New Tool Tamiya 1/72nd Spitfire Mk1

[Plasto]

That’s not my point. 

 

Its a given the western market for military models  has changed away from the ‘toy trade’ to the enthusiast adult buyer. 

 

 

 

The issue is if you are to invest in tooling to produce using your example a P-51B then the accuracy and build ability of the kit is almost a given as you need to meet those criteria to make a sale, any inaccuracy will be vilified here in forum land. The question is will the subject you choose result in volume sales initially and then on a repeatable basis? 

 

My conjecture is some subjects such as Spitfires and Me109G’s and P-51D’s will which is why as subject choices they are very prevalent.

 

Some subject seem obvious to enthusiasts such as the P-51B yet are not as well represented.. So that’s either gross oversight on the kit companies part or they may know something about what sells in volume..

 

 

 

Edited February 28, 2019 by Plasto

[Jeff.K]

*if* Tamiya get the Mk.I right this time, i'll be in for at least 8 of 'em. 
 

THE thing i hate most in a kit is when the shape's off, so i wouldn't touch their previous release with a barge pole no matter how detailed it is.

scribing panel lines is work, but do-able. that's why out of what's currently out there i prefer the old Airfix to their new tool with its deep wide gouges, and either to the older Tamiya Mk.I. 

it's definitely a mark of Spit that isn't quite sorted out yet in 1/72.  i'll be delighted if it's good. i looked at the reviews of their 1/48 Mk.I when I saw this thread, and this looks promising. 1/48 does me no good as I have zero interest in that scale no matter how good the kit. if they use the same CAD model and scale it down, this could be a great kit. 

[Redboost]

They are just converting into money the data they collected for 1/48 scale kits, what is strange on that. Pity the 3D came too late for Swordfish, P-51B, Storch and others ...

[TEMPESTMK5]

Good morning

 I really think that a new and accurate P51B/C Mustang kit in 1/72 would sell well because the were used by many airforces and sported very attractive colour schemes and nose arts  ...

 

Patrice

 

 

[MarkoZG]

5 hours ago, Jeff.K said:

*if* Tamiya get the Mk.I right this time, i'll be in for at least 8 of 'em. 
 

THE thing i hate most in a kit is when the shape's off, so i wouldn't touch their previous release with a barge pole no matter how detailed it is.

scribing panel lines is work, but do-able. that's why out of what's currently out there i prefer the old Airfix to their new tool with its deep wide gouges, and either to the older Tamiya Mk.I. 

it's definitely a mark of Spit that isn't quite sorted out yet in 1/72.  i'll be delighted if it's good. i looked at the reviews of their 1/48 Mk.I when I saw this thread, and this looks promising. 1/48 does me no good as I have zero interest in that scale no matter how good the kit. if they use the same CAD model and scale it down, this could be a great kit. 

We totally think alike! I also prefer old Airfix Mk.I over any other Mk.I in this scale as scribing and detailing is much easier to do than fixing all other stuff when shape is off.

Edited February 28, 2019 by MarkoZG

[Doc72]

A Tamiya 1/72 Spitfire I ist absolutely unnecessary. It's a luxury, but a luxury I'd like to indulge in.

[Cammer625]

I’m pumped - my LHS are selling Airfix Spitfie VA for $30 - I’ll be able to get this one for less than that.  Airfix is no longer the cheaper alternative in my neck of the woods.  I like Tamiya over Airfix - easier to build, much finer detail (all generally speaking).  Which would you buy - Airfix 109G or the Tamiya 109G for the same price?

 

[MarkoZG]

It is amazing how each new product has its buyers in advance, regardless to its and the quality of the existing similar products. No matter how many good kits of certain subjects there already are, people tend to think that anything coming from Tamiya is superior to anything else. However this is far from truth. Warbird series of Tamiya's own molds in 1/72nd scale is a mixed bag. Aside from the buildability, shape accuracy is from case to case basis. Even the previously announced Me 109G looks odd on the photos and if you ask which would I choose between Airfix and Tamiya, I would answer - Fine Molds. I already have these in stash and still need some more and these will not be Tamiya's for sure.

If we talk about profit logic of them as a producer, they will surely sell some as each new product has its buyers. As said at the beginning, if they release new Me 109 or Spitfire every 6 months, there will be people buying them. Why? Because it is new and because it is Tamiya. Is it logical - no, but these will be the only buyers.

However, should Tamiya decide to release something necessary like P-51B which many ask for or like Storch or Swordfish, they would still attract the same group of customers as above, but also additional ones who really need those kits.

I am sure there are plenty of modellers who are not going to but either Me 109G or Spitfire, as many didn't buy the Ki-61 because it was covered by modern kits over every possible average and they are justifiably satisfied with great kits released so far. Isn't recent release of Hurricane by Arma Hobby excellent proof of this? Market needed good Mk.I late and while Tamiya plays with well covered types, small manufacturer successfully steals the show.  Win for Arma and loss for Tamiya. This is so typical recurring case in business when large and established company has lousy R&D and goes down against almost start up competition.

Tamiya is large enough it wouldn't hurt it too much, but they just keep collecting wounds and scars, let's see for how long.

[Procopius]

Well I, for one, am excited. The Airfix kit has long been one of my favourite builds, but it looks clunky and toylike next to the Arma Hurricane I. It will be nice to have a new, cutting edge Spitfire (assuming Tamiya don't screw it up, of course) to set alongside my cutting edge Hurricanes.

[Graeme H]

On 28/02/2019 at 02:47, Basuroy said:

Yes , on paper , there are many mk.1 kits.

But have you seen them ? the airfix one , considered best of the lot , is an abomination compared to anything tamiya has in 72nd scale. Just compare the panel lines on tamiya kits to other manufacturers - that alone is reason enough to justify this. And then cockpit detail in 72nd scale that will put resin aftermarket out of business . 

Compare the 72nd scale Tamiya Zero with the airfix kit .  The difference can be massive .

Hmmm, Tamiya have allready done this in 72nd 

I for one hope they do a better job on this one

[Plasto]

A manufacturer could choose a myriad of ww2 aviation subjects to produce in 1/72 scale model form. 

 

Of all of these subjects there is a core which have broad appeal and a further group which have devoted followings.  So when it comes to assembling a product range to take to market subject choice is important. 

 

The problem is if you listen solely to enthusiasts what you get is a highly skewed view as to what constitutes a must have subject for your range.  So the skill in range selection is knowing what will sell as the main aim of being in business is to make money and creating a range that appeals to all potential customers as well as the enthusiast market. 

 

So I personally don’t get too het up when another Spitfire or P51D appears. I also don’t get overly excited when a mainstream manufacturer such as Tamiya decide not to kit say a Hurricane or P-51B my view is if the market is crying out for these subjects then market forces being what they are the market will fulfill the need.  So as Arma hobby has invested in the Hurricane someone else may invest in a P-51B. 

 

If the demand for these subjects is strong then good sales will follow. What you don’t want to do is tool up meet the initial enthusiast demand and when everyone has 10 in the stash then sell no further stock. As that doesn’t make for a sustainable business model. But it does fulfill the need for a subject in the market. 

 

So I suspect Tamiyas new 1/72 Spitfire will be nice but probably won’t meet everyone’s desires in terms of detail features and price as were an incredibly difficult bunch to please. 

 

Im looking forward to further commentary once some actual sprue shots surface...

 

[Tbolt]

7 hours ago, MarkoZG said:

It is amazing how each new product has its buyers in advance, regardless to its and the quality of the existing similar products. No matter how many good kits of certain subjects there already are, people tend to think that anything coming from Tamiya is superior to anything else. However this is far from truth. Warbird series of Tamiya's own molds in 1/72nd scale is a mixed bag. Aside from the buildability, shape accuracy is from case to case basis. Even the previously announced Me 109G looks odd on the photos and if you ask which would I choose between Airfix and Tamiya, I would answer - Fine Molds. I already have these in stash and still need some more and these will not be Tamiya's for sure.

If we talk about profit logic of them as a producer, they will surely sell some as each new product has its buyers. As said at the beginning, if they release new Me 109 or Spitfire every 6 months, there will be people buying them. Why? Because it is new and because it is Tamiya. Is it logical - no, but these will be the only buyers.

However, should Tamiya decide to release something necessary like P-51B which many ask for or like Storch or Swordfish, they would still attract the same group of customers as above, but also additional ones who really need those kits.

I am sure there are plenty of modellers who are not going to but either Me 109G or Spitfire, as many didn't buy the Ki-61 because it was covered by modern kits over every possible average and they are justifiably satisfied with great kits released so far. Isn't recent release of Hurricane by Arma Hobby excellent proof of this? Market needed good Mk.I late and while Tamiya plays with well covered types, small manufacturer successfully steals the show.  Win for Arma and loss for Tamiya. This is so typical recurring case in business when large and established company has lousy R&D and goes down against almost start up competition.

Tamiya is large enough it wouldn't hurt it too much, but they just keep collecting wounds and scars, let's see for how long.

You need to remember that not everyone is an expert on a type and the majority of modellers are not that worried about a model being super accurate. Tamiya have name for great building experience, this is a hobby after all and a lot of modellers are looking for that. But the fact that their 1/48th Spit Mk.I is pretty accurate tells us that there is no reason ( unless they really screw up ) that this kit won't be accurate besides being a great build. So is it surprising that there's already a lot of people wanting to buy it? Not at all.

 

You say win for Arma Hobby and loss for Tamiya and Arma steals the shows, but I don't get that. Will the Arma Hurricane sell well, yes but I bet they Tamiya Spit will sell in far greater numbers, so I don't see how that is a loss for Tamiya. If Tamiya had bought out a Hurricane, that would have sold very well, but I bet not as well as this Spit. 

 

Also don't get caught up too much in this little world of ours - those of us that spend a lot of time in forums like this, reading up on kit, researching types etc, are a small percentage of the model buying public.

 

If you have a link to the accuracy problem of the Tamiya Bf109G-6 I would be interested to read. I like the Fine Models kit, but I'm not sure I would pick it over the Tamiya kit ( it doesn't help that there is no UK importer so getting the FM kit is expensive ).

 

 

[DominikS]

Gentlemen (and Ladies if you read this topic)

 

As Spitfire is my favourite warbird I am very happy to hear that Tamiya is going to release 72nd scale Spitfire Mk.I. The old one really needs replacement as it has some shape issues. But wait with any comments until we see the model (hope sooner than later - maybe some first shots will be sown in Shizuoka in the spring). 

 

I know this is wishful thinking but I'd love to see two-blader option too (not only DeHavilland). It's rather obvious there won't be any armour plates if they base on the 48th scale design. 

 

Nevertheless, we have to wait and see. I'm sure that it will be the best One available, unless they mess it up.

 

 

Chaning topic. I once read that Fine Molds Messerschmitts also have some shape issues - although they are still the best Friedrichs and Gustavs available in the market. I am sure some people will compare Gustavs Six from FM and Tamiya as soon as the latter hits the shelves.

 

 

[Giorgio N]

A company like Tamiya is not going to be touched by the success that someone like Arma may have, the distribution of Tamiya is such that their numbers are way superior to what a small company will ever hope to do. In Japan I've seen model shops that spread over 7 floors and of them 2 were dedicated to Tamiya only. Tamiya even have their own shops selling Tamiya products only. It's a company with distributors everywhere in the world that churn kits by the thousands, companies like Arma are only going to make a very small dent in the overall Tamiya revenues.

For the same reason Tamiya don't necessarily need to worry about the relatively small number of modellers that would buy a 1/72 Storch, it makes much more sense from a commercial point of view to release another Spitfire or bf.109

[Fatboydim]

There's certainly been a lot of interest in this post. The only information I can deem is from the original post. I'd be curious to know how scalemates got wind of it. But if I recall correctly, they were quick off the mark regarding the release of the Tamiya 1/48th Spitfire MK.1 last year.
If a new 1/72nd Spitfire from Tamiya does materialize, I hope the box art is as good as the box art on the forthcoming 1/72nd Messerschmitt.

 

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/tamiya-60790-messerschmitt-bf109-g-6--1188999

[TEXANTOMCAT]

But now Airfix are embracing the Revell model of reboxing....they'd do well to rebox the Arma Hurricane - Arma get a mahoosive order and make money and Airfix have the distribution to reach parts Arma can't.... new decals too... bosh.

 

Just sayin'....  Why not do the Dora Proctor while they're at it...

 

TT

[Andre B]

On 3/1/2019 at 1:53 AM, MarkoZG said:

It is amazing how each new product has its buyers in advance, regardless to its and the quality of the existing similar products. No matter how many good kits of certain subjects there already are, people tend to think that anything coming from Tamiya is superior to anything else. However this is far from truth. Warbird series of Tamiya's own molds in 1/72nd scale is a mixed bag. Aside from the buildability, shape accuracy is from case to case basis. Even the previously announced Me 109G looks odd on the photos and if you ask which would I choose between Airfix and Tamiya, I would answer - Fine Molds. I already have these in stash and still need some more and these will not be Tamiya's for sure.

If we talk about profit logic of them as a producer, they will surely sell some as each new product has its buyers. As said at the beginning, if they release new Me 109 or Spitfire every 6 months, there will be people buying them. Why? Because it is new and because it is Tamiya. Is it logical - no, but these will be the only buyers.

However, should Tamiya decide to release something necessary like P-51B which many ask for or like Storch or Swordfish, they would still attract the same group of customers as above, but also additional ones who really need those kits.

I am sure there are plenty of modellers who are not going to but either Me 109G or Spitfire, as many didn't buy the Ki-61 because it was covered by modern kits over every possible average and they are justifiably satisfied with great kits released so far. Isn't recent release of Hurricane by Arma Hobby excellent proof of this? Market needed good Mk.I late and while Tamiya plays with well covered types, small manufacturer successfully steals the show.  Win for Arma and loss for Tamiya. This is so typical recurring case in business when large and established company has lousy R&D and goes down against almost start up competition.

Tamiya is large enough it wouldn't hurt it too much, but they just keep collecting wounds and scars, let's see for how long.

How many 1/72 kits have Tamiya made? A lot of kits is Italeri kits in Tamiya boxes... 

 

[Basuroy]

12 hours ago, Andre B said:

How many 1/72 kits have Tamiya made? A lot of kits is Italeri kits in Tamiya boxes... 

 

Many in fact - 
3 or 4 variants of Mitsubishi Zero.
Fw190A and D 
P-51D
Spitfire Mk.1
Ki-61
P-47 , both razorback and bubbletop
F-16
Mosquito - 3 variants
IL-2
F4u Corsair - three variants
Bf109E
109G-6  

There are two more Japanese single seater fighters whose name I cannot recall. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by Basuroy

[Procopius]

I am kinda wishing Scalemates had some form of citation system -- I do sort of wonder why we don't see more news about this anywhere. Makes me feel paranoid.

[Jeff.K]

It would be good if Scalemates was a bit more like Google Docs so you can see who posted/edited something. Maybe it has a downside in that if you post something like this you'd get inundated by messages. It's entirely possible that this entry is wishful thinking, an assumption based on their new 1/48 Spit (they've scaled kits down before) or a baseless rumor. Scalemates is basically a wiki, any schmoe can edit or add stuff, even me. Ideally another schmoe who's in the know would come along and correct any errors. 

That said, it's a plausible enough release for them, as their current Spit Mk. I is *not* highly regarded and they can scale down the 1/48 version. 

Regarding other aircraft mentioned in this thread, I'd love a good P-51B in either 1/72 or 1/32....  Is their 1/48 P-51B any good? It's quite old, isn't it?  My understanding is that KP missed the mark on the 1/72 P_51B a bit, but their wing combined with the Hasegawa fuselage is the current best option.  I'd be quite content if Arma (or a similar small company) went all in on getting the P-51B right in 1/72. 

Most reviewers were very positive about KP's new-tool Spit Vs, and they have a Vb and Vc. Neither this nor a new-tool, accurate Tamiya will cause me to dump the Sword Vcs in my stash as the shape looks quite good (even if they might turn out to be a bit of a 'short run experience'). I haven't compared the Academy 1/72 Storch to any plans but it looks like a decent kit. 

I'm also not dumping my Fine Molds BF-109G-6 for the Tamiya so if anyone knows of a tweak list let me know. 

[Dave Swindell]

On 3/3/2019 at 4:15 PM, Jeff.K said:

It would be good if Scalemates was a bit more like Google Docs so you can see who posted/edited something

 

On 3/3/2019 at 7:25 AM, Procopius said:

I am kinda wishing Scalemates had some form of citation system

It does / you can, but I don't think it's available to all users.

If you go to the product view page, under the photograph and to the right of the Facts listing are 5 buttons:-

Edit product

Add based on

History

Merge

Manage Stash

The History button gives details of all the edits done to that product, who did them, and when.

 

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

On ‎3‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 4:15 PM, Jeff.K said:

It would be good if Scalemates was a bit more like Google Docs so you can see who posted/edited something. Maybe it has a downside in that if you post something like this you'd get inundated by messages. It's entirely possible that this entry is wishful thinking, an assumption based on their new 1/48 Spit (they've scaled kits down before) or a baseless rumor. Scalemates is basically a wiki, any schmoe can edit or add stuff, even me. Ideally another schmoe who's in the know would come along and correct any errors. 

That said, it's a plausible enough release for them, as their current Spit Mk. I is *not* highly regarded and they can scale down the 1/48 version. 

Regarding other aircraft mentioned in this thread, I'd love a good P-51B in either 1/72 or 1/32....  Is their 1/48 P-51B any good? It's quite old, isn't it?  My understanding is that KP missed the mark on the 1/72 P_51B a bit, but their wing combined with the Hasegawa fuselage is the current best option.  I'd be quite content if Arma (or a similar small company) went all in on getting the P-51B right in 1/72. 

Most reviewers were very positive about KP's new-tool Spit Vs, and they have a Vb and Vc. Neither this nor a new-tool, accurate Tamiya will cause me to dump the Sword Vcs in my stash as the shape looks quite good (even if they might turn out to be a bit of a 'short run experience'). I haven't compared the Academy 1/72 Storch to any plans but it looks like a decent kit. 

I'm also not dumping my Fine Molds BF-109G-6 for the Tamiya so if anyone knows of a tweak list let me know. 

The Sword Spitfire Vc builds up fine.

 

thanks

Mike

[dfqweofekwpeweiop4]

On ‎3‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 8:51 AM, Tbolt said:

You need to remember that not everyone is an expert on a type and the majority of modellers are not that worried about a model being super accurate. Tamiya have name for great building experience, this is a hobby after all and a lot of modellers are looking for that. But the fact that their 1/48th Spit Mk.I is pretty accurate tells us that there is no reason ( unless they really screw up ) that this kit won't be accurate besides being a great build. So is it surprising that there's already a lot of people wanting to buy it? Not at all.

 

You say win for Arma Hobby and loss for Tamiya and Arma steals the shows, but I don't get that. Will the Arma Hurricane sell well, yes but I bet they Tamiya Spit will sell in far greater numbers, so I don't see how that is a loss for Tamiya. If Tamiya had bought out a Hurricane, that would have sold very well, but I bet not as well as this Spit. 

 

Also don't get caught up too much in this little world of ours - those of us that spend a lot of time in forums like this, reading up on kit, researching types etc, are a small percentage of the model buying public.

 

If you have a link to the accuracy problem of the Tamiya Bf109G-6 I would be interested to read. I like the Fine Models kit, but I'm not sure I would pick it over the Tamiya kit ( it doesn't help that there is no UK importer so getting the FM kit is expensive ).

 

 

Tiger Hobbies were importing Fine Molds last year, you'd have to ask them if they still are. It's still cheaper to buy one from HLJ though (inc post) and you won't get stung for import/handling fees as the kit value is less than £15.

 

thanks

Mike

[Graham Boak]

On 3/3/2019 at 6:37 AM, Basuroy said:

Many in fact - 
3 or 4 variants of Mitsubishi Zero.
Fw190A and D 
P-51D
Spitfire Mk.1
Ki-61
P-47 , both razorback and bubbletop
F-16
Mosquito - 3 variants
IL-2
F4u Corsair - three variants
Bf109E
109G-6  

There are two more Japanese single seater fighters whose name I cannot recall. 

 

Sorry, but that doesn't actually count as "many".  That's a handful compared to the products of many manufacturers, both large and small scale.  I would add that there have been other Tamiya kits that you haven't mentioned - the Tojo is one you meant - but even so Tamiya have never been a prolific contributor to the 1/72 scene.

[Tbolt]

25 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

Tiger Hobbies were importing Fine Molds last year, you'd have to ask them if they still are. It's still cheaper to buy one from HLJ though (inc post) and you won't get stung for import/handling fees as the kit value is less than £15.

 

thanks

Mike

Thanks Mike didn't know that, they seem to have stock of a few kits.