Sptfire XVIII wing, again

[Tomas Enerdal]

Gingerbob, thanks for the confirmation! It's the exact look of the skinning I'm trying to establish, in order to make an accurate model of a 1949 208 Sq FR.18, in the peculiar desert scheme of DE/LSG/MSG

[Gwart]

18 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Where please? 

online, book, magazine?  

A quick google hasn't turned up anything in particular. 

Have a root on here https://gwulo.com/node/2824/photos       Sek Kong / Shek Kong, Kai Tak 

[JosephLalor]

I notice that the upper wing surfaces in the kit are on their own runner.  Taking that with the provision of the broad-chord rudder with the deeper horn balance, I wonder if Airfix have the Mk XVIII planned.  I'm probably romancing yet again, but the thought occurred.

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

1 hour ago, JosephLalor said:

I wonder if Airfix have the Mk XVIII planned.

I hope so i would love to build another 18 in the bigger scale. 

[NPL]

14 hours ago, JosephLalor said:

I notice that the upper wing surfaces in the kit are on their own runner.  Taking that with the provision of the broad-chord rudder with the deeper horn balance, I wonder if Airfix have the Mk XVIII planned.  I'm probably romancing yet again, but the thought occurred.

Given what I wrote about the Indian connection, it might come true. Don't underrate India; there is potentially a very large market also for airplanes which they flow themselves, and the Mk.XVIII definitely belongs here.

 

Still it should not be much of a problem to make the changes from a Mk.XIVe to a Mk.XVIII. 

[Gwart]

Got the Valiant Wings Griffon Spit book today.Not a great deal about the wings (XVIII )but a good deal on the FR. 18 camera placement (and the pop off mud covers ).It's a very good book.

 

Shane.

[Tomas Enerdal]

Thanks for the heads up! I’m looking eagerly in my letterbox every day, my pre-ordered copy has been sent a few days ago.

I was pointed towards a walk-around of sorts last week in 

http://www.meiermotors.com/index.php/aircraft/vickers-supermarine/supermarine-spitfire-mk-xviiie 

Page two contain some very useful pics where top of the wings can be seen. Se also

 

Edited July 11, 2019 by Tomas Enerdal

[Troy Smith]

On 11/07/2019 at 13:45, Gwart said:

Got the Valiant Wings Griffon Spit book today.Not a great deal about the wings (XVIII )

by this, do you mean the description in most Spitfire sources as being" very similar to the Mk.XIV wing" ?  

Or does it have the detail of the panelling changes as discussed here? 

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235014550-spitfire-mkxviii-mk18-photos-of-wing-panelling-differences-confirmed/

and elsewhere in various threads here?

(I'm not trying to be smart alec, just that this is another ones of those details that is usually missed in most of the books)

cheers

T

[Gwart]

There's nothing there that isn't on this forum,The plans in the book are wrong also.

[Giorgio N]

9 minutes ago, Gwart said:

There's nothing there that isn't on this forum,The plans in the book are wrong also.

Sometimes I feel that there's more knowledge in the posts here than in several books. Would be great to have someone capable of putting all the pieces together and write that definitive guide to modelling the Spitfire...

[Gwart]

With regards the XVIII wings,the rest of the book is excellent and is essential for Spit lovers!.

 

 Shane.

[Graham Boak]

2 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

Sometimes I feel that there's more knowledge in the posts here than in several books. Would be great to have someone capable of putting all the pieces together and write that definitive guide to modelling the Spitfire...

What would we find to talk about?  (Other than the Hurricane...)   A good source for a crane to lift the tome?

[NPL]

On 7/15/2019 at 3:52 PM, Giorgio N said:

Sometimes I feel that there's more knowledge in the posts here than in several books. Would be great to have someone capable of putting all the pieces together and write that definitive guide to modelling the Spitfire...

Why not start such a project as a hypertext where everybody is free to contribute.  If we think of an e-book, it can improved on a daily basis. Only thing needed is a group of modelers who take upon them the responsibility to edit this. We could use Wikipedia as a model. I haven't got the Valiant Griffon book yet, but it seems to prove that nobody will alone be able to write the definitive book -- as if anything is definitive except one thing that can wait.

[NPL]

On 7/15/2019 at 6:36 PM, Graham Boak said:

What would we find to talk about?  (Other than the Hurricane...)   A good source for a crane to lift the tome?

Have you ever heard about e-books? see also my  posting above. 

[Graham Boak]

Yes, I have quite a few e-books, and whereas they are fine for text and pictures (when effort is taken, which it often isn't) I find them unsuitable for presentation of technical drawings.  Partially to test this, I am considering getting the e-book version of Monforton's Spitfire book.  However, this is only because I have already had and used the hard copy, sadly lost to water damage.  But for the cost of postage from Canada I would prefer to buy another hard copy. 

 

Under the current licencing arrangements many e-books lack the value of ownership in the long term.  In many cases you do not own the books but merely have them as long as the licencing authority can be bothered to maintain their system and software.  Something which is already affecting some users, if not in our field as far as I know.  In general, the instability of the internet has led to the loss of material even over the few years of its existence, as the longer term users will attest.  The continual rapid obsolescing of the technology is a worry when it comes to long-term access to content.  Note the fate of the computerised Domesday Book exercise.  Books last (if you can keep then dry!) but on current evidence e-references are ephemeral.

 

It should be pointed out that despite considerable (massive?) improvement over the years, the Wiki articles are often somewhat less than definitive and even at best are immensely shorter than even the thinnest of reference books.  I would agree that such an approach is perhaps better than the rapidly forgotten and passed-over postings on bloated bulletin boards or thinner but no longer available ones.  However, I feel you are underestimating the difficulty of such a attempt, problems of the responsibility of the editors and the considerable workload involved in establishment and maintenance of both the site and the content.

 

[72modeler]

On 7/11/2019 at 10:51 AM, Tomas Enerdal said:

I was pointed towards a walk-around of sorts last week in

Tomas,

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the detail photos! That is my very favorite XVIIIe scheme and markings, too. An excellent modeling resource! Much obliged, podnuh, as we say here in Texas!

Mike

[Tomas Enerdal]

Mike, you should not thank me, you should thank Work in Progress ! He posted the link on 4 July on a sister thread about ”how to get to a F.XVIII” here on BM WWII. (Sorry,  I haven’t figured out how to insert links on my phone, yet)

[72modeler]

@Work In Progress Sorry! Thank you, thank you, thank you for the XVIII detail photos! @Tomas Enerdal thank you for setting me straight- I am sorry for making the mistake in crediting the post. Lo siento mucho!

Mike

[Tomas Enerdal]

There’s another walkaround of the same aircraft/markings at Arcair . Some useful pics, one (pic 29) helped me find a panel line on the topside of the wing. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Tomas Enerdal

[Tomas Enerdal]

Regarding the "definite Spitfire Mk.18 guide"/e-book;

If "we" (interested modelers/enthusiasts) have found earlier references lacking and are interested in making a guide to serve as a future (modeling) reference: Another possible format for a info guide could be an article in a modeling magazine. If published it will be printed, widely circulated and read and probably be accessible to many in the future. (Frankly, I'm thinking that Scale Aircraft Modeling would be the best). A published article would also be something that opens up to finding more, so far unknown, info about the Mk.18

Could this be a joint effort here on BM? Not a "Group Build", but rather a "Group Research". With members having individual knowledge, contacts and references, a compilation could become something quite special. As a group we could find and compile the information. I suppose there would be discussions but if accuracy is a common goal I suppose we would be able to reach a common view.

Possibly could a joint group have some weight when it comes to opening doors? I tried to get in touch with the Aircraft Restoration Company (Duxford), who did restore at least two Mk.18 in the past, maybe their records could shed some light on the original wing? No luck. Is there some original production drawings somewhere? Manuals? The Indian connection?

 

Sadly, Edgar is no longer with us. I would think that making this in his honor could be a way of paying back what we owe him.

[NPL]

On 7/17/2019 at 12:07 AM, Graham Boak said:

Yes, I have quite a few e-books, and whereas they are fine for text and pictures (when effort is taken, which it often isn't) I find them unsuitable for presentation of technical drawings.  Partially to test this, I am considering getting the e-book version of Monforton's Spitfire book.  However, this is only because I have already had and used the hard copy, sadly lost to water damage.  But for the cost of postage from Canada I would prefer to buy another hard copy. 

 

Under the current licencing arrangements many e-books lack the value of ownership in the long term.  In many cases you do not own the books but merely have them as long as the licencing authority can be bothered to maintain their system and software.  Something which is already affecting some users, if not in our field as far as I know.  In general, the instability of the internet has led to the loss of material even over the few years of its existence, as the longer term users will attest.  The continual rapid obsolescing of the technology is a worry when it comes to long-term access to content.  Note the fate of the computerised Domesday Book exercise.  Books last (if you can keep then dry!) but on current evidence e-references are ephemeral.

 

It should be pointed out that despite considerable (massive?) improvement over the years, the Wiki articles are often somewhat less than definitive and even at best are immensely shorter than even the thinnest of reference books.  I would agree that such an approach is perhaps better than the rapidly forgotten and passed-over postings on bloated bulletin boards or thinner but no longer available ones.  However, I feel you are underestimating the difficulty of such a attempt, problems of the responsibility of the editors and the considerable workload involved in establishment and maintenance of both the site and the content.

 

Graham, maybe you should reconsider. I looked at Amazon who demands £ 232. Monforton has it for $ 84 (Canadian?) & pp. Know that it is horrendous from Canada. Ordered a few Ultracast items a year ago. PP far exceeded the price of the items in question.

[Troy Smith]

20 hours ago, Tomas Enerdal said:

maybe their records could shed some light on the original wing? No luck. Is there some original production drawings somewhere? Manuals?

 

I think we have the wing pretty well covered, in the wing panelling thread there is the manual drawing,  and the photos show the external differences well enough,  it's just had some of the skinning and panelling changed,  eliminating the upper gun doors, and the underwing hatch for the ammo boxes,  but this hatch then is put in the upperwing, making use of the existing space in the structure, for the survival equipment.

A photo of the survival equipment layout would be neat.

The problem with the books is that many are not written for the modeller, so "the mk.18 was nearly the same as the mk.14"  is not far off, it has some strengthening and some changes to panels.   It's the external changes that are the point for the modeller,  and I can see why the exact details have not been well recorded.

I'd not be surprised in @tonyot  is not working on a Mk.18 for an article somewhere though. 

[Graham Boak]

Monforton does price in Canadian dollars.  You can find a copy in Barter Books in Alnwick at about half the Amazon price but postage will not be cheap.

 

I'm afraid that the success of air freight has driven surface mail out of existence, so prices have unavoidably risen.

 

[Gwart]

7 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

 

I think we have the wing pretty well covered, in the wing panelling thread there is the manual drawing,  and the photos show the external differences well enough,  it's just had some of the skinning and panelling changed,  eliminating the upper gun doors, and the underwing hatch for the ammo boxes,  but this hatch then is put in the upperwing, making use of the existing space in the structure, for the survival equipment.

A photo of the survival equipment layout would be neat.

The problem with the books is that many are not written for the modeller, so "the mk.18 was nearly the same as the mk.14"  is not far off, it has some strengthening and some changes to panels.   It's the external changes that are the point for the modeller,  and I can see why the exact details have not been well recorded.

I'd not be surprised in @tonyot  is not working on a Mk.18 for an article somewhere though. 

A schematic/drawing  of the survival kit has been posted on here ,possibly by Edgar.

[Tomas Enerdal]

Graham,

The Monforton book is available from Germany, see www.aviation-scale-products.com Price €95,95 + p&p 15,99 to Sweden. Paul Monforton recommended them himself, considering the high p&p from Canada. Contact [email protected] in case you're interested, I just ordered a copy.

 

Edit: Book arrived this morning, that's two days. In a box so sturdy it would have survived a direct hit from a 250 lb... Great service if you ask me!

Edited July 26, 2019 by Tomas Enerdal