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RidgeRunner

RB-57A Air sampling pods

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Hi All, 

 

my head is thinking way ahead about future builds and one I want to build is a weather RB-57A, for which I have both a High Planes RB-57A and S&M Canberra in the pile. My question is about the air sampling pods, like this:

 

image

credit: www.gonavy.jp

 

I am considering the modification of something like a F-105 wing tank. Would that work? Does anyone out there have dimensions or drawings of these?

 

maybe @canberra kid knows?

 

thanks in advance.

 

Martin

 

 

Edited by RidgeRunner

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Martin,

 

If you don't hear from John, that pod sorta looks like an F-89 wingtip pod with a modified nose section. Hard to tell without knowing the dimensions, to be sure. Or maybe a napalm store normally carried by B-57B's with an extended center section and modified nose?

Mike

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Hi Martin & Mike

 

Good choice, it's one that's been on my list for quite some time, now, the sample pods, I would say they are converted tanks but I'm not sure which ones they are, if they are Napalm tanks as @72modeler Mike thinks and for what it's worth that's what I was thinking too the most likely candidate could be this.

BXPn3D.jpg

but I've been talking with a friend of mine who was with the 58th WRS, he thinks they were new builds but I'm not convinced. I've put out some feelers and am awaiting a response, if and when I get some info I'll get back to you. 

 

John 

 

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Hi John @canberra kid,

 

Thanks a lot for your thoughts. I'd discount the napalm tanks. The shape isn't right, particularly at the tail end. Sorry, Mike! @72modeler. I still think a Thud-type tank is closer, sans fins, of course. 

 

This build will be down the tracks a little as I have at least four ahead of it. I am keen to do it, though - probably alongside my B-57E. I had planned to use my S&M kit for this by grafting on an Italeri cockpit section from a B-57B. Therefore I woyld use my High Planes RB-57A for this weather ship. I have a few images of 52-1448, the target ship for this build. 

 

Eagerly awaiting your further thoughts....

 

Martin 

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15 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

Hi All, 

 

my head is thinking way ahead about future builds and one I want to build is a weather RB-57A, for which I have both a High Planes RB-57A and S&M Canberra in the pile. My question is about the air sampling pods, like this:

 

I am considering the modification of something like a F-105 wing tank. Would that work? Does anyone out there have dimensions or drawings of these?

I think that's an ALE-2 chaff pod. Here's the information that I collected for my 'TAC Firebees' webpage, that also has some photos:

 

The ALE-2 pod is listed as being manufactured by Ryan, Webcor and MB Associates. It was used on the USAF F-4D/E, F-84, F-86, F-100, F-102, B-66, RB-57, T-33, AQM-34G/H/M/V, US Navy EA-1F and Canadian "EF-101B" and CT-133. At the front of the pod is an air inlet that splits into two tubes. The air travels down the pod and opens up packets of chaff. At the rear the air plus chaff streams combine again and exit the pod through a fairly large notch in the rear cone-shaped part of the pod. Pod length is 13' 10.2" (4221 mm), diameter 19.58" (497 mm), empty weight 217lb (98 kg) and full weight 470lb (213 kg).

 

The shape reminds me of the F-84F outboard tank, and the F-102.

 

Rob

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Yes, Rob, I agree. Inalso agree that a F-84Fvouter pod is about the same :)

 

thanks, Martin

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These air sampling pods were used on a number of T-33, QF-80, F-84G and B-57 used on various nuke tests from around Upshot-Knothole (1953) onwards. They appear to have been based on the Sargent Fletcher T-33 tip tank, mounted on the tip centreline of Thunderjets (with small fin) and underslung (without fin) elsewhere. You might be able to scale them from this shot (Teapot shots 1955)

 

x

 

Also seen here. I suspect they developed a better method for removing 'hot' samples than 'man with stick':

 

z

 

QF-80 installation here:

 

y

 

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21 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

Hi John @canberra kid,

 

Thanks a lot for your thoughts. I'd discount the napalm tanks. The shape isn't right, particularly at the tail end. Sorry, Mike! @72modeler. I still think a Thud-type tank is closer, sans fins, of course. 

 

This build will be down the tracks a little as I have at least four ahead of it. I am keen to do it, though - probably alongside my B-57E. I had planned to use my S&M kit for this by grafting on an Italeri cockpit section from a B-57B. Therefore I woyld use my High Planes RB-57A for this weather ship. I have a few images of 52-1448, the target ship for this build. 

 

Eagerly awaiting your further thoughts....

 

Martin 

HI Martin

I agree the Napalm tank doesn't really fit the bill, I await the reply from my request to an higher authority. In the meantime I've attached some photos of the pods which may help.

Bi7AY5.jpg

Bi7uhD.jpg

Bi7OGP.jpg

Bi7hgM.jpg

John   

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Following taken from 'History of Air Force Atomic Cloud Sampling' (AFSC Historical Series, 61-142-1 of 1963): note the mention of T-33 tanks for the Buster-Jangle nuclear test of 1951 (first text - AFOAT = Air Force Office - Atomic Testing): 

 

Buster Jangle 1951

 

...and then the reference to [Sargent] Fletcher (see ref in my post above) in this Hardtack (1958) nuclear test reference about B-57 sampling pods (LASL = Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory).

 

Hardtack 1958

 

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2 hours ago, canberra kid said:

HI Martin

I agree the Napalm tank doesn't really fit the bill, I await the reply from my request to an higher authority. In the meantime I've attached some photos of the pods which may help.

Bi7AY5.jpg

Bi7uhD.jpg

Bi7OGP.jpg

Bi7hgM.jpg

John   

Excellent, John @canberra kid. Thank you. I reckon this, and SJ's posts, clear this up. However, you middle shot cleArly shows a variation of it, unless it is just the angle of the shot. I will plug away at research on this while getting my Thud, Voodoos, and Starfighter done. I also have a fury to start! @Sabrejet

 

Martin

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2 hours ago, Sabrejet said:

Following taken from 'History of Air Force Atomic Cloud Sampling' (AFSC Historical Series, 61-142-1 of 1963): note the mention of T-33 tanks for the Buster-Jangle nuclear test of 1951 (first text - AFOAT = Air Force Office - Atomic Testing): 

 

Buster Jangle 1951

 

...and then the reference to [Sargent] Fletcher (see ref in my post above) in this Hardtack (1958) nuclear test reference about B-57 sampling pods (LASL = Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory).

 

Hardtack 1958

 

 

Thank you, SJ. @Sabrejet Much appreciated :)...

 

I WILL make a start on a Fury soon, I promise :)

 

Martin

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I guess these air sampling pods on Vulcans were inspired by the LASL ones? I read on one site they were converted fuel tanks from the Sea Vixen.

 

NoLIHhx.jpg

 

8WUSpar.jpg

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5 hours ago, Creepy Pete said:

I guess these air sampling pods on Vulcans were inspired by the LASL ones? I read on one site they were converted fuel tanks from the Sea Vixen.

Nice model! Now those (or is is the paint playing tricks?) look like Hunter underwing tanks!

 

Did someone say Fury? @RidgeRunner

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On the outside of the Vulcan sampling pod on the left wing, I've seen a small cylindrical pod with a tube like sensor out the front end, attached to the bottom of the wing. Reminds me of the 1D or 2D particle scanners that we had on MC-130E 571 when it based at Wright-Patt but flew missions for the AFGL at Hanscom AFB.

The mid wing sampling pods as used on RB/WB-57Fs were known as LASL tanks.

The RB-57As in the first photograph were with the 6021 RS out of Johnson AB until transferred to the 6091st RS out of Yokota AB. In 1962, AWS was made the sole manager of nuclear sampling, but certain programs remained outside of their domain. I believe that those RB-57As may not have been transferred to the 56th WRS at Yokota post 1962 although they clearly had a sampling mission. 

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Hi Gmat. Very interesting. Thanks. 52-1448 - my subject - flew with the 56th at Yokota with the pods.

 

Martin

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RidgeRunner, I wonder where you might have gotten confirmation on that information. 

 

Information on RB-57s in the Far East is difficult to track down.

 

Your photo is one that I uploaded in my PhotoBucket account. I have that photo given to me from one of my Japanese friends. 

 

Take care.

Grant

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That is correct, Grant. There is another website that details her service history. I will dig it out.  

Martin

 

PS: 

 

21448

http://www.forgottenjets.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/B-57.html

 

Martin

 

Edited by RidgeRunner

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Absolutely, John, but the pods are a challenge. i reckon using some F-84F outer tanks, cutting the forward portion and shaping on the lathe. ;) A challenge, eh?

 

Martin

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This was my initial inspiration, John:

 

image

 

image

 

 

Martin

 

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RidgeRunner, when I was at the 53rd WRS, I asked the AWS Historian for information on the WC-130, WB-50, WB-47 and WB-57F. Some of the information provided was incomplete. When I showed a picture of the RB-57A in weather markings, some AWS old hats expressed surprise that it belonged to the 56th WRS. This in the late 70s. 

In 1962, there were a number of B-57s assigned to various WRS but the model and SNs were unlisted. It's been many years since I've thought about it, by my memory was that they weren't assigned to the 56th WRS. 

 

If you want to track down a very unusual air sampler, I was told that the YC-121F with the turboprops, while assigned to the Sacramento ALC at McClellan AFB was outfitted for air sampling. If I had to guess, it might be two foils under the fuselage behind the nose wheel like the C-54 and C-118.  Never saw any pictures.

 

Grant

 

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5 hours ago, RidgeRunner said:

That is correct, Grant. There is another website that details her service history. I will dig it out.  

Martin

 

PS: 

 

21448

http://www.forgottenjets.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/B-57.html

 

Martin

 

 

Grant, 

 

Robert C. mikesh's book also shows 52-1448 as being with the 56th WRS sometime between 1961 and 1966.

 

Martin

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