Mr Hobby Hobby Colour - too thin

[alhenderson]

Evening All,

 

I'm just starting out on a 1:72 A-4 and went to the local model shop to get the paints I needed (first kit in a long time, so starting from scratch).  I expected to buy Humbrol, cos that's what I know, but the owner said he didn't stock them as he "didn't like them".  Instead he sold me acrylic Mr Hobby "Hobby Colour".  So, I have the gloss white (of which there is a lot on a 1960s USN fighter).  I'm finding that it goes on really badly - its almost like its too thin.  So far I have 3 coats on and it looks like its going to need at least another 2, if I ever get a decent finish.

 

I can't believe this is normal for acrylic paints (I haven't got much experience with them).  Have I got a bad batch?  Are Mr Hobby not actually as good as the chap in the shop seems to think? I've given it a good stir, shake and left it sitting upside down for ages, all to no avail.  I don't want to be having to put this many coats on when I do the outside.

 

Any thoughts?  Hints?  Should point out that I'm using a good old fashioned brush.  Are these paints maybe designed for air brushing?

 

Thanks,

Al.

Edited January 29, 2019 by alhenderson
added information

[jenko]

Apart from the fact white is always a pig to apply (even with an airbrush) it should work OK . Have you added flow enhancer? (a few drops makes a big difference)

 

Bottle needs to be shaken to an inch of it's life to get the contents fully mixed.

Mr. Hobby acrylics are as good if not better than Tamiya.

 

HTH

 

Dick

[alhenderson]

5 minutes ago, jenko said:

Apart from the fact white is always a pig to apply (even with an airbrush) it should work OK . Have you added flow enhancer? (a few drops makes a big difference)

 

Bottle needs to be shaken to an inch of it's life to get the contents fully mixed.

Mr. Hobby acrylics are as good if not better than Tamiya.

 

HTH

 

Dick

Never heard of flow enhancer!  Is it needed even when using brushes?  You're right though, I do remember gloss white being a pain, but this is a whole other level!  At least I know I haven't bought rubbish paint..  Need to get flexing the shaking muscles 💪

 

Al.

[colin]

I'm very surprised your actually managing to brush paint these paints straight from the pot

[alhenderson]

Just now, colin said:

I'm very supprised your actually managing to brush paint these paints straight from the pot

Well, I'm not really... Am I doing something wrong?

[colin]

You will need their Mr paint retarder to thin them out for brush painting, even then they tend to dry on the brush very quickly and can lift the previous coats when you try to over paint them.

They are best suited to airbrushing to be honest.Vallejo/revell acrylic paints, or enamels, you would have more success with I think

Tonyot is the master on here with the brush painted finishes, he may well have some words of advice on how to use them. I use an airbrush so can't really give you much help on brush painting large areas I'm afraid, only that several thin coats are better than trying to cover it in one thick coat

[Steve Noble]

They're not the best suited paints to use with a brush. Flow enhancer will help, but you still might struggle a little. For airbrushing they are fine and spray really nicely. I would probably use Vallejo model colour for brush painting myself. Had some decent results with it..

[bmwh548]

White is nearly impossible to get right when using a brush. Clean up the model, get a rattle can with the shade of white that suits your needs and just do it like that. Way easier. 

[alhenderson]

Thanks everyone for the replies.  What a minefield!  Think I might have to revert back to enamels for this to take the place of the two jars of Mr Hobby that I bought for this kit.  Annoying, because I like the convenience and ease of cleaning of acrylics.  I'll then take a view of what paints to use for up coming Phantom and Tornado (although the rate I'm going we'll have invented some whacky new space age paint scheme by then!).

 

Al.

[Bo hermansen]

On 1/29/2019 at 10:18 PM, alhenderson said:

Evening All,

 

I'm just starting out on a 1:72 A-4 and went to the local model shop to get the paints I needed (first kit in a long time, so starting from scratch).  I expected to buy Humbrol, cos that's what I know, but the owner said he didn't stock them as he "didn't like them".  Instead he sold me acrylic Mr Hobby "Hobby Colour".  So, I have the gloss white (of which there is a lot on a 1960s USN fighter).  I'm finding that it goes on really badly - its almost like its too thin.  So far I have 3 coats on and it looks like its going to need at least another 2, if I ever get a decent finish.

 

I can't believe this is normal for acrylic paints (I haven't got much experience with them).  Have I got a bad batch?  Are Mr Hobby not actually as good as the chap in the shop seems to think? I've given it a good stir, shake and left it sitting upside down for ages, all to no avail.  I don't want to be having to put this many coats on when I do the outside.

 

Any thoughts?  Hints?  Should point out that I'm using a good old fashioned brush.  Are these paints maybe designed for air brushing?

 

Thanks,

Al.

Hi Al

 

Mr Hobby is Gunze's Acrylic paint, it is in reality an oil paint that has been made water soluble, this means that you can use Gunze's own acrylic thinner "Mr Hobby" or Tamiyas X-20A acrylic thinner, BUT you can also use Gunzes lacquer thinner "Mr colors" or Tamiyas lacquer thinner., Mr hobby goes both ways

 

Mix about 40% thinner and 60% paint, and set pressure 1,5 -2,0 bar

 

Bo

[Graham Boak]

I'm astonished that there's a model shop in the UK that doesn't sell Humbrol, and recommend that you try to find another.  Railway modelling shops are more common than aircraft shops and fairly certain to have Humbrol - art shops might.  White, yellow, and red are very difficult colours to brush paint.  I've tried mixing gloss and matt whites in order to get acceptable coverage, very well stirred as everyone else has said, but I agree that over a large area you will probably be better with either an airbrush or a spray can.  Either that or ending up with a thick caked finish.

 

There does seem to be some kind of contradiction between your comment of them being too thin and Colin's amazement that you can brush them straight from the pot.

 

I've a cynical belief that selling paints "suitable for airbrushing" is just a means of selling less pigment for more money, at the excuse of convenience.  I'd prefer to buy thicker paint and thin to my own taste.

[nheather]

Must admit that I kind of yearn back to my days if enamels.

 

I am fairly recently returned to the hobby after thirty odd years.  As a kud I used to build a lot and enamels were the only option - I used Humbrol exclusively.  Back in those days I only brush painted, couldn’t afford airbrushing equipment.

 

Now that I have returned I have trued to convert to acrylics and have put in a fair investment now and I do have airbrushing equipment now.  But in my opinion the only benefit they really have is solvent - not having to use white spirit.

 

But I’m continually frustrated with acrylics and actually I find them quite annoying.  “You have to put retarder in” - if it needs retarder why isn’t it just included as part of the formula, “you have to use the right thinners - you mustn’t use ABC thinners in XYZ  paint” and “yes, they are best used with an airbrush”.

 

I think the only time I have found using acrylics agreeable is with figure painting.

 

If it weren’t for my investment and the noxious solvent I’d be back to enamels like a shot.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[colin]

Nigel, are you thinning your acrylics with just water for spraying

[alhenderson]

16 hours ago, Bo hermansen said:

Hi Al

 

Mr Hobby is Gunze's Acrylic paint, it is in reality an oil paint that has been made water soluble, this means that you can use Gunze's own acrylic thinner "Mr Hobby" or Tamiyas X-20A acrylic thinner, BUT you can also use Gunzes lacquer thinner "Mr colors" or Tamiyas lacquer thinner., Mr hobby goes both ways

 

Mix about 40% thinner and 60% paint, and set pressure 1,5 -2,0 bar

 

Bo

Thanks Bo, but I'm brushing, not air-brushing.  Having only just re-started the hobby, not quite ready to invest in an airbrush.  As I originally said, I think the paint is already too thin for brushing, so I can't see how thinning it any more will help.

 

Al.

[nheather]

1 hour ago, colin said:

Nigel, are you thinning your acrylics with just water for spraying

Hi Colin,

 

No I don’t have a particular problem, it’s just all the posts I read, acrylics just seem so fussy and temperamental.

 

I use UMP Universal thinners.  Before that an IPA/Water mix.  But I see so many posts saying “make sure you use the manufacturer’s thinners, if you use ABC in XYZ then it will go gloopy”.

 

If you listened to all the advice, you’d have seven bottles of different thinners on the workbench.

 

Then there is retarder - you need to add this for brush painting or to stop tip dry - why isn’t it included in the paint as standard then.

 

And there is the “can’t use this paint for brushing, it’s only good for airbrushing, even though it doesn’t say anything like that on the bottle”.

 

Life was so much easier with enamels.  You could have four different makes - thin and clean them all with whit spirit.  Want to brush paint, fine just paint from the tin or add a little white spirit.  Want to speay, then add more white spirit.  Need to clean you brushes or airbrush, hey use white spirit.  But where do I get this magical solvent from, do I need to put in an online order and wait for days like for acrlic thinners - nope just pop down to B&Q (other DIY shops are available.

 

Seriously, if it weren’t for the smell and health considerations of white spirit I would stick with enamels.  And the threats, years ago that the sale of oil-based paints were going to  be banned - that never happened.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[alhenderson]

18 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

I'm astonished that there's a model shop in the UK that doesn't sell Humbrol, and recommend that you try to find another.  Railway modelling shops are more common than aircraft shops and fairly certain to have Humbrol - art shops might.

To be fair, he stocked Humbrol enamels, just not acrylic. I wanted the latter due to ease of cleaning and not having to deal with white spirit.

 

As Nigel has said, life was simpler in "the old days" when there was just enamel, you just bought it and got on with it. I was a prolific modeller and only every had to resort to messing with the paint consistency when I had some that was a bit old and is well but put the lid on properly 😁

 

All a bit of a minefield. Did briefly toy with the idea of getting an airbrush earlier as I have a couple of kits now waiting to be built, but don't think I can justify the cost at the moment. If I got one, I'd want it to be a decent one and not a cheapy one that is frustrating to use.

 

Cheers,

Al

 

Looks like I'm on hold anyway since the wife's got me decorating again and one of the kids needs to move into the spare room where I'm at up at the moment 😔

[colin]

6 hours ago, nheather said:

Seriously, if it weren’t for the smell and health considerations of white spirit I would stick with enamels.  And the threats, years ago that the sale of oil-based paints were going to  be banned - that never happened.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel 

It doesn't matter what you are spraying you should either be wearing a mask of extracting it outside with a fan and preferably both.

Because their acrylics you still don't want to be breathing them in while spraying.

You say about the smell of white spirit, have you tried odourless white spirt for thinning, I use it for oil washes etc,that maybe one way of using enamels.

 

 

[nheather]

2 hours ago, colin said:

It doesn't matter what you are spraying you should either be wearing a mask of extracting it outside with a fan and preferably both.

Because their acrylics you still don't want to be breathing them in while spraying.

You say about the smell of white spirit, have you tried odourless white spirt for thinning, I use it for oil washes etc,that maybe one way of using enamels.

 

 

Good point about the precautions when spraying.  I do have a booth and masks but I put my hand up, I’m guilty of not using them for small jobs.

 

No, I’ve not heard of odourless white spirit before - how odourless is it?

 

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

[Steve Noble]

If you can afford one invest in a spray extractor. Your work environment will be odour free and ever so pleasant to work in. No nasty smells and you can use whatever paints you like!! I bought my GraphicAir A300sd many years ago and it really was the best investment I ever made..

[lasermonkey]

Having tried odourless white spirit with both Humbrol and Colourcoats, I can't recommend it at all. It turned the paint into a jelly-like mess.

Best avoided!

[alhenderson]

Apologies for resurrecting an old post, but I'm still struggling with painting gloss white! Have moved on to an RAF phantom which has a fair bit of gloss white in the details (and the A-4 is still sitting looking neglected).  Thought I'd try Matt white and then a coat of gloss, but whilst it goes on better, it's still taking >5 coats!

 

Thought I'd look into rattle cans (airbrush not an option for now, sadly). I've seen Tamiya mentioned on here a number of times, have also found that humbrol do them. Any advice of which one to choose? Seen some Amazon reviews of the humbrol saying it's too thin, don't need that frustration again!

 

Thanks,

Al

[Rob G]

Gunze Sangyo paints are excellent IME. Much my preferred acrylics. That said, I don't brush large areas with them, it's usually small areas or airbrushed.

 

Tamiya spray cans are also excellent. High quality paint that dries hard and in a thin, dense layer. Shake really well, and warm the can in hot water before spraying - the paint is lacquer, which loves heat. I've used them on cars, bikes, and aircraft models, and have nothing but good to say. Be aware that the nozzle is like a shotgun with open chokes - copious quantities of paint will come out, which can lead to runs and the like if you're not careful. A practice run on a scrap model is useful to get a feel for how it goes. Like all sprayed paint, apply a light mist coat and allow it a couple of minutes to flash off before going back to add a heavier second coat. Wait for a while before adding more, I try to leave it a day or so. A light rubdown with fine paper or steel wool to remove stray bits of dust and a second coat usually sorts it right out. I also decant them to put through my airbrush, where they are also a delight.

 

I haven't used Humbrol sprays for 30 years or more, and I wasn't impressed back then. A number of the ones I had lost pressure after use, some were even flat from new. Paint splattering, globby bits, the whole thing. They may now be good, may not be. Tamiya has never failed me, so I stick with what works.

 

Your thoughts of a matt base then adding the gloss colour on top is good. As has been said, white is a bear to get looking good, but a matt base helps immensely. Tamiya's white primer is a good base, especially if the plastic is dark or coloured. Their grey primers are also good. As in all things, a bit of practice reaps rewards. Try things on test pieces before committing to the real thing, and it should all fall into place.

[alhenderson]

@Rob G thanks for the info.  I have two needs for gloss white at the moment - the details (intakes, wheel wells, landing gear etc) on my RAF F-4K and the exterior of a USN A-4.  Thinking spray can might be best, certainly for the latter, will it also be suitable for the smaller items on my Phantom, or is that using a sledgehammer to crack a nut?  If I do go for the Tamiya cans (not tempted by the Humbrol in the slightest given my recent experiences with them!), I note there are 3 different types - TS, AS and PS.  Not obvious to me what the differences are.  Any hints?

 

Thanks,

Al.

[bmwh548]

I've recently used Model Master Enamel Insignia White (which they claim is semigloss but dries more in the gloss department to me) for brushing small areas (5 by 5 milimeters maximum). Being enamel it self levels nicely and it covers very well in a single pass. 

[TimB]

I use Gunze white as a top coat on occasion, but prefer Tamiya Flat White/White thinned with Gunze Self Leveling Thinner.  For larger areas, I decant Halfords white primer/Appliance White.  You can spray Gunze over well dried Halfords, but I've had bad reactions trying to spray Halfords top coat over Gunze/Tamiya flat.  Hope that helps!

Regards

Tim