Very narrow fin flash on the 1940-1941 Hurricanes

[GrzeM]

Examining known photographs of the 302 Polish squadron Hurricanes I've noticed that apparently all of them (till 1941 Spring) show extremely narrow and tall fin flash! Were these fin flashes painted in the unit? Shown planes comes from various series and even various versions (Mk. I and Mk.II!!!).

Mark I:

From British Pathe newsreel (quite poor quality, but belive me, the fin flash is narrow):

And Autumn 1940 (V6941):

 

Period? Captioned as 1940:

 

Mark II in 1941 March or April:

1941 Spring/Summer:

 

One of the Czech Hurricanes with similar (overpainted?) fin flash:

 

It is in fact identical to the one sported by the 85 Squadron in France. What was the reason? Why this coincidence? Were 85 ground crews attached to the 302 later? Or did these squadron share an airbase or Maintenance Unit?

Also this airplane (56 Squadron) has similar fin flash:

Edited February 5, 2019 by GrzeM

[Troy Smith]

17 minutes ago, GrzeM said:

Were these fin flashes painted in the unit?

most likely,  some at MU's, depends on date.

the 85 and 56 sq examples are almost certainly unit applied, as dated may (85) and June (56) 1940 

note variations shown in this, standard fin flash only came in August 1940, so between May, when  introduced, and August, many variation appear

from 

https://boxartden.com/reference/gallery/index.php/Modeling-References/Camoflage-Markings/03-Hawker-Hurricane

 

while old, it really is still a very good primer on this.

 

As always, if possible refer to photos, and the more that become available, the more variation are noted.   

[GrzeM]

26 minutes ago, Troy Smith said:

note variations shown in this, standard fin flash only came in August 1940, so between May, when  introduced, and August, many variation appear 

Great information! But still: 302 Polish was operational only on late August 1940, and many photos with narrow stripes comes from Spring-Summer 1941, and shows even Hurricanes Mk II from 1941 production (eg. Z2667)!!!

[Graham Boak]

Such a late example is very odd.  I presume that the fin flashes were painted by the manufacturer, rather than the MU or the unit except initially, allowing some time for earlier built fighters to work their way through to the units.  So how did Gloster and Hawker initially paint their fin flashes?  Is there any evidence that one painted a thin flash and the other filled the fin?

 

A fighter in service with a thin flash could have stayed around for quite a while, even into mid-1941.  However, there's no such excuse for any fighter built after August to have been delivered with thin flashes.  Therefore is this an example of one pilot's whim or superstition?

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, GrzeM said:

Great information! But still: 302 Polish was operational only on late August 1940, and many photos with narrow stripes comes from Spring-Summer 1941, and shows even Hurricanes Mk II from 1941 production (eg. Z2667)!!!

 

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Such a late example is very odd.  I presume that the fin flashes were painted by the manufacturer, rather than the MU or the unit except initially, allowing some time for earlier built fighters to work their way through to the units.  So how did Gloster and Hawker initially paint their fin flashes?  Is there any evidence that one painted a thin flash and the other filled the fin?

 

A fighter in service with a thin flash could have stayed around for quite a while, even into mid-1941.  However, there's no such excuse for any fighter built after August to have been delivered with thin flashes.  Therefore is this an example of one pilot's whim or superstition?

personal whim, or a desire to make planes 'match' ?  Uniformity of appearance maybe such a quirk.

As more photos become available, more of these quirks arise.   As Graham says, they shouldn't be like this, but evidently they are.   

 

Still, makes for interesting model subjects

 

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

These fin flashes were carry-over from late winter/early spring 1940 and first appeared on BEF aircraft in France. Apart from Hurricanes, other types like Blenheim, Lysander, Battle and Gladiator also carried such markings. Here is a Blenheim:

© IWM (CH 787)

Various styles had been applied as can be seen on this photo:

© IWM (CH 1174)

When going abroad aircraft of BEF were without fin marking. According to Jon Lake in Blenheim squadrons in WWII (Osprey) by March 1940 squadrons received orders to apply fin flashes to bring them in line with French tricolor rudder markings. Not particularly keen to apply another coat of paint on fabric covered rudders (apart from I Sqn. Hurricanes, of course), RAF units decided to apply these markings on fins instead. Cheers

Jure

[Mr T]

One of the photos seems to  shows a 'late' aircraft  that it had the standard flash painted out and a tall narrow fin substituted. Could it possibly being used as a quick squadron identification marking? It could be quicker than trying to read letters. 

[Graham Boak]

The two squadrons in the Advanced Air Striking Force (i.e. based forward, nearer the front line than the rest of the BEF's fighter force) , both 1 and 73, adopted rudder stripes for ease of identification after being attacked by French fighters.  This was independent of all other units in France, which did not.  The order for fin flashes was May 1st, together with other changes, and applied to all RAF aircraft (but not the FAA).  The flashes weren't seen any earlier.

 

 

[gingerbob]

Hmm, was the fin flash ever seen WITH the rudder stripes?  That would be an interesting variation...

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

Graham, you must be correct, as I can found no reliably captioned photos of AC BEF aircraft with fin flashes prior to May 1940. Gingerbob, I believe BOAC Ensigns, marked with tricolors on both rudder and elevators, comes closest to your description.

On this photo stripes on elevator undersides are barely visible. However, a photo of another Ensign, published in Peter D. Cornwell's book The battle of France then and now, shows burned-out remains of G-ADSZ Elysian at Merville, definitely marked with elevator stripes. Cheers

Jure

[Graham Boak]

The stripes under the registration were carried by civilian airliners through the war, but not (I believe) rudder/elevator stripes, and certainly not with roundels.  I believe this combination is strictly illegal, although commonly seen on impressed light civil aircraft (eg Tiger Moths).  The stripes should be under the wing registration too, but are not visible.

 

I've a niggling feeling that at least one other fighter unit - 85? - had at least one aircraft with rudder stripes, but that would take a long dig through this site's archives (unless Troy has it at his fingertips).  I think the intention may have been to move more units forward.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

I've a niggling feeling that at least one other fighter unit - 85? - had at least one aircraft with rudder stripes, but that would take a long dig through this site's archives (unless Troy has it at his fingertips)

87 Sq, 

see 

 

[Graham Boak]

87 lacked rudder stripes when inspected by the King at Lille-Sechlin on Feb 1st 1940.  No later photos of 87, unfortunately, in Cornwell, but there is one of a Blenheim with narrow fin flash.

 

From Cull et al 12 Days in May.  In April 12 Hurricanes of 87 Sq were detached to Senon, to operate with Lysanders of 2 Sq.  I strongly suspect that explains and dates the rudder stripes.

Edited February 4, 2019 by Graham Boak

[303sqn]

Aircraft based in France had set a precedent of applying stripes to the rudder in the style of the French. This was perceived  as causing problems with the rudder’s balance. On 1st May 1940 the AM sent signal X485 to all commands, at home and overseas, giving instructions to amend the markings carried by RAF aircraft. Vertical stripes, red white and blue, of equal width were to be applied to the fin. The blue stripe should be nearest the rudder but clear of the hinge. The signal stressed that the marking was to be applied to the fin.

 

A second signal, X740, was sent on 11th May, stating that the three vertical stripes fin marking need not necessarily occupy the whole fin. It was sufficient  that the width was to be clearly visible.

 

As no specifications were given as to the width of the stripes, many different interpretations were made by units. The narrow stripes seen on 302 Squadron Hurricanes are also seen on other aircraft. I know of al least one Spitfire that has them and several Blenheims. Narrow stripes are found on Ansons, at a slant long the rudder line, and Whitleys, perhaps because they have small fins.

 

As for 302 Squadron, there are few photos of their Hurricane Mk Is. WX*W (perhaps P3120) has ‘normal’ fin flashes whilst its successor V6941 had the narrow type.  There is more material for the Hurricane Mk IIs where it seems to be common to have the narrow type of fin flashes but not exclusively. Z3332 WX*R and P3307 WX*J had the ‘normal’ type of fin flashes. Z2667 WX*E, Z2668 WX*H, Z3095 WX*N had the narrow type. They seem to have lasted until the end of service with the squadron with no effort made to replace them even when the aircraft were repainted in the Day Fighter Scheme e.g., Z3752 WX*L & Z3675 WX*B. The latter was later photographed at Sverdlovsk in USSR still with its 302 Squadron markings.

 

Some 306 Squadron Hurricanes had slightly narrow fin flashes but not as extreme as 302 Squadron apart from UZ*Z Z2923 which were identical to 302 Squadron.

 

[Graham Boak]

On 2/3/2019 at 9:14 PM, Graham Boak said:

The two squadrons in the Advanced Air Striking Force (i.e. based forward, nearer the front line than the rest of the BEF's fighter force) , both 1 and 73, adopted rudder stripes for ease of identification after being attacked by French fighters.  This was independent of all other units in France, which did not. 

 

Repeated for clarification of the above post, with the addition of a third squadron in April (1, 73 and 87.) .  The AM was known to be sensitive about repainting of movable control surfaces without rebalancing because any mass added aft of the hinge reduced the margin before the surface would flutter.  Flutter is an innocuous word to describe a dynamic resonance that leads to complete structural failure.  It was later seen on Typhoons where excessive engine vibration led to fatigue failure of the elevator mass balance, and hence flutter which broke off the tail.

 

The continued use of the narrow flash does seem to have been a whim on the part of someone in 302 Sq, presumably the commanding officer.  Possibly the a/c with standard fin flashes had not yet been repainted into the "house style" at the time the photograph was taken.  Alternatively the squadron had not received signal X740, and were left wondering why they kept getting new machines in the wrong style... but I suspect not.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Graham Boak