Jump to content
This site uses cookies! Learn More

This site uses cookies!

You can find a list of those cookies here: mysite.com/cookies

By continuing to use this site, you agree to allow us to store cookies on your computer. :)

Sign in to follow this  
spaddad

Indo -Pak border dispute

Recommended Posts

Anyone know what the Indian aircraft shot down on the news was?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have seen mig 21 mentioned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, tsepajev said:

InAF lost 3 planes: first MiG-21 and Su-30MKI and later Mil Mi-17 on a resque mission.

All those in a single day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, spaddad said:

Anyone know what the Indian aircraft shot down on the news was?

A MiG-21UPG Bison was what Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman was flying; he's the officer currently captured by Pakistan. The PAF has also claimed an Su-30MKI, and the Mi-17 crashed over a hundred kilometers within India and may not be connected to anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a photo of a MiG-21 forward fuselage - it must have come down flat, as it is squashed almost flat and there's no trail of damage behind it. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Haven't heard anything about a MKI being downed or crashed but a MIG-21 Bison was shot down and a Mi-17 crashed from what is speculated as mechanical failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Su-30 has been claimed, but no evidence seems to have appeared, unlike the MiG and the Mi-17.

 

Things are not being helped by some news outlets and enthusiastic nationalists Tweeting images claiming to be shot down aircraft - so far we've been treated to:

 

1. Photos of the wreck of a n IAFHawk 132. Which crashed in 2015

2. Video footage of the Su-30 pilot. A very unlucky man, since identical footage from last week shows that he was involved in the mid-air between two Suraya Kiran Hawks a few days ago.

3. The  wreck of the Pakistani F-16 which was shot down. For some reason it appears to be wearing American markings.... 

4.  The wreck of the Pakistani F-16 which was shot down. Wearing Belgian markings....

5. The wreck of the Su-30, which appears to have turned into a MiG-27 as it crashed, altering the time-space continuum as it fell, since there is TV coverage of it dating back to 2016...

6. The wreck of the Su-30, which has rotor blades (this one, to be fair, is probably confusion on the part of a picture editor rather than a deliberate use of some random image taken off the internet).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Serial of Indian Bison seems to be CU2328 and was supposedly shot down in aerial engagement. India claims one Pakistani aircraft was also shot down. Personally I am not too concerned about potential escalation in short term, but in medium and long terms who knows ... Let us hope for the best. Cheers

Jure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

News media continually showed footage of what was clearly the helicopter that crashed labelling it as a jet. Didn't anyone point out the obvious rotor blade in the wreckage? 

 

The first reports from Pakistan were of two shot down with one Indian pilot captured and another in hospital. Then the Indians said they shot down one Pakistan aircraft and lost one Mig. Makes me wonder if a PAF jet was lost but is being covered up. Or the Indians are covering for their other loss. Or maybe just the fog of war. 

 

Hard to believe the Mig21 is still in frontline service.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, noelh said:

Hard to believe the Mig21 is still in frontline service.

 

Article in the Aviationist suggests the Indian AF are claiming the downed Mig-21 shot down a PAF F-16D  Block 52 with an R-73 prior to it being shot down, no evidence been produced though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Possibly that's a reason to hide it. Americans might take a dim view of F16s being used against India. I did read somewhere that that the original reports mentioned F16s being swiftly re designated as JF-17s. 

 

Bet there's lots of behind the scenes diplomacy going on. Which might explain India's not pursuing the claim too hotly.

Edited by noelh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand on 28th February a press conference took place on which high ranking IAF personnel presented parts of AIM-120 C-5 missile as a proof Pakistani F-16 took part in the incident, according to this and this (and several other) web pages. There are many scenarios floating around, and it has been suggested photos of the wreckage of second presumably Indian aircraft actually show remains of PAF F-16 B Block 20 MLU S/N 78-0269. Let us wait and see. Cheers

Jure

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Jure, those articles confirmed my hunch that there's more going on in the background. The Aim 120 is a bit of a smoking gun isn't it?

 

I'm sure behind the scenes Pakistan is worried about the Americans cosying up to India. After all all those museum piece Migs need replacing. Besides India doesn't harbour Islamists. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

US State Department is now looking into whether or not Pakistan F-16's were involved and violated the end user-agreements.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/28/2019 at 1:27 PM, XV107 said:

1. Photos of the wreck of a n IAFHawk 132. Which crashed in 2015

I think that must be the one posted on the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight's page(??!) yesterday. After many people pointed out the tail didn't look at all like a MiG-21 the original poster explained that's because it was an upgraded version...!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Dont get this,why would the U.S sell F-16's to Pakistan and expect them not to be used against any aggressor especially knowing the main

threat come's from India? And is it true  the guy who brokered the deal is in Saudi Arabia right now signing a 3 billion dollar deal selling them sand?

Edited by stevej60

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The agreement was that the Pakistan government would not use the F-16s outside of Pakistan airspace for combat use and any training events with other countries needed to approved by the State Department before conducting them. That's why Pakistan is saying their JF-17s were the ones that flew during that engagement.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, noelh, there is probably plenty going on behind the scene. Quite a schizophrenic situation: PAF is pointing to an air-to-air victory but is vague about how it had been achieved. IAF is pushing F-16 involvement agenda but keeps relatively quiet about conducting strike on Islamist camp some 40 km inside Pakistan unopposed while in turn intercepting PAF counter-strike in timely fashion and, possibly, shooting down one of the attackers. USA is busy minimizing damage to diplomatic relations with both sides and sweeping (again, unconfirmed) shooting down of one of USA produced aircraft under the carpet. Still, increased bickering of India and Pakistani fans all over the web indicates military situation in Kashmir has more or less returned to status quo ante, at least for the time being.

Stevej60, I had a good laugh, reading your remark. However, Saudi Arabia has been buying plenty of stuff which is of as much use to them, or even less so, than sand. Cheers

Jure

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both sides have long standing form when it comes to overclaiming. In both the  1965 and 1971 wars, it

seems to have been quite difficult to distinguish fact from fiction in terms of claims and losses. The present situation is not helped by the exclusion or very tight control of foreign journalists 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/2/2019 at 12:55 PM, noelh said:

I'm sure behind the scenes Pakistan is worried about the Americans cosying up to India. After all all those museum piece Migs need replacing. Besides India doesn't harbour Islamists. 

India is buying 110 of the F-16V model (Block 72) and will be called locally the F-21.

 

Pakistan harbouring / aiding and abetting terrorist camps and activities will provide a good source of targets though...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...