviceable, local mods may vary from production!

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My reason for asking is that I an building an Israeli 1/72 eduard Spitfire IXe with clipped wings and that kit has clear wingtips that can be left clear or be coloured if needed...

 

Cheers / André

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12 hours ago, Andre B said:

My reason for asking is that I an building an Israeli 1/72 eduard Spitfire IXe with clipped wings and that kit has clear wingtips that can be left clear or be coloured if needed...

 

Cheers / André

That's a very good point, Andre. I tried to just look at photos of actual wartime operational clipped-wing Spits before I posted, as you really can't use any of the restored aircraft as examples of what the originals looked like. As I recall, the Israeli's got their Spitfires from more than one source and were reconditioned/overhauled, so who knows whether they had clear or colored lenses on the wingtip lights- if they had them at all! Do you have a photo of the one you want to model? Maybe @Troy Smith can help you...sure wish Edgar were still with us, as he could quote you book and verse! Are you doing the all-black IXe?

Mike

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Hello Mike,

 

I got Sky's Decals IAF decals with decals for both Avia-199, Spitfire's (including the black  one) and 51D Mustang's.

 

For the moment I am not building the black Spitfire IXe as it has the pointier wingtips. I am intended to build one of the 60 (?) dark green/ocean grey/medium sea grey clipped wing Spitfire's bought from Checkoslovakia 1948. 30 more IXc and IXe where bought from Italy in 1951. But pictures are rare.

 

Cheers / André

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