Rolls Royce Armoured Car

[colin]

I'd like to see your hot rod version Andy, that rear shot certainly has the right look

[John Tapsell]

Some comments on the kit versions.

 

What you get is great for a WWII RR Armoured Car in North Africa - but not much else without a lot of work. It's a very late 1930s upgrade with wide pneumatic tyres, different hubs and single wheels on the rear axle. An original 1920 Pattern did have solid (instead of spoked) hubs but think of them as being otherwise the same as the 1914 Pattern wheels - thin profile and with double wheels at the rear.

 

Similarly, the turret is a taller 1920 Pattern design and unsuitable for a 1914 Pattern vehicle. There were apparently a very small number built in 1918 with the deeper turret and there is some suggestion that the initial batch built for the RAF in 1918 had the deeper turret (but this may be referring to the same 1918 batch).

A 1914 Pattern RR had different fenders to the 1920 Pattern and the running boards of the 1914 Pattern were removable and doubled as wooden unditching planks - on the 1920 Pattern, the unditching planks were carried underneath a set of 'proper' running boards.

 

Just to confuse the issue, a lot of the 1914 pattern cars that continued in service in the 1920s and 30s had their armoured bodies transferred to newer RR chassis periodically as the originals had worn out. A proportion of the vehicles had their bodies transferred to Fordson truck chassis in the late 1930s, but not all.

 

The RR Tenders in the photos posted on this thread indicate that the armoured cars pictured belong to either No.1 or No. 2 Armoured Car Companies of the Royal Air Force, serving in either Palestine or Iraq. All military security in this part of the world was the responsibility of the RAF so there were no British Army units present (certainly in Iraq) in the 20s and 30s - the only 'infantry' units were locally recruited battalions under RAF control.

Regards,

John

[dcrfan]

On 3/8/2019 at 5:08 AM, Bullbasket said:

Seeing as the chassis is the same, if I could lay my hands on some decent 1/35th scale plans, I'd have a go a scratch building one.

 

John.

We need a civilian pattern bonnet and radiator as well.  I have given up waiting for the long promised Roden Silver Ghost car which would have provided the required parts.  I did get one of the old Airfix rollers but its bonnet would be of no use. 

[M_Sinclair]

Super cool build Andy. It's so odd seeing what look like modern wide tires on a vehicle that typically has such hilariously thin tires. The wood grain came out wonderful. A lovely touch (along with the exhaust pipe). Man, those decals look like they would could fairly easily be turned into custom vinyl masks The steam punk/Mad Max version sounds like too much fun to pass up! I'm more than happy to encourage this!

 

-matt

[DAG058]

I am looking forward to seeing this one! 

[Portaler]

Can't wait to get to the paint bit 🙂 Looking great Andy !

[Kingsman]

On 3/9/2019 at 2:26 PM, BKirwan said:

I do wonder though why Meng are advertising this as a 1920 pattern, the second option in the kit is not 1920. The wheels are all wrong and the changes to the turret are all from a later period.

You can only build the WW2 desert version correctly OOB.  Every other version needs some new parts not provided.  Disc wheels alone might produce a 1920 pattern.  I believe a single-digit number of the 1918 pattern were built on the 1914 pattern hull with wire wheels and the taller-sided turret.  Sources vary whether it was 3 or 6.  I believe they went to Palestine and can be seen in some photos in a dark colour with light spotted camouflage.

 

There was of course the 1924 pattern with the early light tank turret, also used in the Middle East in the late 30's if not into WW2.  I believe that would just be a turret swap on this kit, although the 1924 pattern hull was different in detail.  They were all built by 1 company, Vickers, for a start.  Earlier versions were built by several companies and differed in detail from each other.

 

On 3/6/2019 at 6:03 PM, malpaso said:

by the time of the desert tyres and Caunter scheme many (most? All?) had been rechassised  with Fordson lorry chassis and engine

Not entirely so.  Only a limited number were converted: there weren't enough chassis available to do all.  It was a civilian G018 chassis, not a cannibalised GS truck.  Essentially the same chassis as the ICM Ford G917 kit apart from 1" longer wheelbase, if you're interested.  A longer bonnet was needed.  No1 Company RAF carried on with R-Rs and the photos show 2 of their cars.  No2 Company was fully re-equipped with Fordsons mounting up to 4 MGs.  Some had a 0.5" AN/M2 Browning replacing the Boys rifle and all carried twin Lewis and later twin 0.303" Brownings on the Scarff ring. 

 

AFAIK no Army units used the Fordson: the RAF kept them until they got Otters.  Army units mostly had the R-R with a large open-topped turret (from the Morris CS9?).

 

 

[Andy Moore]

Sorry for the lack of updates; last week was fairly hectic. I did manage to make a little progress over the weekend though.

 

The turret is moulded with the sides and back as one piece, and a separate front panel.

 

 

Due to the way that it's been moulded, the panel line between the side and rear armour panels is a little indistinct and the bolt heads either side of the panel joint aren't perpendicular to the surface.

 

 

I shaved off the bolt heads, sanded and re-scribed the panel line, and replaced the bolts. I had to do this with domed rivets due to a lack of suitably sized bolts, so the replacements aren't totally accurate. I don't think it will really show up that much at this scale though.

 

 

Back on the body, I had to rebuild the bonnet hinge, as mine was broken on the sprue. It's actually easier this way anyway since replacing the hinge pin with styrene rod saved me from having to scrape the mould line from the kit part.

 

 

The front mudguards and the rear timber panels have now been added, and the lower chassis and drive train given a coat of brown lacquer to act as a base coat for the subsequent painting.

 

 

 

Andy

[Plasto]

Looking good Andy

[Hairtrigger]

Can't wait to see this build completed must get one myself.  I did the Roden version last year in 1/76 bit fiddly and wished I'd gone for the 1/35.

[Bullbasket]

Nice work Andy. Those bolt heads definitely needed replacing.

 

John.

[Hairtrigger]

My effort of the Roden version 1:76 ...     Looking at your thread again and this Meng version making me want to get it, it looks a lot better than the 1:35 Roden version.

[Kris B]

This is very interesting vehicle. Nice work progress, so I can't wait for painting. 

[Bennygman]

Andy, your work is never less than stunning, this is going to be another great build and I can't wait until I can get hold of one myself.

 

Now I've buttered you up - I'm nicking that idea for the exhaust!

 

Steve.

 

[Andy Moore]

I've been working on the front end for the last couple of days. The headlights are in place, which was a tricky job as the brackets are very thin and very hard to clean up. I snapped one in half while cleaning up the (admittedly very slight) mould line, but fortunately I managed to repair it. Once they're in place they're fairly sturdy, especially if you add the cables, as I've done here, which helps to reinforce them. 

I've also added the radiator doors and they're rather poorly designed as there are no really positive attachment points for them. The corners of the doors essentially just ledge against the ends of the bonnet and there's very little glueing surface to hold them in place. Having them in the closed position, as I've got them here, helps a little, as the doors can be glued against the horizontal plate that sits just below the opening mechanism. If you had the doors open though, which is an option, they'd be very weak

 

.

 

Another weak area in the kit are the two stowage lockers that sit on the rear fenders. They've got very awkward mould steps on each side that are virtually impossible to fill/sand without destroying the latch, hinge and lid detail. They're not just mould lines that can be scraped off either. The sections between the lines are at a different level to the areas either side. There are definitely a few poor, or at least simplified, moulding techniques used in this kit, which is not something I'd normally expect from Meng.

 

 

The easiest solution was to simply sand all the surfaces down until they were flat. That will mean rebuilding the lids and hinges etc. but the only other option would have been to completely rebuild the lockers from scratch.

 

 

 

There seem to be almost as many variations on the locker style and shape as there were vehicles. Some were higher, some lower, some longer and some shorter. Some had two hinges and thicker lids which is the style represented by the kit part, and some had three hinges and thinner lids, which is the way I've rebuilt them. The lids and hinges were easy enough; just rectangles of styrene and some stretched sprue. Cutting the slot in the latch and making the tab that it latches over was a bit fiddly, as was the padlock. There's only one of those at the moment and it may stay that way. Let's just say the crew have carelessly misplaced the other one.

 

 

You may notice from the above photos that some areas have started to get some paint. I was really only intending to paint the wheels at this stage, mainly to test the colour. I mixed more paint than was required though, so the chassis and lower body got some coverage as well to save wasting the paint. The wheels got a base coat of CARC Tan to act as a shade layer for the Portland Stone. The AK Portland Stone itself I found to be a bit too yellow to my eye so, in the end, I mixed in some Iraqi Sand, which has a pinker tone. It might not be 100% accurate, in fact it's almost certainly not, but once it's got the other Caunter colours on, and it's all been weathered, it'll be fine.

 

 

A quick comparison of the colours for anyone interested, although the harsh lighting in the shot doesn't really show them as they appear to the eye.

 

 

The wheels have now had some washes to bring out the detail and dirty them up a little. I'm using these as a test bed for how I'll weather the rest of the vehicle. The tyres were sprayed with a coat of matt varnish with a little Tamiya Flat Earth mixed in before being mounted on the wheels. They'll get some further dusty weathering later on.

 

 

Andy

 

 

[vaoinas]

Looking really good, Andy.

 

As of occasionally poor molding with Meng kits, I had an experience with their Mark V tank, which held few of such surprises as well.

At least the stowage lockers are not too hard to re-detail after sanding down the mold lines down.

 

I like the sand colour too.

Keep it going!

Edited March 28, 2019 by vaoinas

[Soeren]

You just know how to do it. The wheel looks amazing.  Painting rubber with tinged flat coat appears to be really smart. The was on the wheel is enamel or acrylic?

[M_Sinclair]

Very cool Andy. Just read your review on TMN of the Yanmar tractor. I've never been so in love in with a tractor! She's gorgeous! Your control of the mud splatter is incredible. Really amazing job.

 

The Rolls is looking lovely. Stowage bins came out great. Looking at the tires. Any plans to possibly add some ballast to the model to help the pneumatic tires sit down a little flatter?

 

-matt

[Rob G]

Looking good, and an interesting yet much neglected subject.

 

Re the turned wheels- the inside wheel should be turned a little more than the outside wheel, as it has to describe a sharper radius bend to get around the corner. That's true of all vehicles regardless of age, physics is a harsh mistress. In 1:1 scale, getting it wrong leads to 'interesting' vehicle handling. Old vehicles sometimes look odd because of the high degree of wheel camber they have, with the tops of the wheels leaning out, this leads to that 'falling over' look when the wheels are turned.

[Andy Moore]

On 28/03/2019 at 09:53, Soeren said:

You just know how to do it. The wheel looks amazing.  Painting rubber with tinged flat coat appears to be really smart. The was on the wheel is enamel or acrylic?

Thanks Soeren,

The washes on the wheels are AMMO enamels.

 

On 29/03/2019 at 00:03, M_Sinclair said:

Very cool Andy. Just read your review on TMN of the Yanmar tractor. I've never been so in love in with a tractor! She's gorgeous! Your control of the mud splatter is incredible. Really amazing job.

 

The Rolls is looking lovely. Stowage bins came out great. Looking at the tires. Any plans to possibly add some ballast to the model to help the pneumatic tires sit down a little flatter?

Cheers Matt,

The Yanmar was a fun little kit to build.

The tyres would look a bit better with some compression, but I don't think the vinyl rubber (or whatever it is they make these tyres from) is soft enough for any additional weight to squash them down. 

The wheels are actually a slightly loose fit on the axles, even with the poly-caps holding them on, so I might swap them for some resin ones in the future which should have the sag cast in.

 

Andy

[Alfisti]

In Scale Aircraft Modelling April 2019 Vol 41 Issue 2 on page 44 there is an interesting article on how to simulate bulged vinyl tyres that looks quite effective. Never been a fan of kit supplied rubber/vinyl tyres.

Your kit build looking good.

 

Dave.

[FrancisGL]

Very good progress, coming alonf nicely...

Cheers Andy 👍

[Andy Moore]

Most of the construction's complete now. The armament and spare wheels will be added after painting. The two square lockers at the back of the running boards (one either side) come with the kit, but are designed to attach under the rear fenders. I've found very few photos that show RR ACs with the lockers mounted there, and far more with them mounted as they are here. I had to cut the backs down since they were too deep to sit on the running boards without hanging over the edge, and I replaced the lids and latches so they'd match the ones I made for the larger lockers.

The rolled sheets are made from PVA-soaked tissue, and they'll be attached with some retaining straps at the end.

 

 

 

The whole thing has now had a base coat with AK Iraqi Sand and a little post shading with CARC Tan. The shading is fairly pointless really as most of it will get covered with the caunter colours.

 

 

 

Up next will be a lot of masking.

 

Andy

[Plasto]

Looking good...

[stevehnz]

Coming together very nicely Andy, I'm enjoying this one a lot.

Steve.