Churchill Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 (edited) I will be building this: But first, a confession - I haven't built a scale model in about 37 years. The closest I've come is painting WH40K minifigs and scratchbuilding a couple of grot tanks to go with them. Edited January 25, 2019 by Churchill Duplicate pic removed 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 Obligatory sprues shot: I have to say, I am immensely impressed with the level of detail and the quality of the injection moulding. The only issue I have with the kit is that there is no option to make it with the cupola hatch open. That's a shame because while I do intend to do a little fettling (where's the fun otherwise?) I don't fancy cutting the hatch out and making a new one. I'm also a little puzzled by the tracks. They're moulded in one straight run and the instructions show them being bent round the wheels, but they seem to be made from polystyrene rather than a soft vinyl and I'd worry about them breaking - do you warm them in hot water first or something? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Nice looking kit Churchill, you can warm the tracks in warm water but I think that’s just to stretch them if there a little short. I think they may have used the 1/35 instructions as that kit has the solid moulded tracks you mention. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 The kit comes with options to build number 536 of 12th Panzer Div, Normandy 1944 or number 1251 of 24th Panzer Div, central Ukraine 1943. I'll go with the latter as I fancy a go at the winter cam. So I start looking round the web for pictures of panzer IV's, and specifically the H version, more just to get a feel for it than for any particular reference, and I find a few of this example: Hang on, that number sounds familiar... What kind, thoughtful and considerate young men they must have been, taking pictures of their tank for the benefit of future modellers. The first thing I notice is that I won't nees the decals, as the number is hand-painted over the zimmerit. The second thing I notice is - zimmerit! Blummen acres of the stuff! I'm going to have to work out how to get some on there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 So before starting the kit, I experimented with a few techniques for representing zimmerit in 1:72 scale, using some plastic card and a tool made from a sliver of 0.2mm brass mounted in a wooden rod. Melting the surface with extra thin cement - worse than useless. Coating with epoxy glue - too liquid to take an impression. There might be window when it's firm enough, but if you miss it the part is ruined. Milliput - difficult, it doesn't stick well to the surface and it's very difficult to roll it to a thin sheet or handle it once you have. Liquid green stuff - too liquid to take a good impression. Green stuff - pretty good, just takes a day to cure. Perfect plastic putty - an old tube I had lying around, it had thickened up a bit in the tube. Once you spread a thin layer on, it's perfect. I might remake the schurzen with brass or aluminium sheet, so I tested to see if the PPP would stick to metals... ... works fine, so the plan was to go with the PPP. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 25, 2019 Author Share Posted January 25, 2019 In practice, the PPP was a bit of a nightmare. Very difficult to get a thin layer sticking to the plastic. I resorted to mixing the old PPP with some from a brand new tube to soften it slightly but it was still horrible on the small surfaces of the turret, mantlet and glacis. If you look carefully, you'll notice that I've replaced the grab handles on either side of the turret with brass wire. I wasn't particularly unhappy with the kit parts, but this is supposed to be a learning experience, so let's try things. Getting frustrated with the PPP, I had another go with Green Stuff. It sticks nicely and you can squoosh it out to a nice thin layer. I might use PPP on the schurzen skirts, but for small areas and the turret schurzen, Green Stuff is definitely best. Progress at close of play on day 1: 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 Had to spend the day with the outlaws but I found time for just a little progress. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Coming along nicely, the zimmerit looks really good, must be tough and fiddly to do at that scale. Looks like you’re learning lots with this build though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Hi Churchill and welcome to the GB. Great looking project you've got going there - and good luck with the Zimmerit!! Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 27, 2019 Author Share Posted January 27, 2019 A little progress today, attaching what must be some of the teeniest parts ever put in a kit... The only construction left is the wheels and tracks, and the schurzen. I'll leave the wheels until I've put primer on, and that'll have to wait until the compressor and airbrush I just ordered arrives. The schurzen may be a challenge. Will hopefully tackle them this week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Progress is progress! Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewy Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Excellent zimmerit job, most impressed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 28, 2019 Author Share Posted January 28, 2019 Right, those schurzen. While the detail in the kit is astonishingly good, the schurzen are inevitably a bit on the thick side. I measured them at a shade under 0.7mm. Thats a scale thickness of about 50mm, but so far as I can find out the real thing was only 5 to 8mm thick. They just dont look right to me. 0.12mm brass sheet will be about right. Pictures of 1251 mostly show it with a full set of side skirts, but at least one photo shows that like most tanks it eventually shed a panel or two. I'll model it with a couple of missing panels each side. The zimmerit goes on, a little distressed here and there. A might have a go with green stuff, see which version I like best. Green stuff doesn't seem to have any adhesion to (emery papered) brass at all, but it sticks down ok once cured. I thought about an aftermarket gun barrel, but there's nothing at all wrong with the kit part. Also, I might model it with a canvas wrap over the muzzle brake anyway, as I've found a few pics from the Eastern front suggesting that it was a common practice in winter. My airbrush is supposed to arrive on Monday, and I'm on leave that day. Would be good to have the tank ready for primer. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badder Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 Hi Mr Churchill sir, Welcome to the AFV forum and hats off to you for jumping straight into a Group Build. BTW, those grot tanks count as scale models (to me anyway) That aside, you're not shy of zimmerit are you? Most would shudder at the thought in 1/35th, let alone 1/72nd! Good luck with that, and enjoy! Rearguards, Badder 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted January 29, 2019 Share Posted January 29, 2019 Great work on the schurzen and zimmerit! Very nicely done. Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 I haven't yet decided whether or how the model will be based, but these fellows arrived in the post today, and might be involved - anyone got any pointers about the whens, wheres, and whos of German eastern front troops wearing grey greatcoats rather than white camo? To the right of the pic you can see yesterday's progress on the turret schurzen. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Hi Churchill. Good to see you've made progress with the turret schurzen but I'm afraid I cannot help with your clothing question. I'm sure somebody more knowledgeable than me will be able to help. Kind regards, Stix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, PlaStix said: Hi Churchill. Good to see you've made progress with the turret schurzen but I'm afraid I cannot help with your clothing question. I'm sure somebody more knowledgeable than me will be able to help. Kind regards, Stix Not to worry, I have plenty of time to investigate. All I really need to know is: is there any reason those chaps shouldn't be in the Ukraine in 1943? . . . I mean, in terms of historical accuracy. With regard to ethics and international law I think we know the answer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, Churchill said: is there any reason those chaps shouldn't be in the Ukraine in 1943 Ive done a little research on the dress for my build, from late 1942 the reversible jacket and trousers were issued. However the troops still preferred the long grey coat as it was warmer so I've read, so there is no reason why they wouldn't be out of place. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: Ive done a little research on the dress for my build, from late 1942 the reversible jacket and trousers were issued. However the troops still preferred the long grey coat as it was warmer so I've read, so there is no reason why they wouldn't be out of place. Thank you Mr Ozzy, that is exactly what I needed to know. I may have a go at putting the tank and the troops into a little diorama. I had in mind something very like your Panzer in the East build, perhaps I'll have to think of something to make it a bit different. For the last couple of days I've been working on the turret schurzen. These have a pair of doors on each side, corresponding to the side hatches on the turret. Each pair has an overlap strip down the centre, and four hinges. I started by cutting the whole thing as a single strip of brass. The locations of the doors were marked, and to make the doors look more like separate parts I cut fine slots in from the top and bottom edge to about the location of the hinges. Each slot just made with two scissor cuts as close to each other as possible, and the resulting sliver of brass plucked out. The overlap strips are just cut from thin plastic card and cyano'd down. Gel cyano, as with the liquid stuff they later pinged as soon as I touched them. For the hinges, I cut two strips of card and glued them together offset so that the cross-section of the assembly formed the z shape of the hinge. Once thoroughly set I could then shave off a sliver for each hinge: Gluing these in place was a challenge, helped by picking them up with a tiny bead of blu-tack held in tweezers. Once set, I was able to thin them down with some 1000 grit sandpaper. After that, it was zimmerit time again: I'll give that a day or two to cure before bending the schurzen into a curve using the kit parts as a template, and folding in the triangular sections at the tips. And that's about as far as I can go until my airbrush and compressor turn up, but they're not due to be delivered until Monday. Now what's this parcel in the porch? Ooh, look... I'd better get practicing... Edited January 31, 2019 by Churchill minor typo. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted January 31, 2019 Author Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 11:08 PM, Badder said: BTW, those grot tanks count as scale models (to me anyway) Well, if you say so, Mr Badder. I wonder if I've got time to scratch up a Grot Nashorn by March 17th? 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlaStix Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 Very impressive work with those very small parts and again with zimmerit! Kind regards, Stix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silenoz Posted February 1, 2019 Share Posted February 1, 2019 That zimmerit is a pain for most in 1/35, and you do it in 1/72... nice work... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Churchill Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 (edited) The observant among you will notice that I've shamelessly nicked Mr Stix's idea of using the instruction sheet as a photographic backdrop in this post. The very observant may spot a visitor who turned up to inspect progress. His contribution was that it; "wants more dakka", which is frankly not constructive. I've now added the schurzen support brackets to the hull and turret. I did briefly consider remaking them, or parts of them, in brass but I felt better after a little lie down and settled for slightly thinning down the kit parts. Not to anything like scale thickness, but enough to take off a little of the bulkiness. The rails for the sideskirts are not attached, as I think they'll be a bit in the way for painting. Each of the 'crocodile teeth' has a sort of rectangular collar moulded on the inner face (red arrow in the pic below) . This I believe represents the bracket on the sideskirt that drops over the crocodile tooth. So the teeth that would have held the panels I'm leaving off needed to be reprofiled (blue arrow), followed by a little thinning. Here you can see the rear section of the turret schurzen, the green stuff zimmerit came out quite well. I noticed in post #20 that in places it wasn't well defined, probably where I'd thoughtlessly stuck my finger on it while working on another area. Fortunately green stuff is designed for sculpting and stays workable for a few hours so I was able to smarten it up. I said in the same post that once cured it does seem to stick down to metal surfaces, but I've since had a look at some of my practice pieces and it will peel off fairly easily if you pick at it a bit. Next time I'd be tempted to make it in smaller sections and peel each section off and cyano it back down again - that holds it. Here's a side view of the turret. It's interesting to compare the detail, particularly the side hatch, with the Revell kit (as being beautifully made by Mr Badger elsewhere in this forum (how do you tag someone? )) I haven't yet had a chance to play with my new airbrush, but might have a go this evening. If all goes well I could get a layer of primer down. The brush is only a cheap Chinese copy that came bundled with the compressor. I might pick up a Harder and Steenbeck Ultra after payday, or ask for one for my birthday later this month. I'm taking Her Indoors to the cabinet war rooms tomorrow, that should keep her well-disposed towards me. Thanks for reading, Churchill. Edited February 3, 2019 by Churchill Typos and missing pic 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 Nice going Churhill, the addition security looks fantastic. To tag someone you start with the @ symbol then start typing their name @Churchill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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