Jump to content

737 Max


rob Lyttle

Recommended Posts

On 10/19/2019 at 10:55 AM, NoSG0 said:

Instead, regulators deferred on key aspects of certification to Boeing, allowed under a congressionally-mandated program begun in 2005 while the FAA faced budget pressure."

 

I have read this somewhere too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That to me is the regulator giving up its responsibility. And how would they not? Boeing is an extremely large corporation and its budget is bigger than the GDP of many countries.  So naturally it has a lot of influence and say as also its a large defense contractor. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, stalal said:

And how would they not?

There is the reason you should not be doing it . It's supposed to be an INDEPENDENT organisation . The 2 crashes and all the things that were and were not happening prove the point of Independent scrutiny and to check all is are correct and to specification, performance and safety .

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/9/2019 at 7:19 PM, bzn20 said:

That's a bit heavy . In 1991 the VC10 Y beam (20 feet ish long and 4-5 inches wide like a T section but a bit Y shaped as the nick name implies ) that had never been changed on any VC10 anywhere  and had a Mat Spec change as original Mat Spec wasn't made anymore anywhere was only 6 months for the Billet material ( in Scotland of all places) and the milling another month ish (depending on Haggis and single malt supplies we joked at the time) . Can't believe an in service prolific seller has that lead time .

 

But nothing would surprise me on this thread , not anymore .

You should try working with Merlin🤦‍♂️

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whenever a system is put in place where one certifies oneself, then that is going to be abused. It's human nature. Self certification/assessment is NON certification/assessment.

 

That applies to all walks of life, not just aviation. I work in tax and I can safely state that the UK's introduction of a Self Assessment tax system back in 1995 has been an unmitigated disaster.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, junglierating said:

Merlin

I have ! I was  on the team ( 96-99) that built the 2 Merlin trainers . One at Yeovil Training Centre and the other in the Merlin Training (Lockheed contract of all people) School at Culdrose . I lived there for 10 months there rebuilding after transport from Westlands W-s-M to Culdrose . I imagine you must have been on one of them . I had to get that folding tail drilled off,fitted and function it . Looked like a nightmare but went like a dream . It was a great project to be on though. Did similar at Yeovil but not as much as Cornwall was calling ! I also got involved on the preproduction ( and Lithium heavy ) Merlin in the hangar further up the hill from the Merlin school at Culdrose . You should have seen the problems Lithium was causing on the Prod Line at Yeovil .

Edited by bzn20
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Eric Mc said:

where one certifies oneself

Theres a thing .. Any flight control ,engine control and fuel system and some elec and avionic stuff  has to be signed off by somebody not involved in the work carried out after the people that did the work have signed up . Not the other way 'round . Called Independent checks . That's supposed to be the belts and braces , once you start going down the self cert road (companies really like that , saves time and money) there must be a shut off point to how much can be outside the FAA's (in this case) certification envelope . Indy checks include full function of each system worked on too .

Edited by bzn20
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Cracks have been discovered in 737-800 model wing roots. Qantas is one of the airlines to have reported this. Boeing says its not a safety issue as they said about MCAS after the MAX crash. 

 

 

I dont know how credible you will find RT but they give news which America mainstream media does not cover.  This report has more detail about this issue. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by stalal
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 2:11 AM, stalal said:

wing roots

Difficult to tell this is Russian TV News .

Anyway it's the Fork ends thing that surfaced a few weeks ago

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bentwaters81tfw said:

Only the fan cowls apparently.  There have apparently only been two failures of this nature involving the CFM56-7B engine but both resulted in penetration of the cabin.  In at least one of them the penetrator was part of the fan cowl rather than the detached blade itself.  Airlines flying 737NGs with this type of engine had already started inspections of the fan stages where the first failure occurred but, oddly perhaps, no-one appears to have thought that blades in other fan stages might also be susceptible to cracking and should also be inspected.  Checks were still being undertaken when the second fan failed with the sadly fatal consequences for one passenger.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's  a tendency in news cycles to "light on" a theme once a story has broken linked to that theme. Back in 1989, not long after Lockerbie and the later Boeing 737 crash on the M1, there was a plethora of airliner incident related news stories making headlines. It wasn't that civil aviation had suddenly become more dangerous. What happened is that the media of the day had "tuned in" to every single incident that occurred in airliner operations, At the moment, Boeing is going through a similar phenomenon. Every single technical issue regarding any Boeing type is going to get reported on whilst the issues over the 737 Max remain unresolved.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

Certification expected to go into 2020 according to FAA.

 

https://airlinerwatch.com/boeing-says-approval-delays-to-risk-737-max-production/

"Boeing says the approval delays by regulators could cause the manufacturer to suspend the production of the MAX jets."

 

November 2018 internal Federal Aviation Administration analysis, expected to be released during a House committee hearing Wednesday, reveals that without agency intervention, the MAX could have averaged one fatal crash about every two or three years

 

The FAA’s analysis projected as many as 15 similar catastrophic accidents globally over the life of the MAX fleet—spanning 30 to 45 years—unless fixes were made to a particular automated flight-control system.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/internal-faa-review-saw-high-risk-of-737-max-crashes-11576069202

 

Edit: I seem to remember that they were going to "fix" MCAS but the fix was not due to be implemented until 2020?

Edited by NoSG0
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just THREE of many storage locations for the grounded MAX in the USA...……………..storage also at Alice Springs Australia

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7ztk1Sqbe8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=At0OAkr_2O0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v4VxekxwbE

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, rayprit said:

grounded MAX in the USA

Thanks rayprit . Renton doesn't look much different to normal really apart for a few on a disused runway . Moses Lake is another story though, stroll on . Money,money,money . How much money is it all costing ? I've read about it like we all have but seeing that lot is another matter .If you lived over there ,out of work , retired and want a few light hours work and qualified . They'd probably rip your arms off . Must be needing extra people to look after them . Easy work too on Anti Deterioration Servicing apart from shifting the concrete blocks to rotate the tyres to prevent flat spots .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bzn20 said:

Must be needing extra people to look after them

Boeing is hiring 100s of people to look after all stored aircraft in the USA...……...it going to cost them a mint...………………..Heres a brief rundown of there program

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHgW4UAmQks

 

  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 18/07/2019 at 08:21, Alan P said:

The 737 has been a mostly reliable, relatively efficient, acceptably comfortable and most importantly, practical aircraft for 50 years. But that is now the biggest problem it has; the design is more than 50 years old. It reached the limit of its development in the previous generation. Boeing tried to squeeze one more generational development from it to answer the competition and this revealed the 737's shortcomings. 

 

It's a shrewd move from any operator to put in some big orders right now, as Boeing will have to honour those in the event it has to bin the Max for good. The likelihood is the extension of the NG production line to cover those orders and big wins for the airlines that get cut price, brand new -800s, a tried and tested design. Whether the 737 gets its public reputation restored, that's another matter. But I suspect from previous experience (the A320, for example) public memory will be very short lived.

I fully agree with this. The 737 is out of its depth, much like was found with the Bf109 towards the end of WW2. 

I think the best outcome for the industry is replacement of the MAX orders with be 737-800s as you suggest. Perhaps with some of the not so broken MAX features included. 

I wonder how possible it would be to modify a MAX airframe back to an 800, 900 or something very similar. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fuselages are built by Spirit Aerosystems in Wichita Kansas in what used to be a Boeing facility until they sold it off. Then they are railroaded to Boeing Renton. The last production figure I have was for 42 per month from April 2019. So that train (7 fuselages) is less than a weeks production. This is a nothing story.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"US aviation regulators allowed Boeing's 737 Max aircraft to continue flying despite knowing there was a risk of further crashes. Analysis after the first crash last year predicted there could be up to 15 disasters over the lifetime of the aircraft without design changes. Despite this, the Federal Aviation Administration did not ground the Max until a second crash five months later.

 

"Regulators also issued an alert to airlines, but the agency did not ground the aircraft until after the 10 March Ethiopia crash, several days after action by other countries.

 

"Was a mistake made?" asked Democrat congressman Henry Johnson.

 

"Obviously the result was not satisfactory," said Mr Dickson. In response to later questions, he admitted the agency had made a mistake at some point in the process."

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-50750746

 

An utter disgrace. In my opinion, the families of the victims of the second crash should take legal action against the FAA for their lax and far-too-industry-friendly attitude to passenger safety. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...