Nordic GB Chat

[trickyrich]

17 hours ago, Angus Tura said:

Ach! I was just thinking about it. I had planned a couple of these:

 

 

in the words of our beloved leader.......now everyone altogether now......."build them all!!!"" 

10 hours ago, Whirly said:

Hello, would like to join this group build in the following weeks. Just to be sure I wonder if this subject would be eligible: swedish manufacturer, swedish air force, only ETPS is out, right?

 

Mmmm this one does tick all the right boxes!!! Go for it.

9 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Gotta tell you guys that you made the Nordic GB fever reach in me a temperature that put all my build plans for the next month in new order! I have plenty of time until "my" Lancaster Family Type GB begins in the end of February   

 

Now that's the spirit, now if you were using a spreadsheet you could have all your builds for the year all nicely sorted out........spreadsheets are your best friend. 

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

I've never build a plane in Nordic markings.

 

Will try to find something at the  convention next month.

I will be a WW-2 plane.

 

Hope to be able to join.

There are plenty of interesting choices for this GB, so it's a good chance to expand you horizons.

[Vingtor]

On 1/13/2020 at 9:58 PM, trickyrich said:

... but he suggested that to be a wee bit more inclusive with the title of the GB we change it to Nordic GB.

Nordic is more correct.

 

Including Iceland and Finland to Scandinavia would be to say that Scotland and Wales are parts of England.... 🤔

 

 

[Torbjorn]

1 hour ago, Vingtor said:

 

Including Iceland and Finland to Scandinavia would be to say that Scotland and Wales are parts of England.... 🤔

 

 

No, that is not analogous*. “Scandinavia” is very much a matter of definition, that  changes and has changed with time and place. Finland was historically included in the term when used in Sweden when it was resurrected in the 19th century and still is by some people and in some fields. The usage is different in English, where it is often used in the same manner as “Norden” is used in Swedish today (a term which incidently did not include Finland previously). The term “Norden”/“the Nordic countries” has not stuck outside Scandinavia, which is expected since it is quite egocentric (it literally means “The North”) as well as cumbersome. 

 

Sorry for digressing,  but I moan inside when people go picky on a term as fluid as Scandinavia. edit: the wiki pages in English and Swedish are quite good
 

 

*) a somewhat better analogy is whether or not you include Ireland in the British isles - except that there is no controversy with “Scandinavia”, just disagreement.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Torbjorn

[PeterB]

Ooops - duplicate post.

 

Pete

Edited January 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Christer A]

14 hours ago, PeterB said:

Whilst we are waiting to start, can anybody help me with the colours and markings of the Lansen. I tend to think of them in the green over NMF scheme though I believe  a few went into the green/blue "Draken" scheme towards the end of their service (electronic warfare version?). However my Heller kit is a fairly early boxing and offers an A32A attack version of J 17 in all over NMF with a red "A" on a blue tail, and a green/NMF A32 C recce version of J 11 coded yellow 06, both supposedly in 1960. I think they changed the decs in later boxings.

 

I would prefer a green/NMF version, and whilst I do not mind doing the A32 C, I would prefer to do the A32 A version, but can't be bothered to pay out for new decals. I assume J 17 would have changed to green/NMF before long so would I get away with the red "A" on that scheme or would I have to change the markings? I still have the Rb04 anti ship missiles from my Airfix Viggen and was considering putting them on the Lansen "A"as it needs something under the wings. I already have a belly tank.

 

Any thoughts/comments and pictures would be welcome. Oh and thanks to @vppelt68 for reminding me about the Lancaster STGB - I am going to have to watch my schedules if I am going to get the Lincoln conversion done as well as this GB, not to mention the "In the Navy" one as well..

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Hi Pete!

It should pose no problems painting an A32A (first A stands for Attack) in Olive green over NMF, in fact that is the standard paintjob for them.

However, you can use the red A on the tail, but the Flottiljsiffra 17 in black must then be yellow. Perhaps you can change the S32C marking from 11 to 17?

 

 

[PeterB]

Thanks Christer,

 

If they were just plain yellow with no outline I can sort that out fairly easily. Most of the pics I have seen show yellow letters/numbers, but from what you say I presume red is OK for the aircraft letter. Some pics show a coloured band round the nose as well - looks like your B&W pic of "H" has one. Was there some sort of colour code for the "Squadron" markings? Also, the decs provide a "Shield" type crest for the silver version - would that have been on the green version as well - can't see it in your colour pic but there seems to be something there in the B&W one. Finally - is that red patch behind the air brakes a standard feature?

 

This is the kit decs.

 

This is an area where my information is very limited so it is great to get some "local knowledge".

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited January 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Christer A]

Uggh, those Decals are really old and out of register 😢

I would heartily recommend these ones as a replacement

http://www.mooserepublic.se/product/a-32a-s-32c-lansen-172/

They're not cheap but atleast look good.

 

If that option is out then we look at option 2.

Disclaimer, markings guidelines were just guidelines and not absolute, so deviations exists. Always to find a photo...

Anyway, the crest that you have there is valid (of sorts) for any aircraft from F17. Sometimes they were used, sometimes not 🙂

I think that (don't have any references at work) when a letter is used to show the aircraft ID, you also have a colored band around the nose. The color of the letter and band is the same, and usually this followed the designated colors of the Division, red for 1:st squadron, blue for second etc, but this was also no strict adherence...

 

The red patch started life as an exercise marking, but then it kind of lived on. However, that was after the introduction of code numbers for aircraft id, so that is some 5-8 years after they stopped using letters.

[PeterB]

Thanks Christer,

 

That was really helpful. I guess I will have to buy some new decs after all as I had not noticed the register problem🙁.

 

Pete

Edited January 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Tim R-T-C]

Does anyone know a good source of info on the Finnish AF DO-17s post war?

 

I know the last was scrapped in 1952, but were they still operating up to that date and what function did they have?

 

Thanks.

[vppelt68]

Finnish Airforce History- series book SIH 2 about our Do 17 and Ju 88 bombers is in my shelf, mind you if I take a look at it only later tonight? Not that many Dorniers survived past 1944...

[PhantomBigStu]

Concerned over the dark blue on the draken I’m building, IPMS lists it as 35042 and it doesn’t look right more of dark blue grey than blue like 35042. Any able to help?

[PhantomBigStu]

Concerned over the dark blue on the draken I’m building, IPMS lists it as 35042 and it doesn’t look right more of dark blue grey than blue like 35042. Any able to help?

[Rich B]

29 minutes ago, Tim R-T-C said:

Does anyone know a good source of info on the Finnish AF DO-17s post war?

 

I know the last was scrapped in 1952, but were they still operating up to that date and what function did they have?

 

Thanks.

The 5 surviving Do-17Z's were used in the aerial mapping role following the war. The last three were retired in 1948 with the signing of the 1947 Paris Peace Treaties that dictated that Finland could have no aircraft with internal bomb bays. They were all scrapped by 1952.

 

Cheers,

Rich

[Christer A]

31 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Concerned over the dark blue on the draken I’m building, IPMS lists it as 35042 and it doesn’t look right more of dark blue grey than blue like 35042. Any able to help?

Well, another match would be 35045. Both are quite dark with a slight blue tint.

However, draken faded a lot and this Dark blue was almost Purple sometimes.

Humbrol 77 is a good start, but I would do it darker than that.

 

Edit:

This list now referenses hu 181 or Hu 182

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-federal-standard/

Edited January 15, 2020 by Christer A

[vppelt68]

1 hour ago, Tim R-T-C said:

Does anyone know a good source of info on the Finnish AF DO-17s post war?

 

I know the last was scrapped in 1952, but were they still operating up to that date and what function did they have?

 

Thanks.

Survivors past the war were DN:s

-52 (Z-3, last flown 15.9.48 w/o 1.10.52), 

-55 (Z-3, destroyed in accident 22.5.47),

-57 (Z-1, last flown 24.7.46 w/o 11.12.52),

-58 (Z-3, last flown 13.9.48 w/o 1.19.52) and

-64 (Z-3, last flown 15.9.48 w/o 1.10.52).

All wore Finnish warpaint, yellow theater markings were painted over in September -44. Finnish roundels were applied in April -45.

One Z-1 was used as instructional aircraft and three Z-3 were used in photomapping (correct term?). Three to four planes were operational in the Lapland War against Germans, actually one of the Dorniers flew the last combat sortie so far of the Finnish Air Force!

Hope this helps, V-P

[PhantomBigStu]

15 minutes ago, Christer A said:

Well, another match would be 35045. Both are quite dark with a slight blue tint.

However, draken faded a lot and this Dark blue was almost Purple sometimes.

Humbrol 77 is a good start, but I would do it darker than that.

 

Edit:

This list now referenses hu 181 or Hu 182

https://www.ipmsstockholm.se/home/urbans-color-reference-charts-part-i/urbans-colour-reference-charts-federal-standard/

Thanks though not being an enamel user that doesn’t help me much 

[Enzo the Magnificent]

5 hours ago, Christer A said:

 

That is just such a cool photo! 

[vppelt68]

Here's something to remind us that all threats are definitely not in the past but very much present even today. Quite cool clip again.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

1 hour ago, Rich B said:

The 5 surviving Do-17Z's were used in the aerial mapping role following the war. The last three were retired in 1948 with the signing of the 1947 Paris Peace Treaties that dictated that Finland could have no aircraft with internal bomb bays. They were all scrapped by 1952.

 

Cheers,

Rich

 

59 minutes ago, vppelt68 said:

Survivors past the war were DN:s

-52 (Z-3, last flown 15.9.48 w/o 1.10.52), 

-55 (Z-3, destroyed in accident 22.5.47),

-57 (Z-1, last flown 24.7.46 w/o 11.12.52),

-58 (Z-3, last flown 13.9.48 w/o 1.19.52) and

-64 (Z-3, last flown 15.9.48 w/o 1.10.52).

All wore Finnish warpaint, yellow theater markings were painted over in September -44. Finnish roundels were applied in April -45.

One Z-1 was used as instructional aircraft and three Z-3 were used in photomapping (correct term?). Three to four planes were operational in the Lapland War against Germans, actually one of the Dorniers flew the last combat sortie so far of the Finnish Air Force!

Hope this helps, V-P

Many thanks for the details, I've got the Mark 1 Do17 kit with "1952" markings, which I thought would make an interesting side by side model with the Vampire which was introduced in the same year.

 

Might have to change the plan slightly. Better buy some more kits...

[PeterB]

Hi,

 

I wonder if they made a typo in the "Urban's Colour Chart" for FS35042 as Hu182 was called "black/grey" and seems to have been out of production for a while - one of the few colours I don't have so I cannot say what it looked like. Seems more likely they meant 181 "Glossy Sea Blue" but that too is no longer produced. For FS35045 they quote HD3 Night Blue in the long gone authentics range, for which they say the nearest current equivalent is Hu104 "Oxford Blue". That looks rather light to me. I think I will stick with Hu77 and fiddle with it a bit.

 

Pete

Edited January 15, 2020 by PeterB

[Christer A]

55 minutes ago, PhantomBigStu said:

Thanks though not being an enamel user that doesn’t help me much 

Well, MrPaint got the color for it : MRP-219 is the 438M you're looking for.

 

However, FS15042 is also known as Gloss Sea Blue.

Xtracrylix XA1121

Vallejo 71300

These might work with a paintbrush

[PeterB]

Hi Christer/Stu,

 

Used a brush with Xtracrylic Sea Blue on 3 builds in recent GB and I thought they worked out Ok - just use a fairly wide brush and spread the paint on thinly and smoothly.

 

Pete

[PhantomBigStu]

A bit of miscommunication there, I’m fine with matches for the fs35042 paint, my Original query was that I didn’t think it was a good match for the job

[Col.]

4 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

That is just such a cool photo! 

Ho ho, yes, very good. The background certainly looks cool and the subject certainly is as well.

[Christer A]

7 hours ago, PhantomBigStu said:

A bit of miscommunication there, I’m fine with matches for the fs35042 paint, my Original query was that I didn’t think it was a good match for the job

Aha! You meant it like that...

Well, when newly painted, like these J 35A then I'd say that 35042 is quite close.