Best kit for a Canadair Sabre F.4 in 1/72

[RidgeRunner]

On 11/13/2019 at 4:08 PM, RidgeRunner said:

err... I just looked for my RedRoo wings and I cant find them :(...................................

Phew ..... a rummage in the loft revealed the Red Roo wings, and some other stuff I'd forgotten about :). I got them out of the box and they seem to be pretty good :).

 

Martin

 

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

I'm part way through reading Duncan Curtis' book on the RAF Sabre which has prompted me to dig out various Sabres from the stash and other references from the bookshelves, and have a search for other RAF Sabre threads and builds. I was particularly interested in finding the various pros and cons of the kits, in particular the shortcomings of the Airfix kit. After a fair bit of reading measuring and comparing I can't find any mention of the main shortcoming (both literally and figuratively) - the Airfix kit fuselage is some 3.5mm (scale 10") shorter than the Fujimi and Hobbycraft kits I have. The Airfix kit fuselage matches the nose/cockpit area and the rear fuselage behind the break for engine removal of the Fujimi/Hobbycraft kits, the missing length appears to be in the mid fuselage above the wing. As the wings have the same root chord, this has the effect of putting the leading edge further forward and trailing edge further aft on the Airfix kit, or alternatively give the appearance of a shorter nose and rear fuselage. 

Published dimensions vary a bit but 37'6" appears to be the most common quoted = 158.75mm at 1/72 scale, this would make the Fujimi kit slightly long, and the Airfix kit short. 

On their own this might not look too bad, but putting an Airfix kit next to a Fujimi or Hobbycraft kit would probably make it look rather short and stubby.

Any views on which is closer to the correct length?

[Shalako]

@Dave Swindell: Have you read the following topic from arc forums? http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/184207-sabre-fuselages-in-172/

 

There is also the following website that compares three 1/72 kits (Heller, Fujimi, and Hobbycraft): http://www.blindbatnews.com/2011/10/kit-bashing-heller-fujimi-hobbycraft-f-86-sabre-kits-compared/8203

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Dave Swindell]

8 minutes ago, Shalako said:

@Dave Swindell: Have you read the following topic from arc forums? http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/184207-sabre-fuselages-in-172/

 

There is also the following website that compares three 1/72 kits (Heller, Fujimi, and Hobbycraft): http://www.blindbatnews.com/2011/10/kit-bashing-heller-fujimi-hobbycraft-f-86-sabre-kits-compared/8203

 

Cheers,

Bill

Hi Bill

Yes, both those links were checked, and I've just had a re-read. Both predate the issue of the Airfix kit, and whilst both discuss pro's and cons of the kits reviewed there is no comment on fuselage length. Rechecking the photo's in those threads it does confirm that the Heller and Fujimi kits are pretty close in length. My Heller kit is built up (234 Sqn from Modeldecals, hard wing approximation slightly short on span due to a bit of confusion on my part at the time as to what the kit wing represented), so difficult to directly compare with fuselages from the stash.

[Julien]

The Airfix kit has a few errors with regards the wing fences and the tank positions which are fixable, the area around the cockpit and the windscreen is not though.  I wont be trading any of my Academy or Fujimi ones in for one. The new Italeri boxing of the Fujimi kit is well worth buying. 

[Shalako]

46 minutes ago, Julien said:

I wont be trading any of my Academy or Fujimi ones in for one.

Oops! Too late for me😬 In fact, I have also trade my 1/48 Academy, which gives the Sabre's engine support bed.

[Dave Swindell]

1 hour ago, Julien said:

The Airfix kit has a few errors with regards the wing fences and the tank positions which are fixable, the area around the cockpit and the windscreen is not though.  I wont be trading any of my Academy or Fujimi ones in for one. The new Italeri boxing of the Fujimi kit is well worth buying. 

Thanks for that @Julien I've found previous references to all those, but nothing referring to the short fuselage compared to other kits which I found strange. If the Fujimi kit is the correct length (or near enough) I might be tempted with an Italeri repop.

[Sabrejet]

1 hour ago, Julien said:

The Airfix kit has a few errors with regards the wing fences and the tank positions which are fixable, the area around the cockpit and the windscreen is not though.  I wont be trading any of my Academy or Fujimi ones in for one. The new Italeri boxing of the Fujimi kit is well worth buying. 

 

+1 for me too: the Airfix kit has too many inaccuracies compared to the other two. For me, the Fujimi kit just wins it, but it's a close call. They also score over the Airfix kit by being far more delicate in their mouldings.

 

And that RAF Sabre book is quite good, but it needs an update!

[Shalako]

1 hour ago, Dave Swindell said:

Thanks for that @Julien I've found previous references to all those, but nothing referring to the short fuselage compared to other kits which I found strange. If the Fujimi kit is the correct length (or near enough) I might be tempted with an Italeri repop.

In 1/72 I don't think the difference could be that big. Perhaps by adding 2mm right where the tail connects to the main fuselage will fix the issue. Just a thought.

[Dave Swindell]

22 minutes ago, Shalako said:

In 1/72 I don't think the difference could be that big. Perhaps by adding 2mm right where the tail connects to the main fuselage will fix the issue. Just a thought.

The Tamiya 1/72 Spitfires are about 1mm short in the rear fuselage and they've been castigated for it. The Airfix Sabre fuselage is about 3.5 mm short in the middle compared to the Fujimi & Hobbycraft kits, which will give the impression of both front and rear being short by nearly double the Tamiya discrepancy, and as far as I can see nobody has previously commented.....

[Tony Edmundson]

the short fuselage of the Airfix kit hasn't stopped me from building a couple, albeit with a bunch of better Heller parts added;

 

Yes, when I did that wings & fuselage comparison at ARC, it was well before the Airfix kit was on the horizon.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Shalako]

WOW! The Yugoslavian Sabre is FANTASTIC!!!

[Sabrejet]

The Airfix kit's issues (other than those already stated) extend to incorrectly-shaped drop tanks (they appear symmetrical about a horizontal centerline when viewed from the side); canopy and windshield shape (particularly the shallow side frame on the canopy); strangely-shaped upper nose section (it's not a smooth curve) and an awkward bulge at the front end of the tailplane aerodynamic fairings when viewed in profile from around 2/10 o'clock. Plus the additional clunkiness and deep panel lines.

 

You can correct most/all of these issues with filler, sanding and aftermarket canopy etc, but you shouldn't need to. By comparison you don't need to do any of that with the Academy/Fujimi kit - just correcting the shape of the speed brake well. 

 

None of the above will build a narrow-chord Sabre 4, and you'll need to do various adjustments for fuselage vent/intake panels to do a 6-3-wing aircraft, but the Fujimi/Academy kits are a better starting point and (the clincher for me) give a finished model which looks like an accurate Sabre. Most folks won't notice the odd millimetre or degree of wing sweep difference, but they are likely to spot things which are obviously the wrong shape or spoil the sharp lines of the subject matter.

[Bedders]

For what it's worth, here's my recently completed Fujimi adaptation: 

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235091527-172-canadair-sabre-f4

 

Justin

[Sabrejet]

7 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

....but the Fujimi/Academy kits are a better starting point ....

 

Whoops - my bad; for 'Academy', read Hobbycraft! (in 1/72 at least)

[Shalako]

1 hour ago, Sabrejet said:

 

Whoops - my bad; for 'Academy', read Hobbycraft! (in 1/72 at least)

So, its Fujimi/Hobbycraft. Checked!

Edited April 14, 2021 by Shalako

[Dave Swindell]

13 hours ago, Tony Edmundson said:

the short fuselage of the Airfix kit hasn't stopped me from building a couple, albeit with a bunch of better Heller parts added;

Cheers, Tony

And very nice they are too, Tony. I May get round to building one of mine, but I think I'll start with the Fujimi and Hobbycraft ones.

11 hours ago, Bedders said:

For what it's worth, here's my recently completed Fujimi adaptation: 

 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235091527-172-canadair-sabre-f4

 

Justin

IV Sqn is on my build list Justin, you've produced a fine model there - did you do a build thread?

4 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

 

Whoops - my bad; for 'Academy', read Hobbycraft! (in 1/72 at least)

 

2 hours ago, Shalako said:

So, its Fujimi/Hobbycraft. Checked!

The Fujimi hard wing F30 kit has been re-issued by Italeri

Both Hobbycraft slatted 6-3 wing and hard 6-3 wing kits have been re-issued by Academy

[Shalako]

19 minutes ago, Dave Swindell said:

The Fujimi hard wing F30 kit has been re-issued by Italeri

Both Hobbycraft slatted 6-3 wing and hard 6-3 wing kits have been re-issued by Academy

Decisions! Decisions!

[Terry1954]

I fixed the wing pylon and wing fence issues on my Airfix Sabre, but nowt else. It doesn't build up too bad as others have said. Airfix on left, Hasegawa/Tasman Avon on right.

 

 

 

Terry

[Bedders]

@Dave Swindell Dave, I didn't I'm afraid: recently I've found that doing a WIP has been the kiss of death to getting the thing finished...! J 

[Dave Swindell]

9 hours ago, Bedders said:

@Dave Swindell Dave, I didn't I'm afraid: recently I've found that doing a WIP has been the kiss of death to getting the thing finished...! J 

Hmmm, I know that feeling well.....

[RidgeRunner]

On 4/14/2021 at 9:54 PM, Bedders said:

@Dave Swindell Dave, I didn't I'm afraid: recently I've found that doing a WIP has been the kiss of death to getting the thing finished...! J 

I agree with that!

[Andre B]

The HobbyBoss wings was mentioned. Has someone tried that way?

 

Cheers / Andre 

[Tony Edmundson]

the HobbyBoss Sabre, IMHO, has worse shape problems than the Airfix kit.   One release comes with a hard wing, yes, you can paint it as an RAF machine, but it is far from the best option.

 

Tony