Tornado Warning STGB Chat

[Andwil]

This group build has raised an interesting question in my mind.  There are a number of Tornados being built, in various scales and from various kit producers, yet a common theme across the threads is poor fit and builds being fiddly and a bit of a fight.  So, is the a Tornado a difficult subject to kit?  Is it because of the box like fuselage coupled with swing wings?

 

Interested in the views of others.

 

AW

[alhenderson]

34 minutes ago, Andwil said:

This group build has raised an interesting question in my mind.  There are a number of Tornados being built, in various scales and from various kit producers, yet a common theme across the threads is poor fit and builds being fiddly and a bit of a fight.  So, is the a Tornado a difficult subject to kit?  Is it because of the box like fuselage coupled with swing wings?

 

Interested in the views of others.

 

AW

My experience of the Revell 1:72 GR.1 is certainly that.  I don't think its down to the Tornado being a difficult subject, the kit just seems to lack quality in a lot of ways.  There's a lot of thin plastic surrounding the parts which need removing, and the clear parts in particular are really badly moulded.  There are a number of parts smaller than the canopy, but its practically impossible to tell what they are - just lumps of clear plastic.  There also seems to be a desire to make the thing more complex than it needs to be - wings and pylons that move for instance.  There's little to no chance that I am ever going to move the wings as I'll be afraid of breaking them.  I'd be happy to have them fixed in place.  Same for the horizontal satabiliser assembly where you use a hot knife to melt the plastic join.

 

To be fair, though, my main problem was a warped fuselage which was probably just bad luck,  and that has exposed my poor filling/sanding/finishing skills.

 

I suppose if they all just fell together there wouldn't be the same satisfaction?

 

Al.

[Tim Moff]

58 minutes ago, alhenderson said:

My experience of the Revell 1:72 GR.1 is certainly that.  I don't think its down to the Tornado being a difficult subject, the kit just seems to lack quality in a lot of ways.  There's a lot of thin plastic surrounding the parts which need removing, and the clear parts in particular are really badly moulded.  There are a number of parts smaller than the canopy, but its practically impossible to tell what they are - just lumps of clear plastic.  There also seems to be a desire to make the thing more complex than it needs to be - wings and pylons that move for instance.  There's little to no chance that I am ever going to move the wings as I'll be afraid of breaking them.  I'd be happy to have them fixed in place.  Same for the horizontal satabiliser assembly where you use a hot knife to melt the plastic join.

 

To be fair, though, my main problem was a warped fuselage which was probably just bad luck,  and that has exposed my poor filling/sanding/finishing skills.

 

I suppose if they all just fell together there wouldn't be the same satisfaction?

 

Al.

 

 

I agree - last time I build the 1/72 Revell kit it did seem a tad over engineered for 1/72. Will see how I get on this time!

[At Sea]

IMHO the Tornado suffers from the fact that it is a swing wing aircraft with lots of moveable surfaces.

 

Comparatively the Phantom has just as complex a fuselage cross section, but the wing can be kitted as a 3 part unit that includes most of the underside.  

 

The Tornado requires the wings to be posable, plus the attachment points are in the way of the intake trunking.  It has an aerodynamically complex wing, a all moving tail and a big glass house.

Even Hasegawa couldn't make the F-14 an easy kit to build well.  It took Tamiya and a lot of modern tooling to do that.

 

If the Tornado had been used by more world airforces, or stationed in Japan then Tamiya may have a go.  But in 1/48 it has been left to Airfix, Revell, Italeri and Hobby Boss, with the result that there are compromises.

 

I have lots of the Revell 1/48 kit and it builds up well if you are very careful and patient.  I have looked at the Hobby Boss kit but wasn't impressed.  The Airfix kit was bad 25 years ago.   Not tried the Italeri one in 1/48.

 

Also don't forget it took until THIS YEAR to get a really good Spitfire in 1/48 (I prefer Eduard's offering to Tamiya but we are blessed with the choice) and only really with the SWS ZM Phantom series are we getting accurate F-4 models which improve on the 1980's Hasegawa offering.

 

Personally I'd have preferred it if Revell had concentrated on fit and finish rather than wings slats etc...  But it is still a good kit for an averagely talented modeller.

[exdraken]

6 hours ago, At Sea said:

 

 

The Tornado requires the wings to be posable, plus the attachment points are in the way of the intake trunking.  It has an aerodynamically complex wing, a all moving tail and a big glass house.

Even Hasegawa couldn't make the F-14 an easy kit to build well.  It took Tamiya and a lot of modern tooling to do that.

 

 

Personally I'd have preferred it if Revell had concentrated on fit and finish rather than wings slats etc...  But it is still a good kit for an averagely talented modeller.

very true!

 

Tamiya also took the easy way for the Tomcat, not providing a dirty wing configuration at all.... and the Tomcat basically comes in 1 and a half versions only. (engines make the only relevant difference)

on the Tornado you want IDS (+ECR) and F versions (different nose area, differenet fin, different belly ), with deployable airbrakes, thrust reversers, wings ....

 

still Revell could probably have done a bit better for their 48scale effort...

[At Sea]

It's a shame that all the work that AMK put into their Tomcat didn't go on a Tornado because I guess their market share of 1/48 Tomcat's at £70 has been seriously pinched!

[Col.]

20 hours ago, At Sea said:

If the Tornado had been used by more world airforces, or stationed in Japan then Tamiya may have a go.

Another compelling reason why the JASDF should have got the Tornado F.3 rather than F-15  

[At Sea]

4 hours ago, Col. said:

Another compelling reason why the JASDF should have got the Tornado F.3 rather than F-15  

Looking at some of the JASDF Phantom paint schemes that's a heck of a What If Build...

 

"So impressed with British engineering after Honda & Rover engineers joined forces for the XX project which begat the Rover 800 & Honda Legend that the Japanese government looked at other areas where they could integrate with British industry.

As BAe were in the process of buying Austin Rover and Honda was branching into Aircraft manufacture it was decided to allow the licence production of the UK made components of the Tornado F.3 by Honda in Japan.

MBB & Aeritalia would complete their sections, these would be shipped to Japan and the completion of the work was done by HASD (Honda Air & Space Developement).

The Tornado F.3J was uniquely suited to the long over sea patrol and interception work required by the JASDF, similar as it was to the defence of UK-Air by the RAF.

 

All Training of JASDF crews was carried out by TTTE & by the JASDF shadow squadron based at Leuchars.

 

The Tornado F.3J continued into service until early this year when after the failure of the F35 project the JASDF leased ex-Austrian Airforce Typhoons and joined the Tempest project."

[Col.]

58 minutes ago, At Sea said:

Looking at some of the JASDF Phantom paint schemes that's a heck of a What If Build...

 

"So impressed with British engineering after Honda & Rover engineers joined forces for the XX project which begat the Rover 800 & Honda Legend that the Japanese government looked at other areas where they could integrate with British industry.

As BAe were in the process of buying Austin Rover and Honda was branching into Aircraft manufacture it was decided to allow the licence production of the UK made components of the Tornado F.3 by Honda in Japan.

MBB & Aeritalia would complete their sections, these would be shipped to Japan and the completion of the work was done by HASD (Honda Air & Space Developement).

The Tornado F.3J was uniquely suited to the long over sea patrol and interception work required by the JASDF, similar as it was to the defence of UK-Air by the RAF.

 

All Training of JASDF crews was carried out by TTTE & by the JASDF shadow squadron based at Leuchars.

 

The Tornado F.3J continued into service until early this year when after the failure of the F35 project the JASDF leased ex-Austrian Airforce Typhoons and joined the Tempest project."

With a back-story like that you'd be welcome in the Interceptor GB as unbuilt projects are eligible so long you can prove their existance.

[At Sea]

Only in my head I’m afraid.

 

Would look amazing in the Digital Camo 2017 F-4EJ scheme.

[Col.]

2 hours ago, At Sea said:

Only in my head I’m afraid.

 

Would look amazing in the Digital Camo 2017 F-4EJ scheme.

The sale of Tornado's to Japan was a genuine proposal so counts as eligible for the forthcoming GB if you wish to go with it  

[At Sea]

3 minutes ago, Col. said:

The sale of Tornado's to Japan was a genuine proposal so counts as eligible for the forthcoming GB if you wish to go with it  

Bugger.. That's £20 gone on a digital camp decal sheet then! 

[Col.]

38 minutes ago, At Sea said:

Bugger.. That's £20 gone on a digital camp decal sheet then! 

It'll be money well spent when you're having fun and creating something unique for the display cabinet  

[At Sea]

STOP PRESS...

 

 

I'm in!

 

We are going to be weather bound on the South Coast for the best part of the next week, now I reckon if I get my skates on I can get this started & finished in time.  The joy of Amazon Prime and an understanding wharf manager means I should have a 1/48 Revell Tornado ADV by tomorrow afternoon.

 

Not sure what it will be yet, just going for an OOB build, then look through my decals and stencils at home.

 

I have a choice of 11 Squadron, 25, Squadron, (already built 23 Squadron), 29 Squadron, 41 Squadron JSAOEU, 43 Squadron, 111 Squadron, 1435 Flight, OCU plus an Italian scheme for 36 Stormo.  

 

Very tempted to build an Italian bird as you don't see them modelled that often.  Still not sure about the Japanese ADV with digital camo...  My OCD struggles with WHIFF modelling!

[exdraken]

2 hours ago, At Sea said:

Very tempted to build an Italian bird as you don't see them modelled that often. 

Italian ADV or even rarer, a Saudi one!

[Col.]

Welcome over @At Sea  

[alhenderson]

@At Sea I'd vote for a Leuchars bird, being my old neck of the woods 😁 just spent a few days down Bournemouth way, and to say it was bracing is an understatement!! Lovely part of the world, though. As ever, not enough time to see everything..

 

Al

[exdraken]

just found this new ladder at Hannants:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/LP48025?result-token=NvYE1

never heard of LP models though!

[Col.]

Nice find @exdraken Looks ready to be lent against the kit of choice. 3D printing seems to be the way forward for our hobby in the near future.

[exdraken]

what ° of wingsweep do we see here?

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/283726/zh917-bae-systems-panavia-tornado-gr-4-4a/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelblake/8665571650/in/photostream/

 

https://www.targeta.co.uk/images/141_7073w5+.jpg

https://www.targeta.co.uk/low_level_photography.htm

 

the full 63°? with Hindenburgers on?

or is that a non-standard setting of slightly less?

 

great photos by the way!

[Colin W]

Wow, n IDS Tonka with Saudi camo and RAF roundals. That would be special.

@At Seaa scheme for you?

[At Sea]

4 minutes ago, Colin W said:

Wow, n IDS Tonka with Saudi camo and RAF roundals. That would be special.

@At Seaa scheme for you?

It's on the long term list.  I have 9 Revell Tornados at last count.  But the camo scheme is a bit daunting so leaving that one till later.

 

I also like the random beige-green and grey panels as well.  It was the development airframe for the Saudi updates so loads of oddities to incorporate.  

[Jabba]

On 27/10/2020 at 20:21, exdraken said:

just found this new ladder at Hannants:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/LP48025?result-token=NvYE1

never heard of LP models though!

 

got one of these coming from the big H, which should be n my hands on Monday.

[Col.]

On 10/29/2020 at 9:25 PM, exdraken said:

what ° of wingsweep do we see here?

https://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/283726/zh917-bae-systems-panavia-tornado-gr-4-4a/

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nigelblake/8665571650/in/photostream/

 

the full 63°? with Hindenburgers on?

or is that a non-standard setting of slightly less?

 

great photos by the way!

Looks like a few degrees off the full 63 to me judging by the appearance of some dark grey along the wing root

21 hours ago, Colin W said:

Wow, n IDS Tonka with Saudi camo and RAF roundals. That would be special.

@At Seaa scheme for you?

That is a nice combination

21 hours ago, At Sea said:

It's on the long term list.  I have 9 Revell Tornados at last count.  But the camo scheme is a bit daunting so leaving that one till later.

I also like the random beige-green and grey panels as well.  It was the development airframe for the Saudi updates so loads of oddities to incorporate.  

Glad to hear that. Sounds like one to watch out for.

15 hours ago, Jabba said:

got one of these coming from the big H, which should be n my hands on Monday.

Please share your thoughts with us when you receive it.

[RichG]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:21 PM, exdraken said:

just found this new ladder at Hannants:

https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/LP48025?result-token=NvYE1

I took delivery one of these little beauties the other day (plus a couple of EE Lightning equivalents in both 1/72 & 1/48). I would say they look superb, identical to the website image: fine detail on the wheels, all the handrails are delicate and to scale but not distorted and the platform is very nicely perforated. I have test fitted against a Revell Tornado kit fuselage (although without any undercarriage fitted) and it certainly looks the business - certainly far better than I could manage in PE.  Hope they realease a sibling in 1/72!

 

 

I have to say I'm becoming a fan of 3D printing I have a few figures from French firm Reedoak and they are amazing, if expensive. Nothing currently in their range for modern UK aircrew but some of their modern French Air Force range I think would work quite well for Tornado crew (air and ground crew).   

 

Rich