FHC FW190A-5 colors

[anj4de]

Hello all

 

I am about to start painting an Eduard new mold A-5 light fighter...I want to portray the FHC A-5...and am curious what colors to use. I am sure the plane was deliverd in 74/75/76 but what about the colors it has now? I have found an article mentioning..." in 1943 this would likely have comprised some variation/combinations of Dunkelbraun and Oliv Grun. ( 76 lower and 79/81/82 uppersurfaces)"... but I have my doubts here. I am not aware of RLM81/82 already being in use in 43...not to mention for a locally made paint job on the eastern front. What would the experts recommend here...RLM79 would be possible...but the other two?

 

thanks

Uwe

[Troy Smith]

Hmm, There are thread on the colours thy found during restoration, pretty sure thye were on hyperscale, including shots of the bits beforehand.   When i feel my google fu is working I'll see what I can turn up, but otehr may be able to point you in the right direction,  @FalkeEins and  @tank152 might know

 

Correct, 81/82 are not 1943 colours, but there has been speculation in the past that they are similar or the same as the prewar colours, 61/62

 

this is possibly similar

 

for comparison

 

I'll see if i can find what I remember on this...

 

PS EDIT  see posts below, but re JG 54...

 

 

same sequence, different colour balance, this is greyed out, (compare the green hearts)

Fw 190 JG 54 1942 JEC 05406 Maker: L David by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

 

and from http://109lair.hobbyvista.com/articles/color/color_ostfront.htm

Quote

When it comes to color schemes, JG54 threw the book out the window.  Their aircraft carried an amazing variety of field-modified schemes, and this stunning example is no different.  What is that brown color?  That doesn't appear to be a standard RLM color...maybe RLM26, but that would be highly unusual at best. 

Everything about this aircraft contradicts "popular" conceptions of 109s and their markings...note the Gruppe bar is FORWARD of the T.O. circle, and the Stab chevron is AFT of the fuselage Balkankreuz.  And that isn't all...look at the photo of the fin, and how the six kill bars reflect in the polished surface of the stabilizers.  Is it any wonder that JG54 aircraft are so popular with Luftwaffe modelers?

 

[Sturmovik]

Had to look up for what you wanted. 

I would recommend using dark brown, olive green and RLM 70 for the upper surfaces. Try also looking for the brown and green used by the Soviet Air Force, maybe you can land an exact match for the aircraft you want.

The underside colours looks very light blue, maybe RLM 65? 

Edited February 9, 2019 by Sturmovik

[Troy Smith]

3 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

he underside colours looks very light blue, maybe RLM 65? 

RLM 76, not repainted

OK, this is part of it, though the pics have gone

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/hi-does-anyone-know-the-true-story-behind-this-fw--t128079.html#p740590

read the whole story in the link, this bit on colours

Quote

Although the yellow theatre markings might have been painted prior to delivery to 4./JG54, the original camouflage was painted over. It was standard procedure to paint over the factory finished colours of RLM74 Gray Green and RLM75 Gray Violet which covered the top surface. The sides on this A5 which had a base of RLM02 gray with mottling of RLM74 and RLM75 going down to the RLM76 Light Blue to the underside. As these colours were unsuitable for the Leningrad area of the Russian Front, JG54 applied a unique three colour combination. JG54 were known to experiment with different colour combinations. The colour combination generally followed the original demarcation lines and consisted of a dark green, brown violet and tan (sand) which was more suited to the forests areas of Northern Russia. ('new' colours as listed in Ken Merricks book). 
To this was applied yellow theatre bands to the underside of the wing tips, outside of the lower cross, to the lower quadrant of the rudder, around the fuselage cross and to the lower engine cowlings. The last area to be touch up was to the underside blue to hide the last two remaining letters of the factory codes (the others were under the yellow wing tips) and to apply the tactical letter of a 'White A'. 

 

I'll see if I can find the colours matches recommended /documented

[Graham Boak]

Over the years there has been a lot of guesswork applied to these schemes based on the surviving colour photographs, but when Ken Merrick was allowed to see the surviving parts of one of these aircraft, he described seeing what looked like the prewar colour 62 green,  with other areas of 61 and 79.  The undersurface colour was indeed 76.  He came to the conclusion that the RLM were experimenting with new colours 81/82/83 based on the prewar colours 61/62/64 and were using JG54 to do this.  This aircraft crashed in July 1943: the new colours 81 and 82 were ready for introduction into production in August 1943.

 

Source'  Classic "Luftwaffe Colours and Markings 1933-45 vol.1.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Graham Boak

[Sturmovik]

3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

RLM 76, not repainted

OK, this is part of it, though the pics have gone

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/hi-does-anyone-know-the-true-story-behind-this-fw--t128079.html#p740590

read the whole story in the link, this bit on colours

 

I'll see if I can find the colours matches recommended /documented

Very interesting, I've always read of RLM 76 as being a light blue grey colour, that's why I got confused, it looks really blue on this 190.

[Troy Smith]

OK, in light of Graham posting,  here's the one I was thinking of

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/hyperscale/fw-190a-5-wnr-1227-4-jg-54-paint-and-restoration-d-t172736.html

I have not re-read the whole thread,  it goes on for 12 pages,  

 

but here's some shots (from above) of the unrestored plane, which may help

 

 

HTH

[Troy Smith]

7 minutes ago, Sturmovik said:

Very interesting, I've always read of RLM 76 as being a light blue grey colour, that's why I got confused, it looks really blue on this 190.

RLM 76 varies,  and late war, a lot...

 

both the underside colours here are are RLM 76  the greeny shade is the one that has been  nicknamed "RLM 84"

 

Fw 190 A-8 Gefr Walter Wagener 5 Sturm JG4 Saint Trond 01-01-1945 JEC 07075 by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

 

there are a bunch of ww2 original colour shots in the Flickr the above is from, as is this

 

it can appear near white,  note the Fw 190 wreck and the Bf109 tail underside colour

Fw 190 JEC 02425 by Jeffrey Ethell Collection, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 

[Crimea River]

I kept an article from Classic Wings (Issue 80)  from a few years back that described the painting process on this particular restoration. They did not get into RLM colour selections but rather matched the paints to actual remnants on the aircraft. The article states "Using skin pieces from the actual wreck as a guide, a dark green, bright olive, and mid-range brown were mixed to the shades observed on the downed aircraft." The article touches on evidence that the paint was applied over the factory 74/75/76 finish and also notes how some areas such as the w/n were masked whereas some areas (swastika) were free-hand sprayed around leaving the 76 background visible.

 

Ullmann here suggests that custom paint mixes were created at the unit level using available stocks of camouflage and marking paints. The mid brown, he says, could be RLM 23 mixed with 25 Green. Using this theory, I could image the bright olive to be 71 mixed with 04 and the dark green straight 70 or 71. Ullmann says there would be no way to determine what the exact colours would have been so perhaps the best that you can do in this situation is to believe that the restorers indeed tried their best to match existing colours, weathered and aged as they may have been.

[Touvdal]

7 hours ago, Crimea River said:

I kept an article from Classic Wings (Issue 80)  from a few years back that described the painting process on this particular restoration. They did not get into RLM colour selections but rather matched the paints to actual remnants on the aircraft. The article states "Using skin pieces from the actual wreck as a guide, a dark green, bright olive, and mid-range brown were mixed to the shades observed on the downed aircraft." The article touches on evidence that the paint was applied over the factory 74/75/76 finish and also notes how some areas such as the w/n were masked whereas some areas (swastika) were free-hand sprayed around leaving the 76 background visible.

 

Ullmann here suggests that custom paint mixes were created at the unit level using available stocks of camouflage and marking paints. The mid brown, he says, could be RLM 23 mixed with 25 Green. Using this theory, I could image the bright olive to be 71 mixed with 04 and the dark green straight 70 or 71. Ullmann says there would be no way to determine what the exact colours would have been so perhaps the best that you can do in this situation is to believe that the restorers indeed tried their best to match existing colours, weathered and aged as they may have been.

I think that Ullmann teori is good and have used the 71 mixed with 04, because it was easy to mix a color using what was easy to obtain from stock. 

 

I have used the mix 71/04 on this model together with 70.

 

 

 

cheers

Jes

[k5054nz]

I eyeballed and used Tamiya acrylics out of the bottle - close enough for me!

Untitled by Zac Yates, on Flickr

[Holzhamer]

I painted mine 70/71 and a mixed 79 that is considerably paler. All are Gunze.

 

 

In my workbench I’m refurbishing the Hasegawa A-5 as to use a new decal option from Exito decals, and they call for a 71/63 greens on the upper side camo. 

Who can dispute whatever shades you use?

[Niknak]

The luftwaffe made use of captured russian paint stocks. the green colours could  be rlm 71 and russian amt-4 green .thats the colours i used .nick

 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Niknak