1:72 Aki Products Hawker Sea Fury FB.11

[Massimo]

WHAT A WONDERFUL KIT!!!

And you've don great sofar!!!

That engine can speak!!!

Great stuff!!!

[CJP]

Hello Bill - this is a very interesting kit and build - I have a couple of photos I took at Bankstown airport NSW in 1970 - WH588 114/NW is repainted as the red VH-BOU on the  civilian register - WH589 115/NW has her smart dark blue colour faded to a weathered grey

I think your model would look very nice in her in service pristine over all blue scheme.

CJP

Edited February 22, 2019 by CJP

[NAVY870]

6 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

So, let's talk about this nice blue RAN bird. With those restored ex-Iraqi warbirds flying around with that scheme, you have to sift through a lot to find what I think are actual period photos. Here's what I've found on the net - is it true? I don't know, maybe @NAVY870 knows. Apparently, there were two Sea Furies painted in the overall Oxford Blue scheme, and they were used as a display team in the early 60s. The two were WH588 114/NW and WH589 115/NW. Here are a couple of photos of the two:

 

 

 

I found these colour photos of WH589:

 

 

 

Note that the spinner is blue, not white as shown in the decal sheet or as in the restored warbird. It's hard to tell, but this overall blue scheme may be similar to the USN overall Dark Sea Blue scheme in that the wheel wells, gear doors, and gear struts may also be blue as is the arresting hook. The wheels appear to be aluminium. I read on an R/C site that the inside of the flaps were also blue. Hmm...I sure hope Steve tells me what to do before I do something naughty!   

 

Overall Oxford Blue including gear doors and legs. The gear wells remained in Hawker yellow.

Blue interior on the flaps and the flap well.

 

I actually had the STI for painting these two birds in my grubby mitts back in the early FAA Museum days, do you think I can find the bugger now?

[giemme]

9 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

will be adding the gear to the model prior to painting - I know some folks wait until after painting

I, for one, do that after painting - because I'm sure I'd knock them off, and I'm afraid I'm not gonna get better at that with age ....  

 

She looks gorgeous, Bill!

Can't wait to see the lady in blue 😉

 

Ciao

 

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

A classic illustration of the perils of interpreting photographs - even colour ones.  I know for a fact that those 2 Aussie cabs were Oxford Blue... but if I didn’t I’d be worrying now, because those pics make the colour look much darker.  Stick to what you know, rather than what you think you perceive.

 

Great work, as ever, Bill

[Navy Bird]

16 hours ago, CJP said:

I think your model would look very nice in her in service pristine over all blue scheme.

 

Me too! Thanks for those photos, I wondered what had happened to WH588. I ran across some photos of WH589 on the net that were taken at Bankstown, and one thing I noticed is that it doesn't look like the spinner was white, rather it looks like the blue paint on the spinner has worn off:

 

 

This also shows what looks like a replacement canopy frame on the sliding part - it appears white or silver. I wonder if these are the reasons that the Xtradecal instructions say to paint the spinner white and canopy silver for the aircraft circa 1961? And why the modern warbird is painted the way it is? The colour photos of the two blue birds in service were supposedly taken in 1962, and it's pretty obvious that the spinner and canopy are blue. Did Xtradecal got it wrong, or were they simply following the lead of the restored warbird?

 

15 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

Overall Oxford Blue including gear doors and legs. The gear wells remained in Hawker yellow.

Blue interior on the flaps and the flap well.

 

I actually had the STI for painting these two birds in my grubby mitts back in the early FAA Museum days, do you think I can find the bugger now?

 

Perfect! Thanks Steve, without your sage advice I would have been naughty and painted the gear wells blue.  

 

12 hours ago, giemme said:

I, for one, do that after painting - because I'm sure I'd knock them off, and I'm afraid I'm not gonna get better at that with age ....

 

Yeah, I knock off a few, but that gives me practice in gluing them back on.  

 

12 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

A classic illustration of the perils of interpreting photographs - even colour ones.  I know for a fact that those 2 Aussie cabs were Oxford Blue... but if I didn’t I’d be worrying now, because those pics make the colour look much darker.  Stick to what you know, rather than what you think you perceive.

 

Yup, never trust a photo for colour, especially B&W ones!  

 

Oxford Blue has ever been in doubt, and hope no one thought I posted those photos to try and suggest otherwise. I was more interested in showing the blue spinner. Oxford Blue is a fairly dark colour, though, its light reflectance value is only 5% according to these guys. But you're right about those photos (especially the second one) - she looks almost black.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Rabbit Leader]

I know this query won't relate to your exact (straight wing) build Bill, however for those who own the new Airfix kit I'm wondering what is the colour of the internal wing fold bits? From those coloured photos, it's hard to tell if it's Hawker Yellow or the original Sky paint left there prior to the Oxford Blue repaint? 

 

Anyway - apologies for the late acknowledgment Bill, this is looking to be another master class in naval modelling. Lovely work so far mate. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

[NAVY870]

7 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

I know this query won't relate to your exact (straight wing) build Bill, however for those who own the new Airfix kit I'm wondering what is the colour of the internal wing fold bits? From those coloured photos, it's hard to tell if it's Hawker Yellow or the original Sky paint left there prior to the Oxford Blue repaint? 

 

Anyway - apologies for the late acknowledgment Bill, this is looking to be another master class in naval modelling. Lovely work so far mate. 

 

Cheers.. Dave

Hawker yellow

[CJP]

I also had a look on the web for photos of these two Sea Furies Bill and could only find in service photos with Oxford blue spinners and canopy frame - I wonder if they acquired the white spinners/canopy frame when in civilian service at Bankstown where I read they were used for a target towing contract to the military - http://www.edcoatescollection.com/ac1/austb/VH-BOU(2).html

If you look at VH-BOU on that link it has the same white spinner/canopy frame as WH589?

In your photo of 115 the faded grey definitely has a blue tinge to it to me.

I really like that link to the paint colour charts and the Oxford Blue swatch - now saved to my favourites

CJP

Edited February 23, 2019 by CJP
text

[Navy Bird]

On 22/02/2019 at 18:18, CJP said:

I really like that link to the paint colour charts and the Oxford Blue swatch - now saved to my favourites

 

Yeah, that's a great site. I use it all the time. I especially like clicking on the swatch and getting a list of alternative standard colours along with how close of a match they are. Very useful.

 

***

 

I was all set to start painting when I discovered that I don't have any Oxford Blue. O wretched me! According to Humbrol, it's their 104 - but based on many, many posts here on BM it's not a good choice. Humbrol say Tamiya XF-17 is an equivalent match, but, uh, I don't think so, that's USN Non-specular Dark Sea Blue (WWII version).

 

So off I went to my usual hobby suppliers and everyone was out of stock. Why the run on Oxford Blue? I was hoping to find a tin of Colourcoats, but the US stockists were, well, out of stockists. I managed to find a bottle of Hataka Oxford Blue (in their Orange line) so I bought it. Probably be a week or so before it gets here. I've never used Hataka, but I've read some reviews (not all kind). Any of you guys used it? This is their lacquer, not the acrylic.

 

I have two Fujimi kits where they give a mix for Oxford Blue using Gunze - and of course the two mixes are different. One is 9 parts H5 Blue +1 part H35 Cobalt Blue (this one seems odd) and the other is 2 parts H326 FS15044 Insignia Blue + 1 part H328 FS15050 Blue Angel Blue (closer?).

 

Nick Millman says the closest FS match (using L*a*b values) is 25051 (@ 2.26) which I don't think anyone makes. Best match using Munsell is 25048 (@3.19). These would both tell me that the second Fujimi mix has reasonable ingredients, but probably not the right ratio. How about Tamiya X4? That looks a lot like Raspberry Ripple photos that I have, notwithstanding the use of photos to judge colour.

 

This would be a lot easier if there were only one hobby paint manufacturer...

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. @NAVY870 I found an old post from your daughter where she stated that RANAMO.Sea Fury.A163 was the painting specification for the two blue Sea Furies. Just in case that comes up again.

[NAVY870]

3 hours ago, Navy Bird said:

 

 

PS. @NAVY870 I found an old post from your daughter where she stated that RANAMO.Sea Fury.A163 was the painting specification for the two blue Sea Furies. Just in case that comes up again.

Madams out clevered herself there, A.163 is the painting instructions for Sea Furies general

As the blue ones were a one off scheme it was done under an STI as these were raised to covered either "fix it now"

issues or single time changes. For example the 3 Ikara Sea Venoms were covered under an STI since it didnt affect the entire fleet.

Simples

 

[TANK63]

Looks like it makes into a stunning model

[stevehnz]

I've liked Sea Furies since I built my first Frog one near 50 years ago but I'd not thought to do a dark blue one till reading this, again, as some of my reactions will show. Now, I'm all enthusiasm & while I may not aspire to an Aki kit, maybe, I can see a dark blue one in my future. My Dad would have said " It's just as well I'm no a lassie, I'm so easily persuaded "

Steve.

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

I’m the same, Steve - though in my case I’ve always wanted to do justice to a Dutch Sea Fury with the orange nose (my best mate is a Cloggie & I spent some time flying an RN Lynx from the deck of the tanker Zuiderkruis - a good time was had by all!).  You can guess how chuffed I am with the schemes offered in the 2nd release of the Airfix Fury!

[Navy Bird]

I've managed to accomplish a few items on the Sea Fury. First, the landing gear is on. Aki cast the main gear components in the same clear resin as the canopy and lights. I assume this is because the clear resin appears to be stronger, at least in some simple bending comparisons that I did. It was interesting adding the smaller linkages to the kit, as these seemed, well, invisible since they were clear. Good thing I had some magnifiers. The tail wheel is cast in the same yellow resin as the rest of the kit, and I mounted it with a bit of swivel. I think the set of the model looks good. Here is a shot with the rubber tyres temporarily in place (and without the inboard halves of the hubs).

 

 

The main gear components were quite positive in their mounting (once I identified the holes and pegs in the clear plastic). There was very little wiggle room, but there was no adjustment necessary. Even the slight splay angle of the main gear (I remember reading 2 degrees somewhere) was reproduced without me knowing it.

 

 

Did I ever say that this kit never ceases to amaze me?  

 

I received two containers of Oxford Blue, one from Hataka in Poland and one from Mr. Paint in Slovakia. I test sprayed them both and found little difference between the appearance of the colours. The Hataka version is perhaps a bit lighter and maybe a little more purple. But you really have to look to see it. I used Hataka's Orange Line lacquer, which although advertised as "optimised for airbrush" needed a bit more thinner to suit my taste. I thinned it with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner with no difficulties. Mr. Paint's bottle was from their lacquer line as well, and needed no thinner whatsoever. In fact, it was thinner than what I normally spray, but once I figured out the proper airbrush and compressor settings, was no problem. Really, both paints sprayed like a dream, but if I had to choose one whilst on a desert isle, I'd first ask where do I plug in the compressor?   

 

So painting this baby is in the near future. I've received good instructions from @NAVY870 but I forgot to ask him one question - did these display aircraft also have black walkways on each wing root? Oh, and the turtle deck behind the headrest, was this black or the fuselage colour? If black, how much of the area was painted, and what was the shape of this patch? I've seen some photos where it looked rectangular, and was visible outside the canopy when it was closed. Hmm, that's more than one question. Sorry!

 

Cheers,

Bill

[NAVY870]

Black and only the area covered by the canopy when its closed.

 

 

 

[Navy Bird]

5 hours ago, NAVY870 said:

Black and only the area covered by the canopy when its closed.

 

Thanks, Steve. Do you think these blue Sea Furies had black walkways on the wing root? The warbirds that are painted that way today have them, but I want to model the aircraft as it was back then.

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Martian]

Vallejo might well be your friend here if you want to go down the acrylic route.

 

Martian 👽

[RidgeRunner]

This is making up to be a beautiful build :), of what - in my opinion - is the most attactive single piston fighter ever made . That is sight and sound.  

 

Martin

Edited March 8, 2019 by RidgeRunner

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

3 minutes ago, RidgeRunner said:

...the most attactive single piston fighter ever made. That is sight and sound. 

Who would dare disagree?  Only a person without taste...

[06/24]

Then call me tasteless, for handsome though the Sea Fury is, nothing can compete with the clean beauty of early mark Spitfires in my mind. 

 

This model, on the other hand is an exquisite jewel of a thing.

[Rabbit Leader]

Looking forward to seeing some Blue paint on this build Bill. Come to think of it, it’ll be good to see your Oxford Blue paint comparisons as well. You’ve already tempted me to purchase Xtradecals 1/48 sheet, now I’d like to know what paints I should buy. I don’t mind Lacquers, so the MRP option might suit me well. All in good time of course. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

[Terry1954]

2 hours ago, 06/24 said:

nothing can compete with the clean beauty of early mark Spitfires in my mind. 

Well I have to agree with @RidgeRunner and @Ex-FAAWAFU on the Sea Fury front. However, since you mention Spitfires, for me it has to be a Griffon bird every time, and if it says "Royal Navy" on the side so much the better. Perhaps there are degrees of taste? 😁

 

Great work Bill!

 

Terry

[Ex-FAAWAFU]

9 hours ago, Terry1954 said:

 Spitfires, for me it has to be a Griffon bird every time, and if it says "Royal Navy" on the side so much the better.

Seafire FR46.  I rest my case.

 

[But the Fury’s still even more lovely - especially with the early low ESDG/Sky demarkation].

 

Beauty, eye of beholder, etc.  After all, @Fritag once alleged that helicopters are all ugly - I understand his corrective eye surgery is imminent, but even so...

[Navy Bird]

21 hours ago, Martian Hale said:

Vallejo might well be your friend here if you want to go down the acrylic route.

 

Oh, I've no problems spraying lacquers. Besides, there really is no such thing as an "acrylic" paint, not in the way we refer to enamel and lacquer (or latex if you're painting your house) as being types of paint. The Mr. Paint Oxford Blue that I have is a solvent-based acrylic lacquer (similar to Mr. Color), and I suspect the orange line of Hataka is the same (although it doesn't say that on the bottle) since it thins nicely with Mr. Color Leveling Thinner.

 

The acrylic portion of hobby paint is what we in the US call the "vehicle" of the paint - the part that bonds with the pigment and remains on the model after the solvent dries, cures, or evaporates. Solvents keep the paint liquid in the bottle, and can be petroleum or water based.

 

Or something like that.  

 

12 hours ago, Ex-FAAWAFU said:

Who would dare disagree?  Only a person without taste...

 

What does it mean when I say I'm quite fond of the Fairey Barracuda?   

 

11 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Looking forward to seeing some Blue paint on this build Bill. Come to think of it, it’ll be good to see your Oxford Blue paint comparisons as well.

 

Was I going to do a comparison? OK.

 

 

**

 

I'm just about ready to paint the Sea Fury. I made up some new cowling panels out of 0.005" card stock to protect the engine, and glued them in place with dabs of white glue, which can easily be removed later. Believe it or not, after all the praise I've given this kit, its panels are too wide, and too long, and won't fit without some sanding.

 

 

Cheers,

Bill