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SuKhoi_Fitter

Any ideas for a Seafury to Fury conversion?

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So,  my favourite land based fighter of World War Two is the Hawker Fury (Sabre powered). And although I've thought about converting the PM Seafury into th sabre fury I have no idea how to go about it. Any ideas or advice would be welcome. hawker-fury-sabre-la610.jpg

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There was a Ventura conversion for a Tempest Mk.I which would provide you with the nose and radiators.  Or at least a good start.  Your chance of finding one is pretty small, I fear.

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17 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

There was a Ventura conversion for a Tempest Mk.I which would provide you with the nose and radiators.  Or at least a good start.  Your chance of finding one is pretty small, I fear.

Not sure it would help that much: the aircraft depicted has a chin intake just behind the spinner which wasn't on the Ventura Tempest.I conversion so a fair bit of reprofiling of the nose required, even with the conversion. 

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well..cut off the Centaurus nose and stick a Sabre on! 

OK, I'm being flippant, but that essentially it, though note the Sabre fury has wing mounted radiators like a Tempest I.

the PM Sea Fury is rated as a bit of a dog,  but AFAIK the only really decent 72nd Sea Fury is the Aki resin kit, which I think is OOP and was expensive when it was.....

 

On a more positive note, remember that the old Matchbox Tempest kit was a Mk.II/VI kit,  so has a spare Sabre nose, but you would need to make the undercowl, note compared to a Tempest I it is deeper and has an air inlet underneath.   Otherwise you need a Sabre front section and prop from a Tempest V kit

 

Tempest I for comparison

Tempest_Mk_I.jpg

 

The Sea Fury eliminated the wing centre section,  so the wing rads are also shorter, but the wing is basically the same.

 

I could be of more help in 1/48th, as I had the same plan,  ideally using a leftover Tempest nose (from a Mk.II conversion) and I was planning on using some 12 stack resin exhaust for a P-39/P-400, about the only 12 stack exhaust I could think of, there maybe a set in 72nd too.

 

Doable, but depends on how good your conversion and scratchbuilding skills are? 

 

If you son't want to wreck too many kits, try to find a leftover Matchbox Tempest Sabre nose, and make the nose,  if you can do that,  you should be able to make the radiators farily easily,  they use the same end bits as the Sea Fury, the centres would need to be made out of plastic card.   

 

Depends on your skill set.

Note, THE scheme for the Sabre Fury is this 

hawker-fury-sabre-vp207.jpg

overall aluminium dope with either a blue or red cheat line...   have a read of a thread i started on just this a while back...

which maybe of interest.

 

HTH

T

PS some more info and photos here

https://oldmachinepress.com/2014/10/14/hawker-fury-i-sabre-powered/

 

PPS

a conversion done here

http://www.hrmtech.com/sig/articles/sabre_fury.asp

by @rossm

 

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I have the Ventura conversion kit. It's a bit crude and I'm not sure if it would be of much use. I don't think the nose is the proper shape and it doesn't have the under-nose air intake.

 

32033991027_1e2541ba91_b.jpg

 

32033991097_c4f7db5083_b.jpg

 

 

Chris

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It would be easier to build up the lines to a chin intake using this conversion than by chopping the chin radiator from a Matchbox (or whichever) Tempest and building something much deeper..

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Thanks for the advice guys!! I've got some old spare matchbox sabre noses about so I'll see what I can come up with. I might combine parts from a heller tempest V to make areas such as the wings more realistic. And as for the silver and red, I think it suits VP207 but I think mike might end up in the camouflage of LA610 (yes it started out with a griffon and was converted to take the sabre VII) 

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I have the same Ventura conversion and it is really pretty crude, as dogsbody has stated and illustrated- besides, it's for a Tempest Mk 1, not a Fury. After looking at all the photos of LA610 I could find on the 'net,' might I suggest that maybe you could adapt the cowling of an Airfix Firefly Mk V to the Tempest Mk V kit of your choice- it looks like you can use the upper part of the donor kit cowling and adapt the lower  intake part of the Airfix Firefly. You would need to lower the position of the exhausts, as they are further down on a  Sabre than a Griffon-powered Firefly. You could also use the radiator/oil cooler leading edge intakes of the Firefly and mate them to the donor kit wings. It doesn't look like the cowling intake  of either LA610 or VP207  had the crease along the lower part like the Firefly, but I guess that's what Milliput is for! Biggest issue for me would be how to adapt a Sea Fury kit fuselage to your conversion to get the correct fin/rudder and 'humped' fuselage.  It is a handsome beast, however, so I wish you luck with your project and look forward to seeing how it all turns out. I hope this will be somewhat useful. FWIW, I think the cheatline is the color as the blue of the roundel  and fin flash.

Mike

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Ooh! I was just thinking about the possibility of using a Firefly as a lower cowling donor.

 

All I have is this not great side profile.

 

32036938167_f0e8e17b2e_b.jpg

 

 

 

Chris

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I have also fallen completely in love with this and are planning to convert a HighPlane Sea Fury with a Tempest Mk I set from LF models as wing radiator source. The nose i plan on building up in resin.

 

Pity that no one af made a kit of this very elegant Hawker.

 

Off topic, the CAC CA-15 is almost the same, last of era, design idea, with also came to naught.

cac-ca-15-flight.jpg

/Finn

Edited by FinnAndersen

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7 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I have the Ventura conversion kit. It's a bit crude and I'm not sure if it would be of much use. I don't think the nose is the proper shape and it doesn't have the under-nose air intake.

 

32033991027_1e2541ba91_b.jpg

 

32033991097_c4f7db5083_b.jpg

 

 

Chris

  • Wandering off-topic a little, a few words in defence of the Ventura Tempest I conversion.  I suppose it is a bit crude by 2019 standards but it's by no means as bad as the huge sprue and attachment gates make it look.  The radiators benefit from a bit of filing to sharpen up the side walls but, once the parts have been cleaned up, you have a nice and quite simple conversion: the fine (raised) surface detail matches perfectly with that on the intended Heller donor kit and fit is good.  For me (20-odd years ago) there were only 2 problems:
  •  
  • You need to do a bit of research on the precise configuration you are modelling: it changed over the course of testing.  I'm a bit hazy on the details now but I think they relate to the canopy (car-door or bubble) and the small undernose intake.
  • I couldn't find the quirkily styled "Prototype P" in transfer form.  Xtradecal have since solved that: exactly the right size and style available from their sheet.

So next time you see one of these lying unloved in an under-the-table box at a show, snap it up: it builds into a lovely replica of the most elegant of the Typhoon/Tempest/Fury family.

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7 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

It would be easier to build up the lines to a chin intake using this conversion than by chopping the chin radiator from a Matchbox (or whichever) Tempest and building something much deeper..

Did just that many years ago and went very well. It would make a very good first project for anyone wishing to step away from the box.

 

Keith

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38 minutes ago, FinnAndersen said:

I have also fallen completely in love with this and are planning to convert a HighPlane Sea Fury with a Tempest Mk I set from LF models as wing radiator source. The nose i plan on building up in resin.

 

Pity that no one af made a kit of this very elegant Hawker.

 

/Finn

 

2 hours ago, 72modeler said:

I have the same Ventura conversion and it is really pretty crude, as dogsbody has stated and illustrated- besides, it's for a Tempest Mk 1, not a Fury. After looking at all the photos of LA610 I could find on the 'net,' might I suggest that maybe you could adapt the cowling of an Airfix Firefly Mk V to the Tempest Mk V kit of your choice- it looks like you can use the upper part of the donor kit cowling and adapt the lower  intake part of the Airfix Firefly. You would need to lower the position of the exhausts, as they are further down on a  Sabre than a Griffon-powered Firefly. You could also use the radiator/oil cooler leading edge intakes of the Firefly and mate them to the donor kit wings. It doesn't look like the cowling intake  of either LA610 or VP207  had the crease along the lower part like the Firefly, but I guess that's what Milliput is for! Biggest issue for me would be how to adapt a Sea Fury kit fuselage to your conversion to get the correct fin/rudder and 'humped' fuselage.  It is a handsome beast, however, so I wish you luck with your project and look forward to seeing how it all turns out. I hope this will be somewhat useful. FWIW, I think the cheatline is the color as the blue of the roundel  and fin flash.

Mike

Here's some of my refrence pictures taken from the net.

.IMG_2746.JPG.6beeef17af947f971c2572cbf2b

IMG_2751.JPG.32ccf1f37609b0d6e0257549a2d

IMG_2739.JPG.b8f6ce02105d057242abe3ead18medium.IMG_2759.JPG.4e678365bec660f1d220

 

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I feel that the Firefly fuselage might be a little narrow.  Whichever route you choose one key matter will be trying to get the smooth line down from the windscreen, and on the fuselage sides.

 

The RAF Furies were going to have  the Sabre rather than Centaurus, so if you are prepared to wiffle there are a number of possible options.

 

As for donor kits, how about the Trumpeter?  Given the amount of chopping, I wouldn't choose the AKI, but I found the PM kit quite acceptable, if basic.  Being basic may be an advantage here.

Edited by Graham Boak

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14 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

Your chance of finding one is pretty small, I fear.

Not so happily, try here. I'm with @Graham Boak on this, some work to create the undernose carb intake & you're good to go plus you've got the leading edge radiators & correct cowl profile. I've got a couple of these in stock, one for a Tempest I & the other for exactly this conversion with one of my Novo SeaFury kits, the spare tail will become part of a Tempest V prototype perhaps.

Steve.

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After getting my Airfix Firefly V kit out and checking the sizes I agree the fly is to narrow. I might however combine a tempest V/VI nose and use the wing radiators from the firefly, and create the chin radiator from a mix of card and mustang parts. For example this LA610 used that exact Idea.

 

 FuryHeading.jpg

Edited by SuKhoi_Fitter

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Some points having read through this.

 

No-one has mentioned the exhausts,  and where to source them, apart from me, and that is in 1/48th.   I have had a look for some 12 stack resin one for a P-39 or P-63,  some kist maybe have them as an alternate options.  

 

There seems to be a lot 'cut x to hey bit y'  going on,  much of which isn't going to help, specifically, the end of the wing radiators are already in the PM Sea Fury kit  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234951161-172-pm-models-hawker-sea-fury-fb11/

 

11226915346_fa959d19bd_b.jpg&key=fcfff28

 

IMG_2739.JPG.b8f6ce02105d057242abe3ead18

here's an image I'd not seen before

2VvFDHO.jpg

from here https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/236461-sea-fury-and-atacker-fb1-br-really-fair/&page=3

 

By this I mean, rather than getting a Tempest I conversion, which is cheap, £5.40, but £8.30 post from NZ,   you might just want to try chopping out the rads, then making the gap wider, and using some plastic card,  as you are going to have to cut down the Tempest I rads anyway.   Firefly ones might work, but if you can deal with making bits from one kit fit another,  you miay find that scratch building said bits is not that hard,  and, pragmatically, if it works, great, if it doesn't, then try the kit bash

 

the undercowl, I'd suggest this was an ideal candidate for a bit of smash moulding, rather than trying to get Mustang bits too fit,  again, a pragmatic approach,  make balsa plug, carve to shape, smash mould new undercowl, being hollow you get intake, and can be tailed to fit new nose.

 

And, one point I just noticed myself,  sticking a Tempest nose on isn't going to work "as is" , as looking at the photos again, 

15_Hawker_Tempest_I_HM599,_originally_Ty

 

the Tempest top cowl line is basically parallel to the exhaust,  the Sabre Fury  upper cowl is a slope , again, look at the exhaust vs  cowl top line

h-5521.jpg

 

it looks as if the engine bay panels are longer as well, 

Tempest V

c03f268c177cdaf8650ae8111d5acbaf.jpg

 

note position of firewall in comparison

IMG_2746.JPG.6beeef17af947f971c2572cbf2b

 

Hmm,  interesting,   so just using a Tempest sabre nose as won't work.  It needs to be longer......

 

as an aside, this image, from the Napier page, I presume  shows the Tempest I sabre installation (note airscoop)  from http://www.npht.org/sabre/4579703349

showing different engine bearers from the Tempest V installation.

 

4626558386.jpg

 

 

Anyway,  hope this is of use to others, been useful to me for realising what the conversion actually entails... 

Be a good on for the 1/48 Airfix Sea Fury, as overall that's actually a decent kit...

 

HTH

T

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1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

Some points having read through this.

 

No-one has mentioned the exhausts,  and where to source them, apart from me, and that is in 1/48th.   I have had a look for some 12 stack resin one for a P-39 or P-63,  some kist maybe have them as an alternate options.  

 

There seems to be a lot 'cut x to hey bit y'  going on,  much of which isn't going to help, specifically, the end of the wing radiators are already in the PM Sea Fury kit  https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234951161-172-pm-models-hawker-sea-fury-fb11/

 

11226915346_fa959d19bd_b.jpg&key=fcfff28

 

IMG_2739.JPG.b8f6ce02105d057242abe3ead18

here's an image I'd not seen before

2VvFDHO.jpg

from here https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/236461-sea-fury-and-atacker-fb1-br-really-fair/&page=3

 

By this I mean, rather than getting a Tempest I conversion, which is cheap, £5.40, but £8.30 post from NZ,   you might just want to try chopping out the rads, then making the gap wider, and using some plastic card,  as you are going to have to cut down the Tempest I rads anyway.   Firefly ones might work, but if you can deal with making bits from one kit fit another,  you miay find that scratch building said bits is not that hard,  and, pragmatically, if it works, great, if it doesn't, then try the kit bash

 

the undercowl, I'd suggest this was an ideal candidate for a bit of smash moulding, rather than trying to get Mustang bits too fit,  again, a pragmatic approach,  make balsa plug, carve to shape, smash mould new undercowl, being hollow you get intake, and can be tailed to fit new nose.

 

And, one point I just noticed myself,  sticking a Tempest nose on isn't going to work "as is" , as looking at the photos again, 

15_Hawker_Tempest_I_HM599,_originally_Ty

 

the Tempest top cowl line is basically parallel to the exhaust,  the Sabre Fury  upper cowl is a slope , again, look at the exhaust vs  cowl top line

h-5521.jpg

 

it looks as if the engine bay panels are longer as well, 

Tempest V

c03f268c177cdaf8650ae8111d5acbaf.jpg

 

note position of firewall in comparison

IMG_2746.JPG.6beeef17af947f971c2572cbf2b

 

Hmm,  interesting,   so just using a Tempest sabre nose as won't work.  It needs to be longer......

 

as an aside, this image, from the Napier page, I presume  shows the Tempest I sabre installation (note airscoop)  from http://www.npht.org/sabre/4579703349

showing different engine bearers from the Tempest V installation.

 

4626558386.jpg

 

 

Anyway,  hope this is of use to others, been useful to me for realising what the conversion actually entails... 

Be a good on for the 1/48 Airfix Sea Fury, as overall that's actually a decent kit...

 

HTH

T

Thanks for that sound advice mate, ill bear it in mind when I get round to making my mods. Good luck with it in 48th!!

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23 hours ago, SuKhoi_Fitter said:

the Tempest top cowl line is basically parallel to the exhaust,  the Sabre Fury  upper cowl is a slope , again, look at the exhaust vs  cowl top line

The reason for that is that the Sea Fury’s cockpit was set higher than the Fury’s to improve the pilot’s view.  Both the cowling line and the top of the spine will be at different angles (more taper on the spine than on the Fury).

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21 minutes ago, pigsty said:

The reason for that is that the Sea Fury’s cockpit was set higher than the Fury’s to improve the pilot’s view.  Both the cowling line and the top of the spine will be at different angles (more taper on the spine than on the Fury).

Eh? The Sea fury/Fury cockpit are the same,  I assume you mean Tempest vs Fury?

Yes, that's correct.  the origin of the Fury/Sea Fury  came from a light weight Tempest project,  based on the Tempest wing, minus centre section,  with a new fuselage.   I have never see anything to say the Fury vs Sea Fury fuselages are different in anything but detail. 

the plane behind VP607 is the Centaurus Fury demonstrator

hawker-fury-sabre-vp207.jpg&key=aaa32621

 

Fury (de navalised Sea Fury)

sfury-9.jpg

 

 

My post was because I had just noticed that just sticking on a Tempest nose wasn't going to work, and showing the comparison.

 

One thought for the 48th scale kit bashers, it is just possible that the Seafire 47 undercowl, which is an alternate part in the Seafire 46/47 kit could be a possible undercowl?  Pure supposition and I can't get to relevant kits to check.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, SuKhoi_Fitter said:

Okay guys, so I found this post http://www.modellbaufreunde.ch/index.php?topic=4466.0 it seems to have followed the same route as what I'm planning. If anyone has any other tips based on that forum posts?

 

the exhaust slots angle up, for reason discussed above, I'd suggest a cut above them, and then filling the small triangular gap this would create.

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

as I suggested, making the wider rads is easy enough using plastic card, top image agin shows te angled up exhaust slots,  although depending on the donor nose, these maybe not alreadty cut out (eg heller/Smer Tempest) and easy enough to cut in the right place.

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

the exhaust construction is very impressive

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

 

But I'd still see if any of the 73nd P-39/P-400/P-63 kits come with  both 6 and 12 stack options, as that would save a lot of work

 

these are the 1/48th resin ones by Ultracast

ULT48108-2T.jpg

 

hard to find a clear pic, but note the exhaust shadows

la610ft.jpg

 

HTH

 

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3 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

 

the exhaust slots angle up, for reason discussed above, I'd suggest a cut above them, and then filling the small triangular gap this would create.

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

as I suggested, making the wider rads is easy enough using plastic card, top image agin shows te angled up exhaust slots,  although depending on the donor nose, these maybe not alreadty cut out (eg heller/Smer Tempest) and easy enough to cut in the right place.

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

the exhaust construction is very impressive

index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4466.0;a

 

 

But I'd still see if any of the 73nd P-39/P-400/P-63 kits come with  both 6 and 12 stack options, as that would save a lot of work

 

these are the 1/48th resin ones by Ultracast

ULT48108-2T.jpg

 

hard to find a clear pic, but note the exhaust shadows

la610ft.jpg

 

HTH

 

Any ideas as to how he made his wing radiators? I can't quite make it out 

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It's a conversion I attempted a decade back.  IIRC, I started with a PM Sea Fury as they're cheap and basic, plus some Aeroclub bits (canopy and u/c), a Matchbox Tempest Sabre cowling and some copies of the LF resin Tempest I conversion.

 

The depth of the cowling isn't the problem everyone seems to think it is - I chopped the cowling below the exhausts and fitted the resin piece.  This comes with the exhausts integral and you're meant to cut away the cowling to the line above.  I just fitted it a tad lower and sanded the exhausts back.

 

I don't have any photos of the finished model - I lost them during technical difficulties a few months back, but here's something similar I did with a whiffed Tempest.

 

51375039_2263139507235506_16266190483200

 

51516217_2263139323902191_79119010328320

 

51364581_2263139557235501_56258112052778

 

If you look carefully, you cabn just make out the deeper cowling on the last photo.

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