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11 minutes ago, Smithy said:

Great stuff Big X, keep the timeline and information going. I would have liked your previous comment for the information but I was worried that my "like" might be misconstrued as liking the subject and content! I decided that a thanks might be best - the joys of modern internet etiquette.

 

Another bit of trivia. One of my friends back home is a rather well-known Battle of Britain historian and who also has a spectacular collection of bits and bobs from the war. When I was round at his house one time he showed me an original order from Himmler promoting an SS fellow to the rank of general. The strangest thing was that Himmler had signed the order in green pencil and my friend assured me that this was common practice for Himmler when signing official orders and communiques. I found holding that document which had been held and signed by that man to be a remarkably nasty feeling.

 

 

I know what you mean Smithy and an interesting if 'creepy' tale of the document - not nice folk - to say the least...

 

...anyway - on with the tale...

 

A policeman was uncertain about the authenticity of their papers.  Some reports state that an official stamp was missing – but it was the beginning of the end.

 

They were removed from the train and taken into custody by the criminal police.  British officers investigating the case after the end of the war discovered a confidential report…

 

Basically this states that after the questioning of the documents – one of the men ‘inadvertently’ answered in English.  This episode is echoed in the movie by Gordon Jackson, but as Bushell’s escape partner was French it is likely that any slip up was by BIG X himself.  Being fluent in French, German, Italian, Danish, Slovakian and Russian it might be easy to forget which language you are talking in – so if this occurred I’ll forgive him… I struggle with English and that’s my first and only language.

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The official report doesn’t reveal which officer slipped up, but after months of coaching other escapees on how to deal with these situations it was a cruel blow.

 

At this point the two men were separated for interrogation.

 

They both freely admitted their identities and their escape. They were treated well at this point and after food and cigarettes Bushell spoke freely about his life as a student at Cambridge and his training as a barrister.  This training had previously given him an edge of his interrogators, in revious escapes, as he always had ‘the right answers’.

 

He spoke on this occasion about his travels in Germany in the 1930’s and all seemed to be going well – giving him a very false sense of hope…

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It was at this point in the story – though ‘story’ is the wrong word – it is at this point in history that things took a very nasty turn.

 

Bushell and Scheidhauer were transferred to Lurchesflur prison – where their case was taken up by the Saarbrucken Gestapo and a few hours later they were removed – on the pretence of being taken to Berlin.

 

A Gestapo officer – Emil Schultz – told investigators after the war that he was ordered by Dr Leopold Spann – also of the Gestapo – to suggest where these two officers maybe shot.  Shultz suggested by the autobahn (motorway)

 

The men were eventually driven to Gestapo headquarters and left in the lobby – along with their luggage – maybe someone was hoping they would make another ‘run for it’.

 

 

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Personally at this point I always hope Roger will make another escape attempt - or a voice of reason will arrive to put a stop to the pure evil that is just over the horizon.

 

From your point of view – this is the point where Steve McQueen tries to jump the wire on the motorbike…

 

…it doesn’t matter how many times you watch the movie – you always think he is going to make it ‘this time’.

 

That’s how I feel at this point about Roger…

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  • BIG X changed the title to The Great Escape - Time to die...

Good evening gents - Time is moving on and my build has truly stalled.  I will get it finished at some point in the coming weeks.

 

This has completely depressed me, but interest from BMers in the ‘true story’ of the great escape has picked up my spirits and reminded me why I love this place so much.

 

Even though I won’t be gluing anything tonight I will update the timeline.  It won’t be easy reading – but it is important – to me at least that we remember what was occurring in ‘real time’ 75 years ago today and more importantly tomorrow.

 

I hope you stick with me…

Steve

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It has been a fascinating read Steve. I didn't really know much about it, so thanks for making me very slightly less of an ignoramus.

 

How are you feeling now?

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The build can wait, the story is the thing. I remember having seen this film so many times almost as a Christmas tradition, without necessarily appreciating the real story - so thanks for sharing it here.

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Probably like many on here I had an overall impression of events but not an appreciation of the details.

 

The tense, yet informative, way you are telling the story is making compelling reading.

 

Well done so far and "looking forward" (kind of the wrong phrasing for such an event) to the continuation.

 

All the best

Ben

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What is about to occur has been called “the single greatest war crime to be committed by Nazi Germany against British Servicemen from the 3rd September 1939 to 8th May 1945”.

 

That’s a pretty powerful statement and immediately brings to mind other atrocities committed by this regime – but the wording is important – for it is talking about BRITISH SERVICEMEN.

 

From this standpoint I would like to take to take time to remember what occurred in the fields & forests and on roadsides across Germany, Poland, Bohemia and Moravia.  Where small groups of recaptured prisoners, as well as a handful of solitary individuals, were murdered by agents of the Gestapo.  No mercy was shown to the fifty men.

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I’ve pondered long and hard over this post.  How much ‘detail’ is appropriate and how much ‘naming of names’ should I go into.  Don’t get me wrong – if you read the books on Bushell and the Escape itself – then you can find masses of detail.  Even a quick ‘google’ will reveal every gory act that occurred in the next day or so.

 

Here though I’m aiming to pay a tribute to BIG X and his fellow escapers, but a few details serve to fill in the gaps and tell a truer story than we are all familiar with from the film.

Tomorrow – 29th March – back in 1944 – just a couple of months before D-Day would see the beginning of the executions of the fifty.

 

As mentioned previously, unlike everyone being driven to a field and ‘gunned down’ as a group – as shown in the film - the true story was one of furtive little excursions to quiet places where despicable war crimes could be committed in relative seclusion and passed off as legitimate acts of war.

 

For Roger Bushell and Bernard Scheidhauer their killings were orchestrated by three key men – Emil Schultz, Dr Leo Spann & Walter Breithaupt.

 

From interview records after the war – Schultz claimed he was ordered into a meeting, by his boss Spann, where Spann asked him if he had ever seen combat.  Like so many Gestapo officers he replied in the negative.  At this point Spann informed him that secret orders had been issued for the escapees were to be shot and asked him if he could suggest a suitable location.

 

Schultz suggested the side of the autobahn would be suitable…

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Elsewhere… fellow escapers Bull, Mondschein, Kierath & Williams were about to be executed by Bernhard Baatz – the Reichenberg Gestapo chief.

 

If ever proof of a war crime were needed then Baatz provided it, as he had written a letter on this night – to the local crematorium, naming the four men – the night before he actually killed them ‘whilst trying to escape’.

 

Including Bushell, Scheidhauer, Bull, Mondschein, Kierath & Williams - eighteen men will die tomorrow.

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  • BIG X changed the title to The Great Escape - Lest We Forget...

Today - eighteen brave men have been murdered - by a regime that is approaching its last days.  Were these men foolish to escape - just a couple of months before D-Day?  Should they have 'sat tight' and waited to be liberated.  It is difficult to understand the mind set of men who had been incarcerated for up to four years - many who had already tried more than one previous escape.  They didn't know liberation was coming in a couple of months and more importantly they remembered the duty of an allied airman.  Here are those duties - note the statement - not to be taken into the air...

 

THE RESPONSIBILITIES OF A
PRISONER OF WAR

Instructions and guidance for all ranks in the event of capture by the Enemy

EUROPEAN THEATRE OP OPERATIONS ONLY

 

Note.--During hostilities a copy of this publication is to be issued to every member of aircrew, whether operational or under training; and C.Os. are also to ensure that all other personnel have a general knowledge of the principles laid down herein.

Issued for the information and guidance of all concerned.

By Command of the Air Council

NOT TO BE TAKEN INTO THE AIR

--1--

The Responsibilities of a prisoner of war - It is the duty of all ranks to protect the Security of the Royal Air Force by every means within their power. Each individual must clearly understand that he is personally responsible for safeguarding Service information at all times. This responsibility is greatest after capture.

 

The Enemy is known to attach the utmost importance to the interrogation and search of prisoners, but he can learn nothing from a silent and resolute prisoner whose pockets are empty.

The Geneva Convention of 1929, which was signed by all the Great Powers, laid down that a prisoner of war is only required to give his - Name, Rank and Number and that no pressure may be brought to bear upon him in order to obtain any further information.

 

No further information whatsoever should be given. Remember that a prisoner who systematically refuses to give information is respected by his captors.

 

Behaviour under interrogation - Any member of the Royal Air Force who falls into enemy hands should observe these simple rules when facing interrogation. He should stand correctly to attention; give his name, rank and number--and nothing else; maintain a rigid silence thereafter, avoiding even the answers "Yes" or "No". If pressed, he may reply "I cannot answer that question" Avoid all attempts to bluff or tell lies; preserve throughout the interrogation a disciplined and strictly formal attitude, addressing any officer senior to himself as "Sir"; avoid all fraternization, and refuse all favours; establish from the outset that he is a type from whom nothing can be learnt. After the official interrogation is over, a prisoner must remember that further efforts will be made to extract information from him. Only by constant vigilance and alertness can he avoid the many traps which may be set for him.

 

--2--

He should therefore trust no one until he is absolutely certain of his integrity, and he should view every act on the part of the Enemy with suspicion. He should also remember that, although he is a prisoner of war, he is still a member of the Royal Air Force, and that the disclosure of Service information is an offence under the Air Force Act.  Remember that a silent and resolute prisoner without articles or papers of any sort is an interrogator's nightmare.  What the Enemy will try to find out from you - Information about any unit of the Air Force, or of the Navy and Army.

 

What is your squadron number?
Where is it stationed? and what is its strength?
Where are other squadrons stationed?
What have been their recent movements? Any rumours as to future movements?
What do you know about casualties suffered?

Types of Aircraft--performances--new designs--and armament. Building and Supply.

Airfields and landing grounds at home and abroad.

Any information about Allied training and tactics--and how much you know of enemy tactics.

Information about air raid damage in U.K. or to British ships.

Anything about the weather, recent or forecasts.

Air Defence organization and A.A. Defences.

Home Conditions--Politics--Food Supply--Spirit of the People and serving Forces.

A few careless words about these things and the whole of your
operational war effort may be rendered valueless in comparison

 

How information is obtained by the Enemy Sources

Examination of captured aircraft and material.

Search of prisoners of war for note-books, letters, diaries and any other incriminating articles or papers.

Interrogation of prisoners, either by direct questioning or by indirect methods such as the following:--

 

--3--

Methods - Fraternization. The commonest trick of all. Prisoners are well treated, entertained and given plenty to drink. An atmosphere of good fellowship is carefully built up and Service matters are then casually discussed. A skilled' interrogator will be present to guide the talk into the right channels.  Microphones. These are always extensively used, and are sensitive to the slightest whisper. Some will be so cunningly hidden that not even an expert can find them.  Stool-pigeons, speaking perfect English and carefully briefed, will be introduced among prisoners. They will not be easy to recognize, and may even be the first to warn everyone of the need for caution when discussing Service matters.  Agents. The Enemy will have agents working among the nurses, doctors, attendants or guards who look after prisoners. These may either pretend to be sympathetic; or else pretend that, they cannot understand English. Like the stool-pigeon, they will be good actors and very difficult to recognize.  Know-all approach. "We know everything already, so there is no point in your keeping silent." It may be suggested that another prisoner has talked ; or an imposing-looking file may be' produced which appears to give detailed information about R.A.F. units, aircraft, equipment and personnel, and may contain a number of photographs, newspaper cuttings and other such items.  Intimidation. A prisoner may be threatened, or attempts may be made to bully or browbeat him. A "fake" shooting of other prisoners may be staged. Blackmail may be tried.  Ill-treatment may occasionally be resorted to by the Enemy, even though the Geneva Convention forbids it. Attempts may be made to lower a prisoner's morale and to undermine his resolution by means of unsuitable diet: overheated cells; or solitary confinement.

Bribery. A prisoner may be offered preferential treatment, with special liberties and luxuries, if he will co-operate with his captors, either by talking himself or by persuading others to talk. A prisoner who collaborates with the Enemy in return for an easy life is a traitor.

 

--4--

Bogus Forms may be produced in the hope that the prisoner will answer the questions which they ask. They may appear to be genuine Red Cross forms or official documents. Put your pen through every question except Name, Rank and Number--otherwise the Enemy may fill in the answers above your signature in order to bluff other prisoners. (Note.--Failure to fill in a Red Cross form does not delay notification to relatives, who are informed through official channels.)  Propaganda. From the moment a prisoner is captured he is subjected to enemy propaganda. He will continually be told lies about the war situation, and about his country and her Allies, in the hope that his resolution will weaken, and that his courage will fail.

These are only ten of the Enemy's tricks. Be on your guard.  He has many others up his sleeve.

 

Do's and Dont's

Do give your Name, Rank and Number, but nothing else.

Do convince your interrogator from the very outset that you are the type who will never talk under any circumstances. Therein lies the whole secret of successfully withstanding interrogation.

Do behave with dignity and reserve under interrogation, so that you command tie respect of your captors.

Do maintain your resolution and morale; and encourage your comrades to do the same.

Do empty your pockets before going on operations.

Do destroy your aircraft, maps and documents whenever possible. Remember that incriminating articles and papers can often be disposed of before the Enemy has a chance to search you.

Do keep your eyes and ears open after capture--you may learn much which may be of value both to your country and yourself if you succeed in escaping.

 

--5--

Don't be truculent or aggressive under interrogation. You may regret it.

Don't try to fool your interrogators. They will be experts at their job, and in any battle of wits you are bound to lose in the end. Once you begin to talk, they have got you where they want you. Soy nothing and go on saying it.

Don't imagine that you can find every microphone. Yon can't.

Don't talk shop. A careless word may cost old comrades their lives. If you have plans to discuss, do it in the open air--but remember, even trees have ears!

Don't accept old prisoners on trust.

Don't believe enemy propaganda, and don't let your comrades do so either.

Don't broadcast, no matter what inducement is offered.

Don't fraternize. The Enemy is not in the habit of wasting his time, whisky and cigars on those who have nothing to give him in return.

Don't give your parole, except under special circumstances.

Don't betray those who help you to escape. A careless word after you have reached safety may cost them their lives.

Don't write direct to any Service address in the U.K., and don't reveal in your letter that the addressee is in any way connected with the Services. Remember that the German censor will closely examine all your correspondence, and will note what you write and to whoa you write.

Don't carry these instructions on you or in your aircraft. They are to help you and not the Enemy.

A prisoner is always surrounded by his Enemies. Trust no one.

Rights of a prisoner

The rights of a prisoner of war are fully safeguarded by the Geneva Convention of 1929, and this should be displayed in every Camp. Insist on this being done.

There is a neutral Protecting Power to whom all serious complaints can be addressed through the Camp Commandant.

If you escape to a neutral country, claim your freedom and report to the nearest British representative.

 

I want us all to commit that to memory - it could save your life one day - Steve

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Great thread Big X !

I learned yesterday that there was a Belgian RAF pilot among the escapees !

And He is alas among the one that have been murdered.

I saw it on FB yesterday.

Thanks for the way you give us this lecture !!

Really great and moving thread !

Sincerely.

CC

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17 minutes ago, corsaircorp said:

Great thread Big X !

I learned yesterday that there was a Belgian RAF pilot among the escapees !

And He is alas among the one that have been murdered.

I saw it on FB yesterday.

Thanks for the way you give us this lecture !!

Really great and moving thread !

Sincerely.

CC

Hey CC - The Belgian man you are referring to is Flight Lieutenant Henri Picard of the No.350 Sqn (Belgian) RAF.  He was indeed one of those murdered today - in the port of Danzig - along with three other escapees...

 

A Lithunaian - Romas Marcinkus who was a Flight Lieutenant from No.1 Sqn RAF

 

...along with 2 British Flight Lieutenants - Gordon Brettell - from No.133 Sqn and Gilbert Walenn of No.25 OTU RAF

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As mentioned yesterday - we already know that another four men met a 'nasty end' today in what is only the beginning of a terrible war crime.

 

Sqn Ldr Leslie "Johnny" Bull from 109 Sqn

Jerzy Mondschein a flying officer from 304 Sqn (Polish)

Flt Lt Reginald Kierath an Australian from 450 Sqn RAAF

and another brave Ozzy & yet another Sqn Ldr...

John Williams also from 450 Sqn RAAF

 

As discussed yesterday their deaths were 'logged' as 'shot whilst trying to escape' - almost 24 hours before they were ruthlessly murdered by the Gestapo.

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In another port - Kiel - four more men were making for an escape by sea - but were also murdered today...

 

A New Zealander - P/O Arnold Christensen of 26 Sqn RAF

 

2 Norwegians...

Lt Halldo Espelid from 331 Sqn (Norwegian) RAF

Lt Nilas Fuglesang from 332 Sqn (Norwegian) RAF

 

along with yet another Ozzy Sqn Ldr - James Catanach from 455 Sqn RAAF

 

When you look at this mix of nationalities it reads very similarly to the pilots from The Battle of Britain - four years earlier.  By no means all British - but ALLIES IN A COMMON CAUSE. 

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Sqn Ldr Tom Kirby-Green of 40 Sqn and Canadian Flying Officer Gordon Kidder of 6 Sqn were picked up on the Czech border & taken to the Gestapo offices in Zlin.

 

Kirby-Green was just 26 years old and had a son - Colin - who he had never seen.

 

Kidder was 29 and an accomplished linguist - as are many Canadians with their mix or British, French and often Italian heritages.  He had studied German at John Hopkins University in Baltimore & would have made a great escape companion.

 

There interrogation lasted a mere couple of hours - before they were shot and sent for cremation at Mährisch Ostrau.

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As we know- BIG X - Roger Bushell was a South African, but another pair of brave South Africans were also amongst the list of those murdered on this day - 29th March 1944...

 

In München - Lt - Rupert Stevens of 12 Sqn SAAF & Lt Johannes Gouws of 40 Sqn SAAF were captured and questioned by Johan Schneider from the Gestapo - who subsequently murdered them both.  Gouws was 24 years old and Stevens had just turned 25 - no age at all. 

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Finally for today and with a very heavy heart it is time to remember Roger and Bernard...

 

They had travelled over 400 miles in just a couple of days before they were captured.  In fact if you look at a map of where all the men were murdered today - it is plain to see that Roger's plan to 'spread men right across the occupied territories' had worked.  Imagine if he had of succeeded in getting 200 men out...

 

Lt Bernard Scheidhauer of 131 Sqn & Sqn Ldr Roger Bushell of 92 Sqn - BIG X - the leader of the Great Escape - were captured in Saarbrücken and as discussed previously were murdered.

 

For 'the record' - a car containing Spann & Schultz (wearing SS uniforms) & driven by Breithaupt was travelling to Homberg and then onto Kaiserslautern. Bushell & Scheidhauer were handcuffed in the back with Schultz.  On the A6 autobahn Spann ordered the car to be stopped and the prisoners handcuffs to be removed.  Scheidhauer was ordered out of the car to 'relieve' himself and then the same order was given to Bushell.  At tis point Schultz said he had taken a pistol from his pocket, moved to the rear of the car & and fired on the men.

 

Scheidhauer died immediately, but BIG X wasn't dead.  Schultz later admitted in court that he had lay down beside Bushell and shot him in the left temple.

 

emil-schultz-gestapo.jpg

 

Schultz (centre) was later tried for these murders and subsequently executed - but that is entirely a different story - another story of amazing persistence and courage by the military police after the war.

 

I think we have dwelled enough on the sad events of today - so it is time to raise a glass and remember their vision & courage...

 

With the going down of the sun and in the morning - we will remember you :poppy:

Steve

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Hello Big X

Here's the pic received from FB of Henri Picard.

55674647_2163580327062989_7337973100052480000_n

And a pic from the ceremony in Sagan.

Hope that I did'nt Hijack your thread

55957868_2163581053729583_5998722599746535424_n

Sincerely.

CC

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1 minute ago, corsaircorp said:

Hello Big X

Here's the pic received from FB of Henri Picard.

55674647_2163580327062989_7337973100052480000_n

And a pic from the ceremony in Sagan.

Hope that I did'nt Hijack your thread

55957868_2163581053729583_5998722599746535424_n

Sincerely.

CC

How can anyone hijack history - thanks CC - great pics and fantastic to see that the local people in the area of Sagan are doing their best to keep this very important story alive.

 

Maybe somewhat contentiously I will make a remark that I believe to be pertinent.  The 'death camps' that the Nazi regime set up - to murder literally millions of people are rightly being preserved and used to 'educate' future generations - so hopefully we will never repeat these atrocities.  I won't dwell on mans ability to ignore history and repeat the same crimes  - over and over again.

 

BUT - it makes a refreshing change to see 'a rebellion' - as in the great escape tunnel being preserved and used to educate people that it is 'noble' for prisoners to 'resist' and 'fight back' - in any way they can - even at the cost of their own lives.

 

Remember - we aren't talking about 1 or 2 men - we are talking about 50 men - murdered and that was a crime that needed justice and later...  remembrance.

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Hi BIG X,

 

What a great project with some superb historical documents in there which makes one think that the real escapers’ stories were much better stories than those in the film.

A future project for Peter Jackson maybe, once he's got The Dambusters remake in the can...?

 

A few things which may help you with N3194 GR-Z from my research on 92 Sqn from May-July 1940...

- Type B upper surface colours confirmed by the port side of the fin.

- On the basis of Gillies' N3290 GR-U the fuselage roundels, N3194's roundels were probably 35-inch diameter B/W/R withe the white being 21-inches in diameter and the red 6-inches; checking with dividers shows them to be smaller than 7-inches. (They were not 25-inches in diameter as mentioned on the FunDekals sheet.)

- Check out this link for colour notes on N3194 from FunDekals: http://www.fundekals.com/spitfiresPart2.html

- You can download a pdf of the instructions, it's a large (147MB) file! Sadly, for you, they don't do these decals in 1/72nd scale yet.

- The photo of the crashed N3194's port side confirms the white/black/aluminium undersides: look at the lower fuselage and undersides of the tailplanes. GR-U was similarly finished, regarding the undersides.

- Where I'd disagree with FunDekals is that the port underwing roundel on N3194 probably did not have a yellow surround judging by 92 Sqn's GR-W photographed (probably) around the same time; the order to add these was issued on 4th June, though some squadrons had started to do it before then. (Photos of other 92 Sqn aircraft show the underwing roundels were applied over the stencils and the stencils were not reinstated.)

- With its underside colours being w/b/a, it may have had a 12-inch high black Z on the cowling centre line just behind the spinner, as GR-W did; FunDekals don't show this.

- The square gas detection patch on the top of the port wing - a few photos show that at this stage in the war this was often applied square onto the wing chord rather than 'diamond-pointed' so to speak. The location was in the same place on the chord with the inside edge aligned with the undercarriage indicator peg and running parallel with the chord-wise black walkway line near the cockpit.

- Fin stripes: probably 6-inches wide and it's possible that they were reversed with blue leading as FunDekals say.

- In the cockpit - no armour plating behind the seat or headrest (not fitted until early June); no rear view mirror.

- Definitely NO IFF aerials fitted from the tailplane tips to the fuselage; but you probably knew that anyway!

 

I hope all that helps you out and look forward to the next instalment of your build story.

 

Good luck!

 

Nick

 

Edited by NG899
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I spoke to Jon Müller today, son of surviving escapee Jens Müller. Jon wants to build a model of the aircraft his father was shot down in off the Belgian coast 19 June 1942. He asked me if I could help with decals, but as the scale is 1/24, I could not. Had he only selected a smaller scale...

 

Nils

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