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Troy Smith

Hurricane 501 Sq, Betheniville, France - interesting details

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While perusing  the IWM Site for image for the P3886 thread,  I looked through all the images credited to "Devon S A (Mr)
Royal Air Force official photographer"

which turned up some classic images, but using a bit of logic,  that images related by squadron and/place are most likely taken at the same time,  but are not usually displayed together. 

 

case in point,  

mid_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs ROYAL AIR FORCE: FRANCE, 1939-1940.. © IWM (C 1682) IWM Non Commercial License

 

better seen, though the enlarge facilty on the IWM site is helpful, as you can se the serial is P254? (either 3, 5 or 9) 

large_000000.jpg

 

Aircraft letter is L (under nose), 501 Sq is SD,  so the starboard side read L-SD (the D is just visible)  

Another shot show the port would read SD-L 

Pole aerial, De Havilland Hurricane prop

Ealrly Gloster built, showing typically poor paint adhesion, not bear metal near tip light and stripped behind gun ports.

Underwing streaking behind shell ejector is also of note, as well as dirty (oil?) side to radiator bath.  (check the link as the enlarge really bring this out) 

I'll edit in a few more with comments later

 

mid_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs ROYAL AIR FORCE: FRANCE, 1939-1940.. © IWM (C 1684) IWM Non Commercial License

 

large_000000.jpg

very well known image, not the same plane as above as different antenna mast and a Rotol prop.

One detail I only caught from the enlarge, just visible on the "S" is a hand, flat against the hand hold, and the other hand is about to push up the footstep (you need to check the enlarge for this)

Note the two tone camouflage on the Albion refueller, GMF685, visible on the bonnet, assume Khaki Green G3 and Dark Green G4?   Also gas detector patch.

The enlarge shows some data painted, size of vehicle,  above the spare wheel. Note extended rear wheel hub, for use as power take off ?

I think I saw a brief clip of film of a 501 Sq plane which looked very like this.

 

 

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A pair

 

mid_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs ROYAL AIR FORCE: FRANCE, 1939-1940.. © IWM (C 1551) IWM Non Commercial License

 

large_000000.jpg

 

mid_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs ROYAL AIR FORCE: FRANCE, 1939-1940.. © IWM (C 1546) IWM Non Commercial License

Quote

A Hawker Hurricane Mark I flown by Flight Lieutenant J E "Ian" Scoular, commander of 'B' Flight, No. 73 Squadron RAF, being refuelled and re-armed between sorties at Reims-Champagne.

 

large_000000.jpg

 

note lack of code letters, so this is a very new replacement plane...

one real cracking anorak detail, look at the radiator flap....

yep, half white/half black....  never seen that before!

 

 

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I wrote you a message in flickr answer it. I'll send you a photo of 501 Squadron

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I've never seen that on the inside of the rad flap either. Someone really took their instructions too seriously that day!

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13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

While perusing  the IWM Site for image for the P3886 thread,  I looked through all the images credited to "Devon S A (Mr) Royal Air Force official photographer"

which turned up some classic images, but using a bit of logic,  that images related by squadron and/place are most likely taken at the same time,  but are not usually displayed together. 

 

case in point,  

mid_000000.jpg?action=e&cat=photographs ROYAL AIR FORCE: FRANCE, 1939-1940.. © IWM (C 1682) IWM Non Commercial License

 

better seen, though the enlarge facilty on the IWM site is helpful, as you can se the serial is P254? (either 3, 5 or 9) 

Pole aerial, De Havilland Hurricane prop

Ealrly Gloster built, showing typically poor paint adhesion, not bear metal near tip light and stripped behind gun ports.

Thank you Troy,

 

quoting myself from this thread:

"Concerning early Hurricanes, Robertson wrote that Hurricanes in the Gloster production run, up to P2681, had 2-blade Watts propeller, then from P2682 3-blade Rotols. Considering black-out serial blocks we are talking of exactly 100 aircraft: P2535-P2584, P2614-P2653, P2672-P2681. He also also noted that "first 100 had TR9D, rest TR1133". In the end, this would mean 100 aircraft with 2-blade Watts propeller and TR9D HF radio. This change from the early pre-war fit to the latest configuration with constant-speed propeller and VHF radio seems incredible."

 

Whatever the serial (I'd go for P2545), this Hurricane is among the first 100 aircraft in the first Gloster production run, and it does have the pole aerial for the early TR9D radio. I expect the Watts propeller would have been replaced by the DH variable pitch before issue to a squadron so, seemingly, we have one hint in favour of Bruce Robertson. Four-slot wheels and metal wings (checked using the IWM enlarge facility). 

 

So, perhaps I should stop elaborating on what more knowledgeable people have written, and just keep checking facts.

 

Claudio

 

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Hi

Just a bit of information requarding the first  photo of  a  501 sqn   aircraft.  Many moons ago I saw a video (shows how long ago it was) anyway I replayed it and it showed

this particular aircraft taxing past the camera so I noted down the details.  It had a mixture of markings. it has the L under the nose but the fuselarge codes read SD_A.

The serial was definitely    P2545 , it has a 35"  fuselarge  A1 ,  the SD code was 24"and square style  and the A aft of the roundel was 30". the fin flash had 7" stripes.

The rest of the details are as mentioned in the other comments.

I hope this may be of interest

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When was the 4-spoke hub introduced ? I never cared much but would have "felt" it came much later.

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4 hours ago, tempestfan said:

When was the 4-spoke hub introduced ? I never cared much but would have "felt" it came much later.

From photos, from the P**** serials,  so early 1940,  the only 5 spoke I have seen are on the L**** and N**** serials (first two batches) after that it's  all  4 spoke.

 

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Thanks Troy - a clear case of better looking at Things... Possibly I was influenced by the Spit, which I think continued with the 5-spoke into the Mk II.

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