Gorby's Leap into the Dark Unknown - Scratch-Building Extravaganza (no refunds) – NOW WITH ADDED SLEEPERSERVICE!

[hendie]

2 hours ago, Gorby said:

I did wonder how I could do a tiny hollow cone, but decided that madness that way lies and I could live without them.

 

small length of brass tube placed on the sharp end of a center punch, then give the brass tube a light tap until you get the taper you need.  I've also used a rat tail file to produce the cone by the same method. 

 

21 hours ago, Gorby said:

I've been meaning to do one for ages, but when I saw a very simple design on Hendie's Pullman Carriage build, it motivated me to take immediate action.

 

I can't remember who I stole it from, but it's such a simple and effective tool isn't it?

 

great and entertaining build Gorby - keep at it

[RichO]

It's nice to see a fellow modeler with the itch!  A good scratching is always good to watch.  Nice job. 

[Gorby]

1 hour ago, hendie said:

small length of brass tube placed on the sharp end of a center punch, then give the brass tube a light tap until you get the taper you need.  I've also used a rat tail file to produce the cone by the same method. 

Damn it, who's side are you on? Obviously not on the side of maintaining my tenuous grip on sanity (lost cause anyway so don't worry about it) *

 

1 hour ago, hendie said:

but it's such a simple and effective tool isn't it?

It is excellent. I used a very acute angle to see if that would be more accurate for smaller circles (I have no idea if it is as I've only got the one – just a theory).

 

* I had to try it – after many frustrating attempts, I manage to split one and squash one, so I hope you realise I'm going to have to completely ignore your post.

 

1 hour ago, RichO said:

It's nice to see a fellow modeler with the itch!  A good scratching is always good to watch.  Nice job. 

Thanks Rich. I love a good scratch as well.

[SleeperService]

Looking very good now Gorby. As well as the machine guns there were about 17 crew so if knocked out what emerged was a pretty handy force on their own. It must have been 'cosy' inside even for such a big beast.

 

While you've galloped ahead I've finished the front stompers in the photo and am now on the rear ones. I think I'll try conical flash hiders as a bit of light relief....

As an idea how about we form a scratch-build 'buddy build'? Basically run them on one topic together. Gorby's Buddies Scratch-Build?

[BlobMan]

On 3/21/2019 at 5:16 AM, Gorby said:

The Blob

You called?

 

*extremely bad joke alarm*

[Gorby]

16 hours ago, SleeperService said:

As an idea how about we form a scratch-build 'buddy build'? Basically run them on one topic together. Gorby's Buddies Scratch-Build?

I'm up for that (even if you're likely to show me up with your fancy conical flash hiders). I was going to ask if there's a WIP with your build.

 

Perhaps we call it 'The Itch That Needs to be Scratched', or 'Scratching with my Buddy', or something, open to suggestions.

 

How does this buddy build thing work then?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, Gorby said:

Scratching with my Buddy', 

That ⬆️ might not be a good title guys. It has some alternative possibilities that we shall say aren't exactly for Family viewing. 😉

[SleeperService]

AFAIK We just form a Band of Merrie Scratchers put a topic up and all build on the same topic.

 

The conical flash hiders thing works best with a thick needle or a dart point. Take your brass tube get it glowing a nice cherry red and quench it. Clean it up with scotchbrite or similar. Cut a piece over length and tap it onto the needle very gently. Where you hit it it will deform hence the extra. Cut off that bit, drill a hole and there you are. Possibly. 

 

Britmodeller's Daring Scratch Modellers ? BDSM for short......perhaps not.

[Gorby]

I have chosen an entirely appropriate title – well, appropriate for a deluded megalomaniac anyway.

 

 

29 minutes ago, SleeperService said:

The conical flash hiders thing works best with a thick needle or a dart point. Take your brass tube get it glowing a nice cherry red and quench it. Clean it up with scotchbrite or similar. Cut a piece over length and tap it onto the needle very gently. Where you hit it it will deform hence the extra. Cut off that bit, drill a hole and there you are. Possibly. 

 

I hope to be able to finish my model in this lifetime preferably, so in my alternate universe, conical flash hiders weren't fitted on this particular A7V. 

 

Feel free to post when you're ready. 

 

[Pete in Lincs]

2 hours ago, Gorby said:

conical flash hiders

This may not be a family friendly phrase either....

[Gorby]

It was all going so well (you know where this is going don't you):

 

Yesterday I was happily attaching panels and adding the riveted skin to the sides. I checked each panel when I removed the foam block that I held them in place with while they dried. But, this morning I've noticed a problem.

 

 

There seems to be a very fine line between not enough glue and too much glue. Too much glue (Revell Contacta) – the rivets disappear.

 

So I I have a choice:

Scrape the riveted skin off and try again – but that will take quite a bit of time and cause a lot of damage.

Start the body again from scratch – no bloody way.

Go back to experimenting with adding rivets to the existing panels.

 

[BIG X]

I think @The Spadgent used tiny 'blobs' of mr surfacer as rivets on his spectacular 1/24 BF109 build - dropping on a tiny blob with a sharpened cocktail stick and letting it harden as a raised rivet.

 

you'll get there Gorby - keep going mate - Steve

[Gorby]

5 minutes ago, BIG X said:

used tiny 'blobs' of mr surfacer as rivets on his spectacular 1/24 BF109 build - dropping on a tiny blob with a sharpened cocktail stick and letting it harden as a raised rivet.

Thanks Steve. I haven't got and Mr Surfacer but one of the intended experiments will be with blobs of plastic putty.

I've just tried scraping off the skin off one of the the panels. It was a hell of a mess (good reminder of why we should call it weld, not glue) took about half an hour, so that looks like it may be an option.

[Bullbasket]

Don't you just hate it when that sort of thing happens! I don't know if this would be of any use to you Mark. There's a stuff called Tulip Chrystal. It's dimensional paint for painting designs on T shirts. Steve Zaloga wrote an article in MM years ago, where he built a (I think) Crusader Mk.1 in 1/48th scale, and to replicate the rivets, he used this product. I got hold of some and tried it, and although it takes a bi of practice, it can work.

HTH's.

 

John.

[Gorby]

1 hour ago, Bullbasket said:

There's a stuff called Tulip Chrystal.

Good morning John, I trust you had a good nights sleep. 

 

I had a look on the evilbay for tulip crystal:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/My-Little-Pony-Crystal-Princess-Tulip-Twinkle-G3/123699267730?hash=item1ccd0d0892:g:5zwAAOSw3utY76EQ&frcectupt=true

 

Does it stamp out the rivets with it's tiny hooves? 

 

Thanks for the suggestion – all suggestions are welcome at the moment, if all else fails I'll look into it. Before any more skins get fitted, I need to do a few more experiments with alternative glues.

[Pete in Lincs]

Blobs of simple white (PVA) glue may do the job?

Sometimes the rivet gun gets away with you and 'smears' the head a bit. They're not all exactly alike.

Excellent stuff so far BTW.

Pete

[Bullbasket]

1 hour ago, Gorby said:

Good morning John, I trust you had a good nights sleep. 

 

NO I BL***Y DIDN'T!! Damned kids!!

You looked in the wong place. Try this; https://www.amazon.com/Tulip-Washable-Crystals-Fabric-Assorted/dp/B000ILZAVAr

Now I'm going back to bed.

[Gorby]

4 hours ago, Pete in Lincs said:

They're not all exactly alike.

That's the problem with my experiments so far with adding blob type rivet heads, probably more practice required.

[Gorby]

I thought I'd just share with you my exploits with adding rivets to replace the melted ones.

 

I tried using blobs of filler, but getting the blobs the same size was the problem – no two where the same and it just looked silly. I also sacrificed half a bottle of Tamiya extra thin by adding plastic off-cuts to make a jar of nasty dissolved gunk. I couldn't get those blobs the same size either.

 

Next experiment was chopping tiny slices of 0.5mm styrene rod, dipping each one in glue then spending the next few minutes attempting to get it to stick to the test sheet rather than the tweezers or the scalpel that I was trying to poke them in place with.

 

Pause for swearing. 

 

After leaving to dry overnight I micromeshed them to a uniform height, sloshed Extra thin on them and after leaving for a few mins I shaped the heads using my new invention.

Let me introduce you to:

 

My hand made patented 'rivet head tamping down device' (any similarity to a sawn-off cocktail stick is pure coincidental – I'll sue I tell you!) available from only THIS stockist, currently half the usual price at £49.99 (excluding postage and 'mug' tax of £49.99). Offer only while supply of cocktail sticks stock remains.

 

 

Comparing it to the rivets on the model they are about twice the size. 

 

The obvious solution is use smaller rod. Smaller than 0.5mm!!!!!!!! 

 

After stretching some sprue I tried 0.34mm discs.

 

I couldn't find the little buggers. 

 

Next up was 0.42mm which produced discs the size of this full stop > . < And that's pretty much what I looked like when I was squinting at them.

 

This is them before they have been shaped (the Tamiya tweezers are amazing):

 

This is after being shaped – with the 0.5mm sample:

 

And this is to show how duff they look under a coat of paint: 

 

I think the panels are going to have to come off. 

[Bonhoff]

Would these work?

 

'Ickle Pins...

 

IanJ

[hendie]

This would be incredibly labor intensive, but since it's not me who would be daft enough to attempt such folly, I thought I'd throw it out there....

You might want to save one of those cocktail sticks so you can poke your eyes out with it later though...

 

If you have styrene rod of an appropriate rivet diameter - drill a series of holes where the rivets would be. Glue sections of rod in the holes - don't worry about the length at this point though I would probably try and match the diameter of the holes with that of the rod (seems obvious but...). 

Figure out what height the rivets need to be and apply for another patent for your new wonder jig.... once you have the patent, find something that matches the rivet height e.g. a piece of 0.25 mm thick plastic card.  Drill a hole slightly larger than the rivet (rod) diameter in aforementioned plastic card.  Slice that in half through the hole so you have a sort of 'C' shape end to the jig.  That can then be placed against the rivet (rod) and used as a fixture to slice all the rods off at the same height.

Either micro mesh the new "rivets" to round the heads off, or maybe a slap of extra thin would do the same.

 

 

[Gorby]

On 25/03/2019 at 17:20, Bonhoff said:

Would these work?

'Ickle Pins...

The trouble is that I'm a teensy, teensy bit OCD, so I would have to buy the whole range to get the closest match. 

 

 

On 25/03/2019 at 17:43, hendie said:

Figure out what height the rivets need to be and apply for another patent for your new wonder jig.... once you have the patent, find something that matches the rivet height e.g. a piece of 0.25 mm thick plastic card.  Drill a hole slightly larger than the rivet (rod) diameter in aforementioned plastic card.  Slice that in half through the hole so you have a sort of 'C' shape end to the jig.  That can then be placed against the rivet (rod) and used as a fixture to slice all the rods off at the same height.

Either micro mesh the new "rivets" to round the heads off, or maybe a slap of extra thin would do the same.

 I may be mad………..

 

 

I've decided that the quickest and easiest way is to completely re-do to end panels, in fact I'm half way to re-cutting them at the moment. Someone on another site has suggested filling the back of the rivets before reattaching and I think I will attach the riveted skins with double-sided tape so there won't be any risk of deflated rivets (who knew there was such a thing).

 

It's all part of the learning process.

 

Thanks for the suggestions.

[Bullbasket]

Mark, there's only one solution to your problem, and it's going to be very hard to accept...........you're going to have to spend some money (pauses while Mark takes a sharp intake of breath)...........and buy a punch and die set. 

Seriously though, I bought a Waldron set some years ago, and if I remember correctly, it cost about $50 from the States. There are others on the market now, but I've found it to be invaluable for rivets. Once I'e punched them out, I pick them up on the end of a pointed blade, add a dab of MEK with a brush to the place where they are to go, then touch the rivet to it. The solvent is sufficient to pull the rivet off of the blade.

 

John.

[Gorby]

On 26/03/2019 at 09:49, Bullbasket said:

Once I'e punched them out, I pick them up on the end of a pointed blade, add a dab of MEK with a brush to the place where they are to go, then touch the rivet to it. The solvent is sufficient to pull the rivet off of the blade.

Oddly enough I thought of that……. Just after I'd prised off the duff panels.

I do have a punch set. It's a cheap and cheerful leather punch set, but it generally does the job well. It goes from 0.5mm to 5mm in half mill steps and for the first time ever, I used the smallest punch. Unfortunately I couldn't get the disc out of it - the hole is just too small. I tried experimenting with 1mm disks and the result was quite promising. They are too sharply defined to blend in with the existing ones and a little big, but not too bad.

 

 

I've re-cut all the end panels and today’s goal is to get them fitted. The old ones at the top, the centre row is the inner 0.8mm panel and the lower row is the skin that will be riveted.

[The Spadgent]

Sorry for the late reply. Rivets are looking good in the latest incarnation by the way.

I did indeed use Mr Surfacer 500 to pop sanded off rivets. Took me a bit of time. Blob some on, let them dry then blob again to get them higher. It worked well in the end. Not too expensive about a fiver a pot I think. But as your punch seems to be working I’ll keep quite. Bravo on your tenacity sir.

 

johnny.