Tornado tinted windscreens?

[MR2Don]

OK, confused of Essex here. I've looked at numerous Tornado photos and on some of them, the windscreen seems to have a sort of golden or bronzish tint, on others it appears clear. Is there a variant difference at work here; did some have screens tinted, others not? I'll bet anything you like, several people on this form will know the answer!

[Pete in Lincs]

It was a long time ago, but if I remember correctly there is a heating mesh in there. Rather like the heated windscreens on Fords. 

It is visible from some angles but not others.

[Graham Boak]

There was a "gold" treatment given to canopies (not just windscreens) in order to reduce radar reflectivity, the interior of the cockpit acting like a beacon on radar because of its multiple internal angles.  I don't know whether this was applied to Tornados, but it wouldn't surprise me.  I suggest looking at the dates of your photos: if this occurred then the ones with the golden tint will all be later.

 

It may simply be some curious light effect.  It may be just tinting to reduce glare.  It may be that different photos are showing different effects.  However when I was close-up to Tornados, in the late 70s/early 80s, I don't remember there being any tinting then.

[Des]

Many aircraft under certain lighting conditions seem to have a sheen like the iridescent film oil leaves on top of water which I have always put down to being a quality of the thickness of the windshield and of the materials used to make it.

[Twobad]

It would appear to have a very slight tint.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/303073773479?chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F710-134428-41853-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%252Fi%252F303073773479%253Fchn%253Dps%26itemid%3D303073773479%26targetid%3D595627804553%26device%3Dm%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D1007126%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1700156600%26adgroupid%3D63778811502%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-595627804553%26abcId%3D1140496%26merchantid%3D115153540%26gclid%3DEAIaIQobChMIi-fcjIv64AIVhdGyCh3idQcgEAQYASABEgIArPD_BwE%26srcrot%3D710-134428-41853-0%26rvr_id%3D1890894466014%26rvr_ts%3D6cb8cefa1690ac1f59577103ffd33971

[Julien]

On ‎07‎/‎03‎/‎2019 at 17:01, MR2Don said:

OK, confused of Essex here. I've looked at numerous Tornado photos and on some of them, the windscreen seems to have a sort of golden or bronzish tint, on others it appears clear. Is there a variant difference at work here; did some have screens tinted, others not? I'll bet anything you like, several people on this form will know the answer!

Yes it does, but not the canopy.

 

 

We have some very good tornado walkarounds here on the site.

 

Julien

[MR2Don]

Thanks for all the responses. There is no doubt that some Tornados had this tinted appearance, and I am tending to think along the lines of Pete from Lincs, that it could be a heated mesh. My plan is to turn Revell 03925 into ZE159 (I may do a WIP on it) and, looking at images on Google, it does appear to have a tinted front screen.

Next task, then, is how to reproduce it on the model. I have and idea, but it's going to need some testing.

[Reparty]

On 3/17/2019 at 8:13 PM, MR2Don said:

There is no doubt that some Tornados had this tinted appearance

You may have misunderstood. All Tornados will have the tinted appearance when viewed at the critical angles where the tint can appear.

It's the same with most armoured glass, blue Phantom windscreens being a pet hate of mine.

Yes, they can appear to be tinted greenish or bluish, but it's a transient effect dependent on the lighting and angle of view. In most conditions and from the inside, they are perfectly clear.

[Alan P]

Just to add, according to the dearly departed Merv (Spike on here) the tint only appeared on the front side windscreen panels, not the central panel or the canopy 👍 However I've seen photos since that possibly contradict this:

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/100780654@N07/18684151410/

 

Spike was my Britmodeller Tornado guru through many detailed Tornado builds so I don't want to argue!

Edited April 5, 2019 by Julien
pls dont imbed copyrighted pics, links only

[Scooby]

On 3/8/2019 at 1:55 AM, Graham Boak said:

There was a "gold" treatment given to canopies (not just windscreens) in order to reduce radar reflectivity, the interior of the cockpit acting like a beacon on radar because of its multiple internal angles.  I don't know whether this was applied to Tornados, but it wouldn't surprise me.  I suggest looking at the dates of your photos: if this occurred then the ones with the golden tint will all be later.

 

It may simply be some curious light effect.  It may be just tinting to reduce glare.  It may be that different photos are showing different effects.  However when I was close-up to Tornados, in the late 70s/early 80s, I don't remember there being any tinting then.

My experience with both military and civilian is the gold film in the front windshield is for heating to clear ice and fog. I can’t speak for the Tornado though specifically. It is actually a thin film of gold sprayed in the layers of the windscreen. The windscreens come with electrical contacts match to their impedance.

[Irishgreek]

On 4/4/2019 at 4:01 AM, Alan P said:

 Merv (Spike on here)

Never knew him, but loved his posts.  Definitely missed.  (Sorry for the thread hi-jack).

[Reparty]

There can be several effects going on with canopies.

 

The first mentioned in the thread is refracted colour, which occurs when the thickness of the glass causes the effect. Whether laminated as armoured glass is, or thick plate like in a shop window or aquarium, the colour is that seen when viewing the glass panel's edge being bent in the direction of the viewer.

There are also polarising coats or laminated layers applied that can be applied to cut glare for the aircrew, and heating elements which I would suggest is the effect seen in the Tornado photo. Less common (at present) are the iridium coatings applied to aircraft such as the F-117 and F-22 which are there to defeat any radar waves from penetrating the cockpit.

 

One of the fallacies that modelers fall into is to suppose that a photo is a true and indelible record of their subject. In most cases it CAN be treated as such.

But in others, such as transient lighting effects on or through glass, it's only a true record of that time, place and attitude for that 1 millisecond.

 

Some may know what you're attempting to get at, but painting brownish sludge all over your Tornado's windscreen won't impress many, especially if they're familiar with real aircraft.

Perhaps one day the the model paint suppliers will devise holographic coatings for canopies that are invisible until viewed at the optimum angles.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Reparty