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wschurr

Lanc, Mossie, Tempest Camo

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I’m convinced most Spitfires and Hurricanes had hard edge camo. What do you guys have to say about Lancs, Mosquitoes and Tempests? It’s so hard to tell topside color demarcation.

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I've always found this photo interesting. The port side of the second wing from the bottom hits the light in a way that resembles, to me, the pattern that might be expected if a free-hand spray outline of the green pattern was done followed by a more regular back and forth in-fill spray.

 

De_Havilland_Mosquito_production_at_Hatf

 

My interpretation only.

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3 minutes ago, Crimea River said:

I've always found this photo interesting. The port side of the second wing from the bottom hits the light in a way that resembles, to me, the pattern that might be expected if a free-hand spray outline of the green pattern was done followed by a more regular back and forth in-fill spray.

 

De_Havilland_Mosquito_production_at_Hatf

 

My interpretation only.

 

I agree, that Dark Green has all the tell-tales of an outline shape later coloured in if only because the paint hasn't gone on full-wet up to the edge of the green panels.

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It would also depend on the scale you are modelling, however you can’t look past a photograph and those Mossie wings do look pretty soft edged to me. If you can master a good tight soft edge than I’d go with that. If you can’t, I’d prefer to see an accurate camo pattern rather than a large fuzzy one. Just my thoughts. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

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You can also see a similar effect on the Whirlwind below. Note also how soft the demarcation seems to be at the front of the port nacelle.

 

Whirlwind+Mk+I+P7048.jpg

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It is worth remembering that although at least some of the factories used masks, aircraft would be repainted as required at Maintenance Units, and I don't recall any suggestions that they used masks. The Whirlwind above is not in its original factory colours.  Perhaps others know where Whirlwinds were overhauled?

 

I have seen other examples where the outline has been sprayed first and then filled in.  I suspect that this was normal on larger aircraft at least, and possibly not rare on smaller ones too.

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1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

It is worth remembering that although at least some of the factories used masks, aircraft would be repainted as required at Maintenance Units, and I don't recall any suggestions that they used masks. The Whirlwind above is not in its original factory colours.  Perhaps others know where Whirlwinds were overhauled?

 

I have seen other examples where the outline has been sprayed first and then filled in.  I suspect that this was normal on larger aircraft at least, and possibly not rare on smaller ones too.

 I read somewhere in an old modelling magazine that the painter foreman was the one that drew the camouflage pattern with chalk, for the painter to follow and fill out. This is obviously a practice when mats were not used.

 

Come to think about it, does any one know how the mats were used? It's a possibility that the mats were only used to mark the pattern.

 

Edit: Looking at the Whirlwind, isn't that a colourized b/w photo? The red of the upperwing roundels seem different and there is different fields in the foreground but not in the background.  

 

/Finn

Edited by FinnAndersen

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2 hours ago, FinnAndersen said:

Edit: Looking at the Whirlwind, isn't that a colourized b/w photo? The red of the upperwing roundels seem different and there is different fields in the foreground but not in the background. 

It's in colour on the dust jacket of Victor Bingham's Whirlwind (Airlife, 1987), which I think predates colourising.  In fact, it's a Charles E Brown original, negative P100707: see p.15 of his Camera Above The Clouds Vol 3.  Brown was one of the very few British photographers able to obtain colour film during WW2.  The photo's dated 20/4/44, probably after it had been sold back to Westlands (it later became G-AGOI) after service with 137 Sq.

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1 hour ago, Seahawk said:

It's in colour on the dust jacket of Victor Bingham's Whirlwind (Airlife, 1987), which I think predates colourising.  In fact, it's a Charles E Brown original, negative P100707: see p.15 of his Camera Above The Clouds Vol 3.  Brown was one of the very few British photographers able to obtain colour film during WW2.  The photo's dated 20/4/44, probably after it had been sold back to Westlands (it later became G-AGOI) after service with 137 Sq.

Thank, I'm happy to be corrected. My feeble excuse is that there's so many pictures that has been "altered" that you automatically assume it.

 

With that digression out of the way, we should get back on topic. The question was about hard and soft edge camouflage demarcation.

 

/Finn

Edited by FinnAndersen

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It appears that these A/C have a very fine feathered edge. With regards to the Whirlwind, "colour halos" lastly ,here is a modern A/C with the camouflage demarcations sprayed with a tight boundary and the interior of the camouflage area  then filled in. Very visible in certain lighting. HTH

AmmG2Kw.jpgKN4XyiY.jpgnaipYK7.jpgLBV8GdL.jpgsJyIP4H.jpgVP4TqPb.jpg

Edited by pat d

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Hey You  Guys,

 Great discussion and I tend to agree that on bunches of RAF stuff, upper colors especially were tightly free handed. I appreciate all of your comments.

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IMHO all ther nice pictures above (thanks for sharing !) show some of the aspects that wrre higlighted in the recent thread on camouflage edges on the Spitfire.

First is how to reproduce these in model form... a very tight feathered edges can be seen in some pictures, but how easy is it to reproduce this on a scale model ? How realistic would a feathered edge be ? Here we have feathered edges that are evident from close-up but will likely be invisible from a distance. Ideally the same effect on a model would require a very, very tight edge. IMHO a hard edge would be more realistic than an overwide feathered edge if the modeller has to choose between the two.

Then there's the edge between upper and lower surfaces... this is hard even when the edge between upper camo colours is feathered (see for examle the Typhoon). I've  often wondered why this happened, wonder if there was any rationale behind this or was just the way things were done

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1 hour ago, Giorgio N said:

 Ideally the same effect on a model would require a very, very tight edge. IMHO a hard edge would be more realistic than an overwide feathered edge if the modeller has to choose between the two.

Amen!  Well, at least in 1/72 (other scales are reportedly available).  I have seen models that are to my eyes ruined by vastly overscale feathering that looks more like some of the blended finishes the RAE experimented with (eg for PR Mosquitoes).  But each to his own, of course.

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These last two posts say it all in my opinion. It’s good knowing how it should look, but how it’s scaled down in model form is the tricky part. 

 

Threads like this are very educational and it’s nice to see this one still a ‘discussion’ rather than another ‘spat’ of sorts. 

 

Cheers.. Dave (who is still doing 1/72 hard edges only because that’s were my skills are currently at!) 

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