Tornado Warning STGB Chat

[JayBee]

On 8/31/2020 at 12:09 PM, PhantomBigStu said:

Question thats puzzling me. got the revell 1/144 kit from the KC10 double set, and its described in a scheme that isn't listed on the tornadosig website,  instead of the 3 tone norm95 of various medium greys scheme its depicted as all over RAL9002 white grey instead. Seems an unusually bad error for revell? 

 

The aircraft is JaboG 32 33 + 46 dated 1995 

 

 

For the Yugoslav War a new "Low Vis" grey scheme for the participating Luftwaffe Tornados was needed ASAP. The green / black Norm 83 scheme was good for low flying profiles, but not for the higher altitude flying during the Yugoslav War.

The first ECR Tornados received a temporary (removable) scheme, mixed with existing  Luftwaffe RAL colors (RAL 7012 and RAL 9001) at the maintenance paint shop. The result was a non specified single grey scheme. Identify this scheme is easy, because the canopy, tailfin and the area of the rescue markings retainded in the old norm 83 scheme.

 

Only the ECR Tornados of JaboG 32 are painted in that scheme, the AG 51 Recce Tornados remained in the Norm 83 scheme.

 

After it was clear they have to be stay longer at Piacenza, the new Norm 95 scheme was created and all participating Tornados received the Norm 95 scheme (ECR and the Recce Tornados)

 

There are two variants of the Norm 95 scheme, early and late. They have the same camouflage FS colors, but different camouflage pattern. Also interessting, the stencil colors changes during the time period of Norm 95 use.

 

Early Scheme:

 

 

 

 

Late scheme:

 

[PhantomBigStu]

Thanks @JayBee, certainly will see how the RAL9002 equivalent paint I’ve purchased compares to the photo of the mixed paint 

[trickyrich]

I have a request for the knowledged ones here.

 

Does anyone have a/some good picture/s of the backseat IP and panels of aTornado ECR? Unfortunately I have no reference books of the ECR version at all.

 

There is plenty of information on the IDS version and I have plenty of those, so I know there are some differences between the back seat of and IDS and ECR.

 

The resin AM cockpit I have is for an IDS and the kit one is of course ECR but I need to see the exact differences between the 2 versions.........not that I don't trust Revell!    

 

So I'd know to know what changes I need to make to get it right............not that many would notice!  

[Dermo245]

1 hour ago, trickyrich said:

I have a request for the knowledged ones here.

 

Does anyone have a/some good picture/s of the backseat IP and panels of aTornado ECR? Unfortunately I have no reference books of the ECR version at all.

 

There is plenty of information on the IDS version and I have plenty of those, so I know there are some differences between the back seat of and IDS and ECR.

 

The resin AM cockpit I have is for an IDS and the kit one is of course ECR but I need to see the exact differences between the 2 versions.........not that I don't trust Revell!    

 

So I'd know to know what changes I need to make to get it right............not that many would notice!  

Will send you a PM Rich 👍

[JayBee]

10 hours ago, trickyrich said:

I have a request for the knowledged ones here.

 

Does anyone have a/some good picture/s of the backseat IP and panels of aTornado ECR? Unfortunately I have no reference books of the ECR version at all.

 

There is plenty of information on the IDS version and I have plenty of those, so I know there are some differences between the back seat of and IDS and ECR.

 

The resin AM cockpit I have is for an IDS and the kit one is of course ECR but I need to see the exact differences between the 2 versions.........not that I don't trust Revell!    

 

So I'd know to know what changes I need to make to get it right............not that many would notice!  

 

 

Front Cockpit: Here and here

Rear Cockpit: Here and here

[trickyrich]

Thanks a lot for that. Will go over the them and the AM bits once I get back home.

[helios16v]

Got some decals on the way so I'll have Italian & RSAF IDS options if I so choose.  What I really need to do is figure out decals for the 48th IDS, as I'm definitely not a fan of the included decals.

[Filler]

32 minutes ago, helios16v said:

Got some decals on the way so I'll have Italian & RSAF IDS options if I so choose.

Italian decals? That's unusual. I've always thought Italian Tornados have been terribly neglected decal wise, both in kits and aftermarket in 1:48th. I hope you choose to build an Italian grey/green/silver aircraft.

 

 

On the subject of the Italian IDS, is the new Farewell Tornado boxing of the Revell kit good for a late eighties example? I was hoping it's just a case of leaving a few bits off, but maybe the cockpit is completely different and needs replacing? The original IDS boxing doesn't appear that often now and is more often than not notably more expensive than the new GR4 release.

 

 

[helios16v]

20 minutes ago, Filler said:

Italian decals? That's unusual. I've always thought Italian Tornados have been terribly neglected decal wise, both in kits and aftermarket in 1:48th. I hope you choose to build an Italian grey/green/silver aircraft.

 

 

On the subject of the Italian IDS, is the new Farewell Tornado boxing of the Revell kit good for a late eighties example? I was hoping it's just a case of leaving a few bits off, but maybe the cockpit is completely different and needs replacing? The original IDS boxing doesn't appear that often now and is more often than not notably more expensive than the new GR4 release.

 

 

The decals I have coming are actually for the 1/72 kits (I have a Granby GR.1 & Defense Research boxings).  I wasn't actually looking for them, but happened to stumble across them on eBay for cheap.  I haven't really looking into the 48th decals much yet.  An Italian or Marineflieger (with Kormorans of course) would be my leading picks if I can locate them.

As far as differences between the Revell 48th IDS & GR.4 kits, I'll let others chime in there.  Just looking through the instructions on Scalemates, it appears the GR.4 comes with all the IDS sprues...except for the G sprue, which appears to be a sensor pod of some sort.  But what it doesn't say is whether those irrelevant parts are still included on the sprues or if they were gated (deleted) to reduce material.

[Filler]

Thanks Chris. I'm so 48 scale focused I often don't think that anyone could be discussing any other scale - a very bad habit.

[helios16v]

It's all good.  I tend to prefer 48th.....but yet most of my builds to date have been 72nd.  Go figure.  

[exdraken]

there is a fantastic WIP here on Britmodeller explaining how to do the Revell 48 Tornado easily, without fit troubles but out of sequence.. where is it! I can't find it !!  

 

who can direct me to it please?

[Christer A]

You mean General Melchetts almost finished build @exdraken?

Look in the WIP section, under pinned builds.

But I also recommend the YouTube videos from that guy at Florys models.

Link is in the references here in the GB

[PinkThorn242]

So this might be replacing the Vietnam GB on my table mostly because of combining limited free time and the fact the Tornado family is a personal favourite of mine.

 

Time to fall down the rabbit hole of just how much I want to pimp out the Revell GR.1.

 

Might throw the Freightdog conversion kit at it to make a GR4 out of it. Just trying to find if there were any cockpit differences or if it was just a matter of adding the FLIR pod and plating over one of the guns.

Edited September 12, 2020 by PinkThorn242

[PinkThorn242]

And flicking around there's an instrument panel mod needed. So sticking to a GR.1 build then.

[Christer A]

A question about the wing sweep. 

We all know that it goes from 25 degrees to 67 (but the Revell 1/48 kit starts at 30) but is this measured on the leading edge, or wing spar/middle of wing somewhere?

[helios16v]

2 minutes ago, Christer A said:

A question about the wing sweep. 

We all know that it goes from 25 degrees to 67 (but the Revell 1/48 kit starts at 30) but is this measured on the leading edge, or wing spar/middle of wing somewhere?

My thinking would be the leading edge...as that is the angle that interacts w/ air.

[PinkThorn242]

...Then again no-one is really going to notice if I put the GR4 pods on without changing the instrument panels. Hrm.

 

 

[helios16v]

22 minutes ago, PinkThorn242 said:

...Then again no-one is really going to notice if I put the GR4 pods on without changing the instrument panels. Hrm.

 

 

I wouldn't sweat it.  I used F-4E IPs on my RF-4 build because that's what was available for what I wanted to spend...and even then that was only because I wanted something a bit nicer than the decal IPs provided by the kit.

Just make the changes that are within your means (imposed budget or ability) and enjoy the build.  

[Andwil]

10 hours ago, Christer A said:

A question about the wing sweep. 

We all know that it goes from 25 degrees to 67 (but the Revell 1/48 kit starts at 30) but is this measured on the leading edge, or wing spar/middle of wing somewhere?

Now I am the very first to admit that geometry has never been my strong point, but wouldn’t the sweep angle be constant across the wing?  I mean if the leading edge/centre/trailing edge or whatever swept by different angles the actual wing structure would change shape radically.  Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

AW

[stever219]

1 hour ago, Andwil said:

Now I am the very first to admit that geometry has never been my strong point, but wouldn’t the sweep angle be constant across the wing?  I mean if the leading edge/centre/trailing edge or whatever swept by different angles the actual wing structure would change shape radically.  Or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

AW

Like most aeroplanes the wings of the Tornado taper from root to tip so that, normally, the leading edge sweep will be greater than the quarter-chord sweep which in turn will be greater than the trailing edge sweep.  Some aeroplanes, e.g. Vultee Vengeance, have zero sweep on all or part of the leading edge with the trailing edge swept forwards, giving a reverse sweep of greater angles in turn at quarter chord and trailing edge

[Andwil]

Got it, that makes sense.

 

AW

[exdraken]

if someone needs F.3 motivation:

http://www.globalaviationresource.com/reports/2011/f3retirement.php#

 

and who can explain this to me?:

https://cdn-0.enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/84/TornadoGR1_27Sqn_RAF_Mildenhall_1988.jpeg

[Col.]

Excuse my late arrival gang but life has been a bit on the hectic side for me lately. It does, however, look as if you've been having plenty fun already  

 

With two of these in the stash (no Enzo! Be lucky to get one done far less both  ) and seeing Werner's post above it seemed only fair they got hauled out and set on the bench

 

 

 

Both kits have been slightly started by their previous owners,

 

 

with a fair selection of goodies to share between them,

 

 

There's a couple of PJ Productions RAF pilots on the way after a wee bit of internet shopping late last night courtesy of SGS Models to add into this mix so hopefully time will allow me some time to get started soon and a thread up.

[Col.]

On 9/16/2020 at 7:36 PM, exdraken said:

...and who can explain this to me?:

https://cdn-0.enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/84/TornadoGR1_27Sqn_RAF_Mildenhall_1988.jpeg

Wings swept back and gear down? I think, given a long enough runway and light enough load, that was one of the Tornado's party tricks on takeoff.