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TGA

Best starter 1/8 model kit

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53 minutes ago, Pascal said:

Yes, the single A-pillar mounted mirror was only installed on early Testarossa's.

 

I've build 2 Pocher TR's and 5 F-40's. Curious to find out what you find wrong about the TR kit.

I built it a long time ago, when it was first released , but I struggled with the TR trying to make look less like a big Bburago  diecast. I do remember filing the rear uprights for ever to get rid of the joint line. As I said , not pleasant.

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56 minutes ago, Jo NZ said:

I built it a long time ago, when it was first released , but I struggled with the TR trying to make look less like a big Bburago  diecast. I do remember filing the rear uprights for ever to get rid of the joint line. As I said , not pleasant.

What's wrong with Bburago Jo? :P

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4 hours ago, Pascal said:

Yes, the single A-pillar mounted mirror was only installed on early Testarossa's.

 

I've build 2 Pocher TR's and 5 F-40's. Curious to find out what you find wrong about the TR kit.

Pascal, as an expert, highly skilled builder, I doubt you built any of those to out-of-box condition. As a first-time 1/8 builder might. The big knock from my standpoint about these early Pocher exotics is that they exude the 'Burago' (nothing wrong with a Burago - in 1/18 scale) or Tonka Truck -look when finished. Hard plastic tires, toy-like suspension and poor engine and  interior rendering. Mis-matched and debris-filled paint on diecast body (on my example) meant complete stripping and refinishing.  They all lack the better detail and finer castings of the later generation Aventadors or Huracans. Which even they get super-detailing by experienced builders.

Have a look at Wayne's F-40 build to see the lengths he is going through to improve this Pocher exotic:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235018658-pocher-f40-with-autograph-transkit-upgrade-challenge-build/

 

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Thanks for the mention Codger. It probably should be mentioned that the transkit that’s being used to upgrade the F-40 was 2-3 times the cost of the kit on eBay and it has over 2000+ pieces. I’m even using extra hardware not in the transkit. When I do finally finish it, I’m hoping that it will be a good representation of the type of F-40 I’m going for. 

I’m also building or, put on hold a TR that got started prior to the F-40. I used a transkit on it for the engine and it looks great but after doing all the modifications to the F-40 frame and suspension I can see that the TR is going to need similar work to justify the engine. 

Fortunately, Pascal has done a lot of the same type of upgrade on some F-40’s by scratch building the parts that, I used PE for and, has shown that it’s possible to get as good as or better results from scratch building as using the transkit. My eventual plan for the TR is to follow his lead on how to fabricate the parts but, do so on the TR in order to get rid of the big toy like look.

 I’m also working on the Alfa Monza off and on but, I haven’t started a thread on it. My first Pocher was the K91 Mercedes true roadster. Which is about 35-40 pages long somewhere here in the WIP section and is actually finished. 

My best and only advice is if you choose one of the classics you must get the Paul Koo dvd for that model. Whether you choose to build it out of the box or make changes that dvd will be invaluable. Good luck with your choice.

W

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1 hour ago, larchiefeng said:

Thanks for the mention Codger. It probably should be mentioned that the transkit that’s being used to upgrade the F-40 was 2-3 times the cost of the kit on eBay and it has over 2000+ pieces. I’m even using extra hardware not in the transkit. When I do finally finish it, I’m hoping that it will be a good representation of the type of F-40 I’m going for. 

I’m also building or, put on hold a TR that got started prior to the F-40. I used a transkit on it for the engine and it looks great but after doing all the modifications to the F-40 frame and suspension I can see that the TR is going to need similar work to justify the engine. 

Fortunately, Pascal has done a lot of the same type of upgrade on some F-40’s by scratch building the parts that, I used PE for and, has shown that it’s possible to get as good as or better results from scratch building as using the transkit. My eventual plan for the TR is to follow his lead on how to fabricate the parts but, do so on the TR in order to get rid of the big toy like look.

 

Emphasis above is mine:

Thank you Wayne for the input and the details on what you (and Pascal) feel is needed for accurate representations of these cars. Much of what you added is scratch built even beyond the transkits.

Again, my purpose was to get Tom started in one-eighth scale in a satisfying and inexpensive manner.

Either of these cars could easily disappoint on initial inspection (and wind up sold or stored) OR become major, extreme projects to produce a satisfying result for the builder. Hardly an introductory experience.

Tom, the real 'dirty secret' to Pocher's is that all of them have their quirks and inaccuracies, compounded by being decades-old parts - one only need browse the (fabulous) builds presented here. Starting with the 'easiest' with acceptable accuracy is prudent in my view to avoid expensive disappointment. :nono:

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Thank you for your answer Codger. I was under the impression that your answer was gonna be about general shapes and lines of the TR kit.

 

I totally agree that an OOB finished Pocher TR looks like a big Bburago (or even not as good as a Bburago).

 

In my opinion a Pocher TR is good (if you can find a cheap one, let's say 80-100 euros) to get experience with building a big scale model.

 

You can build it without glue nor paint, you can take it apart and put it back together (well most of it anyway).

 

That makes it a candidate for a starter 1/8 model kit, as long as one doesn't expect a good finished model.

 

But I should have read the topic starter's first post a bit better :

 

On 2/11/2019 at 8:59 AM, TGA said:

Since a lot of people have been saying 1:8 is the way to go and I love the idea of being able to super detail things I was wondering what you guys would consider a good 1:8 model to start with (that isn't overly expensive). What are your thoughts? 

 

Yes a Pocher Ferrari is a poor base kit. And if you consider the costs to super detail one of those kits, the answer is a definite : NO, it's not a good 1:8 model to start with.

 

Just the hundreds of tiny hexagonal bolts and nuts that are needed to add some detail, are expensive.

 

Sorry for the confusion that I caused with my previous answer.

 

Sincerely

 

Pascal

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On 2/13/2019 at 6:59 PM, TGA said:

I'll definitely look into it. I have stumbled across a big Pocher collection for sale. Might be worth investing in and selling on the kits I don't want...

So Tom, after advice from these experts have you drawn a conclusion? Any luck purchasing this collection? Certainly seems a great idea.

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43 minutes ago, Codger said:

So Tom, after advice from these experts have you drawn a conclusion? Any luck purchasing this collection? Certainly seems a great idea.

Hello again my friend. Unfortunately I have had no luck so far but I will give it another shot when I'm home again. I'm at least 100% sure it's not going to be a Pocher Testarossa because I feel like it wouldn't really be worth my while. I have still got a massive crush on the Bugatti T50, which is just gorgeous. However, having said that, that Rolls Royce Torpedo has a massive pull as well with all its beautiful chrome bodywork..... Only time will tell what I'll end up doing, I have a few out of the box ideas floating around as well! 

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27 minutes ago, TGA said:

 However, having said that, that Rolls Royce Torpedo has a massive pull as well with all its beautiful chrome bodywork..... Only time will tell what I'll end up doing, I have a few out of the box ideas floating around as well! 

Go to the Cox Detailed Model Cars site I gave you above and see David's 188 PY Star of India Torpedo for inspiration. It's a near-exact copy of original and has vacuum plated hoods, wings and spares - gorgeous.

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By way of emphasizing Pascal's point regarding the Pocher Testarossa, here is the build thread that, I started on my Testarossa upgrade build. It illustrates some of the challenges of buying a used car and trying to upgrade it. I haven't totally abandoned it but, it's on a very back burner at the moment. Here's the link to the thread if you are interested.

 

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On 21 February 2019 at 8:09 PM, TGA said:

I have still got a massive crush on the Bugatti T50, which is just gorgeous. 

I've just seen an unbuilt one sell in auction here in the UK for about  ............ £750 including buyer's premium!!!!!

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5 hours ago, larchiefeng said:

By way of emphasizing Pascal's point regarding the Pocher Testarossa, here is the build thread that, I started on my Testarossa upgrade build. It illustrates some of the challenges of buying a used car and trying to upgrade it. I haven't totally abandoned it but, it's on a very back burner at the moment. Here's the link to the thread if you are interested.

 

I just read through all of this and it really got me interested in doing something similar. I really hope you will update your TR build in the future. 

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Sorry for hijacking this topic, just wanted to let you know: Thanks to you guys i sank a lot of money today on ebay. Ouch. Did not expect the seller to go with my offer. Ouch again... So a F40 will be my first step into the great world of 1:8. I'll be begging for help all the time...

 

Or maybe I should try to resell asap. Not sure yet.

Edited by Schwarz-Brot

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2 hours ago, Schwarz-Brot said:

 So a F40 will be my first step into the great world of 1:8. I'll be begging for help all the time...

 

Or maybe I should try to resell asap. Not sure yet.

Then read every word of this:

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235018658-pocher-f40-with-autograph-transkit-upgrade-challenge-build/&tab=comments#comment-2670038

 

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14 hours ago, Codger said:

I already read that thread several times before even thinking of going for a big kit. This and Pascals Topics are bookmarked for sure. I'll take a look in the box when it arrives and then will decide if I go for it or resell to get me a MFH kit I have on my wishlist for quite a while.
I already wrote Autograph to see if the F40 Transkit will be re-released anytime soon. I'd not bet on that. Tommaso Iuele seems to be another good bet, but who knows when the Transkit will finally be released? So if anyone knows of different options, let me know...

Dank u wel, TGA!

 

1 hour ago, TGA said:

Gutentag herr Brot and good luck! 


Dank u wel, TGA!

 

Best wishes,

Jan

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The Autograph transkit that I got was part of a special re-release of about 20 that Uli decided to put together with all the spare parts that he had left over from the approximately 200 of the original release of F-40 transkits. I think that once those were sold that was it. I’m pretty sure that the only way to get one now is from someone who has one. I do know where a new one of the re-release kits is but, I think that he’s saving for a future build.

As far as Tomas Iulie is concerned, he’s been pretty talking about making a F-40 transkit for 3-4 years and still nothing. I doubt that we’ll see one any time soon from him. 

I was also looking for the LM transkit for the F-40 and only one has come up in the last three years on eBay and it went for about $2,000.00 and it’s mainly just some resin parts with 3-4 PE frets. The Autograph transkit was around $1,600.00 and has around 10 PE frets and a whole lot of other parts. 

I also have another transkit for the interior that is for an LM version interior. 

Before everything got messed up at Thunder Valley F1, I managed to get some parts from him but, it took a few months of pushing and sending emails to get the order that I had paid for. However, when I did get my order he made up for it by giving me extra parts. He has good stuff but, don’t count on getting anything quickly. I haven’t talked to him in over a year so, I don’t know what he is doing now.

If you have read my thread on the F-40 then you know all the challenges that I’ve had with the transkit instructions or lack thereof. 

Bottom line, it’s building into everything that you would want a detailed Pocher F-40 to be, albeit being a very challenging build! 

There’s a few smaller transkits out there and some engine upgrade kits and in the absence of the big Autograph transkit, those along with what Pascal has been doing, you should be able to do a good job of detailing up the F-40. I’m sure that both of us can be of help to you as you move forward.

 I hope that helps.

 

 

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No order confirmation yet. But if I'm lucky I got me something BIG. Oh dear, no more thinking of giving away the Pocher anymore.

 

larchifeng, thank you for your input. I'll constantly come back to you, if you're fine with that.

Edited by Schwarz-Brot

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No problem, I’m always available to help with anything you need. You can always PM me too. I assume that you will be starting a thread for this build too? I will answer you either through your thread or via a PM, just let me know.

Good luck with your big deal! Kinda sounds like you got a hold of Uli or someone with a transkit to sell. 

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Sounds good, I'll be looking forward to your new thread. Since I don't look at the forum every day and lately, much less than that, when you do start it please post a link to it here so I can follow it. Thanks

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It just occurred to me that, we sort of high jacked your thread TGA, sorry. Have you decided what you want to do yet?

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To get back on Topic: I today received my unbuilt yellow Pocher F40. It was an expensive kit to get in the first place and after going through every single part I am not sure what to think of it. I inspected every part on every sprue - the box was opened as advertised, so I wanted to be sure everything was there and not started. Thus I now know what I speak of.

My impression is this Pocher is a pretty basic kit despite the parts count and size. It is like a 1/24 Heller or Revell or Italeri kit from the nineties, just larger and with some beautifull heavy metal parts for the body. In that scale with that pricetag I find it unacceptable to have metal parts with louvres that are not even opened. This would have been no real difference to produce (I know a fair bit about casting metal parts, so I am confident to say so). The sprues are of inconsistent quality. Some show lots of flash, some are pretty nice. All shapes look a bit soft overall in my eyes, not as crisp as I would expect in that scale.

 

So I conclude without lots of scratchbuilding and/or even more expensive Transkit one gets a pretty huge (yes, HUGE!) toy car. This is indeed going to be a large Bburago if built OOB. I therefore would not again go for a Pocher (the F40 was the only appealing model to me, anyway). Was I to do another large scale I'd chose from the way cheaper plastic kits offered by the usual suspects. I expect these to need about the same level of detailling to get something really impressive, but why bother? The only difference I see is in weight on the shelf, and initial money burnt.

If I was again willing to pay the price of a new Pocher I'd go for a MFH kit as these cost about the same or just a tad more but give impressive results right OOB. If I want lots of scratchbuilding I'd go with a cheapo large scale plastic kit. If I want something to just throw together (as the Pocher allows for OOB), I'd chose any small scale kit by the usual manufacturers. If money does not matter, just do what you like.

 

Just my oppinion, I do not intend to offend. But since this thread triggered my start into the large scales I wanted to share. I hope this helps with decision making for those that are in the same situation - not knowing where and how to start.

 

Jan

Edited by Schwarz-Brot

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I guess that you have a choice to make; sell the F-40 and buy the MFH kit or something like it or try and get an Autograph transkit to super detail the F-40. Have you given it any thought?

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