Hong Kong 1/32 B-17 Little Max

[robvulcan]

Hi All.

 

Once again I have been quiet for a while and off site sadly due to life stuff...

 

However I'm back 😁.

 

This time Its an unusual subject I need some help with. The model was being made for a Museum but sadly the builder passed away during the build.

My job is to finish it off.

I will need to make a decal for the nose art (advice appreciated here) and I need to source numbers and letters of which I may need to paint.

Here is what I have to work with.

 

 

 

 

This is the only photos I have of this B-17-G  any more welcome but I cant find any.

 

 

 

 

This is the nose art of which I need a decal making.

 

 

The model when done will be on display at the Nuthampstead Airfield Museum.

 

Any advide or info on this B-17 and the nose art decal plus codes and serial decals for this welcome.

 

Cheers Rob :)

[amblypygid]

What a project, Rob. How did you get involved - Nuthampstead is hardly local to you - and I'm curious as to why that particular airframe was selected (given that the museum has a lot of relevant photos, you'd think they'd select one that is well attested)? I'll have a look through my refs but the 398th BG is not a group on which I have any "special" documents, so I'm not at all hopeful that I'd find anything of use to you. There is a photo on the 398th's Memorial Association page but I can't see what additional value it would hold for you, as it's very similar to some of those you've already got: https://www.398th.org/Images/Images_Aircraft_B-17/index.html

 

[robvulcan]

29 minutes ago, amblypygid said:

What a project, Rob. How did you get involved

 

 

Hi Amblypygid. Many thanks for the help there anything is appreciated. I am not sure of the historical importance or why this one was selected.

I got involved via my Parents who had a holiday there and got talking to the people at the Museum. They got to look at models and talked and said he had this B-17 which was needing to be finised but sadly the Builder had passed away.

It needed some minor repairs which I am fixing now the fuselage has cracked on the bottom. It does not help that its a silver finish and I am not sure of the paints used but I am sure its car paint as its very glittery and the red looks like humbrol 19 enamel.

Lucky for me they want it weathering and I am thinking of using oils for this one.

 

The main headache for me is the numbers and letter which I cant seem to source in decal form. I may need to get some masks made.

 

The nose art decal and printing to the size may prove tricky too. I am not sure my printer is good enough.

 

Cheers Rob

Edited March 14, 2019 by robvulcan

[Timmas]

The nose art looks a little blurred to me (well, at least it does on a large screen) so I'd be happy and willing to redraw it to a vector file, so it'll be nice and sharp at any scale, if that's any help Rob. I might be able to redraw the letters / numbers too if I can get good reference. I can't print it out though I'm afraid as I don't have the necessary equipment.

 

Let me know?

[robvulcan]

37 minutes ago, Timmas said:

The nose art looks a little blurred to me (well, at least it does on a large screen) so I'd be happy and willing to redraw it to a vector file, so it'll be nice and sharp at any scale, if that's any help Rob. I might be able to redraw the letters / numbers too if I can get good reference. I can't print it out though I'm afraid as I don't have the necessary equipment.

 

Let me know?

 

Hey there well I am not going to say no to that offer !

Sure go for it and then I will have more options to use.

You are right it is a little blurred. I had not even considered that..

I guess i could sharpen it but then I guess it would get pixcelated

 

Cheers Rob 

[Timmas]

27 minutes ago, robvulcan said:

 

Hey there well I am not going to say no to that offer !

Sure go for it and then I will have more options to use.

You are right it is a little blurred. I had not even considered that..

I guess i could sharpen it but then I guess it would get pixcelated

 

Cheers Rob 

I'll send you a PM when it's done. 😊

[MR2Don]

Roger A Freeman's book "Mighty Eight in Colour". Excellent book all round, four pages on Nuthamstead, but your specific bird not detailed. Also flew P38s.

[robvulcan]

2 hours ago, MR2Don said:

Roger A Freeman's book "Mighty Eight in Colour". Excellent book all round, four pages on Nuthamstead, but your specific bird not detailed. Also flew P38s.

 

Many thanks I will check it out. I was watching this earlier which was very interesting and mentioned the P38s.

 

 

Cheers Rob

 

[tomprobert]

Be sure to take the Trianlge W off the lower wing - not carried on the lower wing by this group. 

 

Cant help with the nose art, but KitsWorld do codes/letters for 1/32 B-17s. 

[robvulcan]

1 hour ago, tomprobert said:

Be sure to take the Trianlge W off the lower wing - not carried on the lower wing by this group. 

 

Cant help with the nose art, but KitsWorld do codes/letters for 1/32 B-17s. 

 

Many thanks Tom good to hear from you. I will check their site out. The W and triangle where pained on by the previous builder. I am not sure what they where done in but my guess is enamel so I am not sure how easy they would be to remove and not damage the silver or to match the silver if damaged.

I will ask the owner if they want me to leave it on or path up or other.

 

Cheers Rob

[MR2Don]

Ref. the video; the B17 is "Sally B" from Duxford, indentifiable by the yellow and black checker round the starboard inboard nacelle. I once, and sadly not since, had her fly over our house on her way to a display somewhere with a "little friend" P51 on her wing. Didn't have the camera to hand, needless to say!😡

[robvulcan]

19 hours ago, MR2Don said:

Ref. the video; the B17 is "Sally B" from Duxford, indentifiable by the yellow and black checker round the starboard inboard nacelle. I once, and sadly not since, had her fly over our house on her way to a display somewhere with a "little friend" P51 on her wing. Didn't have the camera to hand, needless to say!😡

 

It is indeed and I lover her so much. Been a life long supporter of Sally B. I actually have decals on the way for her in this scale. I am so impressed by this kit I want one for myself to make up as Sally B.

 

Need to save up the Benjemins though at £300 !

Cheers Rob

[Timmas]

I came across this info on Little Max at https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/b17/42-97317-little-max/ if it's of interest:

 

Delivered Cheyenne 18/2/44; Gr Island 9/3/44; Grenier 14/4/44; Assigned 603BS/398BG [N7-P] Nuthampstead 28/4/44; force landed with Lt Ellis at 44ADG Merville, France 2/3/45; taxi accident on base with Carl Schram 9/4/45; Returned to the USA Bradley 26/8/45; 4185 BU Independence 30/11/45; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (sold for scrap metal in USA) Kingman 4/1/46. LITTLE MAX or MAY.

[robvulcan]

On 16/03/2019 at 22:56, Timmas said:

I came across this info on Little Max at https://b17flyingfortress.de/en/b17/42-97317-little-max/ if it's of interest:

 

Delivered Cheyenne 18/2/44; Gr Island 9/3/44; Grenier 14/4/44; Assigned 603BS/398BG [N7-P] Nuthampstead 28/4/44; force landed with Lt Ellis at 44ADG Merville, France 2/3/45; taxi accident on base with Carl Schram 9/4/45; Returned to the USA Bradley 26/8/45; 4185 BU Independence 30/11/45; Reconstruction Finance Corporation (sold for scrap metal in USA) Kingman 4/1/46. LITTLE MAX or MAY.

 

Many thanks. Any info is of interest. Good find. Cheers Rob

[CedB]

Welcome back Rob  

What a project! Finishing the work of a fellow modeller who has sadly passed on is a great thing to do - well done that man.

 

I do have printers that should be able to make a decent job of the decals. I'll be happy to have a go at printing the designs that Timmas has kindly offered to produce if this helps. The colour laser might be OK or the Canon inkjet I bought for the Wacky Wabbit. I can do some test print to see whether they're acceptable at this scale.

 

I'll also be happy to cut some masks for the numbers and letter on the Silhouette and to design them if you can send me some images and measurements.

 

HTH  

[Timmas]

21 minutes ago, CedB said:

Welcome back Rob  

What a project! Finishing the work of a fellow modeller who has sadly passed on is a great thing to do - well done that man.

 

I do have printers that should be able to make a decent job of the decals. I'll be happy to have a go at printing the designs that Timmas has kindly offered to produce if this helps. The colour laser might be OK or the Canon inkjet I bought for the Wacky Wabbit. I can do some test print to see whether they're acceptable at this scale.

 

I'll also be happy to cut some masks for the numbers and letter on the Silhouette and to design them if you can send me some images and measurements.

 

HTH  

Hi Ced,

 

I've been working on the letters and numbers along with the nose art, and have sent Rob some drawings. We need to establish the correct final sizes, but once we've done that I can send you the files if Rob's happy fo me to do so.

 

Tim 😊

[CedB]

Thanks Tim 

I can probably use your letters and numbers designs for decals or masks.

Happy to help where I can and I'll leave it up to Rob to let us know what he'd like to do. Helpful   

 

[robvulcan]

On 19/03/2019 at 07:20, CedB said:

Welcome back Rob  

What a project! Finishing the work of a fellow modeller who has sadly passed on is a great thing to do - well done that man.

 

 

HTH  

 

Hi Ced many thanks for the welcome back and even more thanks for the offer of the use of a laser jet. That is much appreciated I will get the art finalised with Timmas and then take you up on the offer.

Thanks for the kindness mate. 

 

On 19/03/2019 at 08:01, Timmas said:

Hi Ced,

 

I've been working on the letters and numbers along with the nose art, and have sent Rob some drawings. We need to establish the correct final sizes, but once we've done that I can send you the files if Rob's happy fo me to do so.

 

Tim 😊

 

Yep we do need to finish that off I will be inboxing you soon mate

 

On 19/03/2019 at 12:23, CedB said:

Thanks Tim 

I can probably use your letters and numbers designs for decals or masks.

Happy to help where I can and I'll leave it up to Rob to let us know what he'd like to do. Helpful   

 

 

Many thanks both.

 

Heres a look at it with the wings not quite fitted. Time to do some weathering now the fuselarge has set since the re glue where it had fractured.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above is a 1/76 Scale or 00 gauge Prairie for comparison of size. Its a monster with the wings on.

 

Also I found this image of the same aircraft minus the red wings (not sure if I shared this earlier or not )

 

 

Cheers Rob

 

[amblypygid]

One heck of a model, Rob. I'm very sorry to say that I have turned up nowt of any relevance to Little Max in my books.

[CedB]

1 hour ago, robvulcan said:

I will get the art finalised with Timmas and then take you up on the offer.

PM me and Tim when you’re ready matey and I’ll let you have my email address for files  

[Timmas]

Wow that is an impressive one! 👍 Yep, PM me when you’re ready and we’ll get the artwork finalised. 

 

All the best

 

Tim

[phildagreek]

Good grief it’s huge!

[robvulcan]

Well its been a long time but me and the amazing Timmas have been working on this.

 

So far mostly Timmas for whom I am incredibly grateful for creating a decal sheet for.

 

Initially I tried to get hold of decals to suit this but as I looked more closely realised that this is a very non standard B-17 in terms of Lettering and Serials.

Timmas is a very talented Graphic Designer and totally redrew the nose art to as the original photo I had was blurry and missed the top of his hat.

 

Over the past few months between my work (been stupid busy) trying to get on with this me and tim have studdied this and worked on trying to get the numbers to look like they should and a contact of his provided a black and white photo of the B-17 in question which enabled us to aproximate the Kill marks on the side.

 

This has taken a long time to get too sadly but hopefully now I can actually move on with this.

I now want to learn how to do vector drawings as I am inspired at what possibilities decal paper can bring.

 

I have printed one sheet off and I think I may "get away with this" If I am crafty.

 

Here is the first sheet after printing I have sprayed it with Humbrol Matt Varnish Acrylic from a Rattle can.

 

 

My Hopes is that these will perform well with Klear and Microsol. On the silver I should be fine but May need to double up on the nose art for the contrast or somehow create a mask from the decal logo to paint white under the decal..

These are printed on clear decal paper so will be quite transparent.

 

I fear the Yellow will disapear on the red. So I will mask off the numbers on the sheet and paint the yellow over the numbers on top of the varnish that whay they shoul show up on the model.

 

Masking tape at the ready ! .. GO !

[Timmas]

Hi Rob

 

Good to see the decals printed! They've given us a few headaches along he way, particularly with all of the subtly different lettering and numeral styles that we discovered were in use at the time. But we got there in the end. It's ironic that the most colourful part of the marking, the nose art itself, is one of the smallest pieces on the finished model but at least we know it's accurate!

 

It's been great fun to do , and I've learnt so much about Little Max along the way; it was quite an aircraft and flew an incredible number of missions.

 

I didn't realise you were going to print from that particular sheet because I had planned on squeezing as many images as possible onto the artwork to give you some backup in case of a mishap. But if something does go astray it's hopefully easy enough to print another copy or two if you need 'em.

 

Anyway, I hope my bits and bobs do justice to your model making skills and look forward to seeing some pics when it's finished 😀

 

All the best mate.

 

Tim

[robvulcan]

14 hours ago, Timmas said:

Hi Rob

 

Good to see the decals printed! They've given us a few headaches along he way, particularly with ......

 

All the best mate.

 

Tim

Hi Tim once again thanks for everything and we may need the sheet with everything crammed on but as of now I have been using what I’ve got to experiment with and I think I have found a solution to the issue of clear vs white deal paper.

 

Ive sprayed the printed decals with rattle can Humbrol Matt Varnish and that seems to have gone on great.

 

Ive experimented by painting some green paint onto this and slid it onto an old model I’m restoring and despite the varnish and thickish paint cote it’s gone on thin and conformed to all contours and detail with no setting solutions.

 

So now I have some degree of confidence that I can use one of the little max Decals to hand paint out in white then apply this and the second little max decal over the top on the model like you would with some roundels that have a white backing decal. 

 

As for the yellow letters I’ll over paint them and mask them on the sheet with light grey and then yellow to make them stand out on the red. 

 

This seems a better option to me than painting out the white edges in this case at least.

 

inhad experimented on a silver model with two layers of decail without the background white and it does work and looked clear with a nice metallic look and whilst it seems passsable not as good as a white background for this model.

 

I have plenty of ideas for this decal paper it’s certainly a fun medium to work with especially as you can paint it.

 

cheers Rob