MiG-15 (Lim-1), Eduard 1/72

[opus999]

On 2/10/2019 at 4:16 AM, clive_t said:

Just a suggestion!

An excellent suggestion! I am going to try that.

 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 7:27 AM, Andrés S. said:

I have built the same kit and I have not had this problem. Could it be for cut remains of the staple?

 

11 hours ago, Steve Collins said:

Maybe it's just an artifact of the photo, but is there something (sprue tag, mismold?) attached to the fuselage piece forward where the angles are? 

 

I don't think I have any extra plastic bits interfering with the fit, but I'm going by memory.  I will go down and check tonight.  Hopefully that is it!

[Sturmovik]

It must be a remaining sprue gate. I'm building Eduard's 109, and the oil cooler didn't fit properly. Turns out, one of the pieces had a sliver of sprue attached to it.

[opus999]

Well I inspected the whole area with a magnifying glass and found nothing that would interfere with the fit. I tried @clive_t's idea and used my water color to find any area of interference.  I found one side of the front wheel well was interfering so I filed it down. I got the fit as good as it was going to get, glued a pinewood derby car weight in there and glued that panel on. It looks bad. Primarily because there is a gap where the two halves of the fuselage and the back of this panel meet.  It's almost as if the casting was bad -- like there wasn't quite enough plastic to get all the way to the edge of the piece.  When my camera is charged, I'll post some pictures.

 

The front looks bad too as the newly glued panel sticks out a half millimeter. So I have a choice to leave it, or sand it down and remove all the fine detail.

 

I also need to work on the bottom seam between the fuselage halves -- there is some overlap there that doesn't look good. I noticed that the engraved detail kind of fades out the closer you get to the seam, which is a real bummer because with the sanding I need to do, it will be gone for sure by the time I'm done.

 

I dry-fitted the splitter and nose ring on the front, and the fit was bad on that as well. There is a sizeable gap between the front of the aircraft and the ring, which means I will need to file the splitter down to get it to fit.

 

All of this wrangling split the seam forward of the cockpit, so I glued that and will need to sand it down again.

 

I read some other people's builds of this kit and someone said that because of the tight engineering, the tolerance stackup that can result from a minor error early in the kit can make large mis-alignments toward the end of the build.  Maybe that's what's going on. I tried dry-fitting everything several times before gluing and then was very careful that everything look like it was aligned right when I glued. But everything fits so badly right now that I can't imagine that I screwed it up that much!

 

Given that everyone else seems to have had a great experience with this kit, could it be I got a bum casting?

[opus999]

Fixed the seam in front of the cockpit and worked on the fit of the nose intake ring and splitter. Not crazy with how the nose looks, but its better. I went to dry fit the wings and there is a gap that is much larger than I'd expect. So I decided to search for "Eduard MiG-15" in Ready for Inspection to see what others looked like. Several high quality close up photos of well-done Eduard MiG-15s showed the same seam between the wings and fuselage, the same 1/2 millimeter overlap on the bottom panel and (on some) the same sized seam where the bottom gun panel meets the fuselage. So, apparently I am on par with some of the best Eduard MiG-15 builds I've seen.  That makes me feel better, but it also makes me wonder if those folks had the same difficulties I did in putting it together?

[charlie_c67]

I’d think so, will dig out my shelf bunny and see if I have it too...

[opus999]

So here are some pictures of what I've been complaining about. Now that I've studied close up photos of the same model built by people that are much, much better at this than I, I found the same gaps and overlaps, so I am not going to anything about it. (Although, if I wanted to do something about it, I'm not sure what that would be).

 

 

 

 

 

I am disappointed, but maybe I'm too picky.

 

Anyway, I think I'll be at the painting stage today and leave this assembly unpleasantness behind me! When I started my Ji-2, I'd planned to do this same scheme, but abandoned it when I felt the surface prep wasn't good enough for NMF.  I was able to get a "test run" for the NMF because the bottom was unpainted. Preparing for painting that build, I examined a lot of photos in an attempt to get the metal patterns and color right. So I'll repeat a little bit of my Ji-2 WIP here:

 

I've read in a few places (a good example is at this forum thread) that Eastern bloc NMF aircraft could not be polished to the same luster as US aircraft.  In addition, they were painted with a silver paint when repaired.  The vintage pictures I've seen seem to confirm this.

 

So... what colors to use? First, let me show some examples (all from wikimedia).  These first two are the best vintage pictures I've found.  They show which panels were dull and which were (sort of) polished These will probably be my best resource:

 

 

 

The next one, while recent, seems to have the same general appearance:

 

 

These next two seem to be pretty close to their original appearance:

 

 

 

Finally, this one has been stripped down and polished but provides some more good evidence: 

 

 

So based on these pictures (plus many more I didn't post), I came up with a schematic that I will put at the end of this post. I used that schematic, and changed a paint color because of trial and error, and was able to get a finish I was very pleased with, and I felt was reasonably accurate, on the bottom of the Ji-2 (note that in the final product, I had dusted the AS-12 bare metal with dull aluminum because the contrast between the AS-12 and the TS-30 Silver leaf base coat was too subtle):

 

 

 

 

My plan is to use the same schematic, with the paint color changes I made on the Ji-2. The base coat of the Ji-2 was Tamiya Silver Leaf (decanted into an airbrush). I've since learned that a slightly more reflective surface will result if the Silver Leaf is sprayed on so that it looks wet on the surface. The Ji-2 was sprayed in fine mist coats and ended up looking dull, which was fine for the Ji-2, but I'd like the Lim-1 to appear a little more "Shiny" to match the vintage photos above.

 

Here is the updated schematic. Unfortunately, there are some panels that are seem to change colors between pictures!  These have question marks. Color is a bit of a guess too, but I've painted some test parts and I think the colors listed are fairly good matches to the pictures (Pardon the hand drawing).

 

 

That's the plan, although plans can change. I just got some Alclad Duraluminum, which I've never tried before. So I'll experiment with that and maybe it will get used too.

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by opus999

[AaCee26]

Hi all,

 

My memory is slowly getting back. When this kit was new was there discussion about some fit problems on nose which were expected to be fixed later? Mine is first profi-pack release of the basic MiG-15 with the Chinese one on the box top.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

[opus999]

21 minutes ago, AaCee26 said:

Hi all,

 

My memory is slowly getting back. When this kit was new was there discussion about some fit problems on nose which were expected to be fixed later? Mine is first profi-pack release of the basic MiG-15 with the Chinese one on the box top.

 

Cheers,

 

AaCee

In the reading I've done on the internet the last week, I saw similar comments about fit. So I guess it's not just me!

 

[opus999]

Yesterday morning, I was able to mask the airbrakes and the panel on the underside of the nose that I assume is protection against the hot gasses from the machine gun muzzles. These I painted with a base coat of Tamiya Spray Gloss black with just a drop or two of Levelling thinner mixed in. When that had dried, I painted Alclad stainless steel over it. I forgot to take pictures before I masked over them.

 

I had a busy day yesterday, so I wasn't able to get back to it until late last night.  I masked over the parts I'd painted stainless steel (masking the airbrakes was a real effort!) and over parts that I plan to paint with Testors Metallizer buffable aluminum, since that is supposed to be applied on bare plastic.  The areas that I plan to use the metallizer on are the ring around the nose intake, the panel in front of the cockpit that covers the radio equipment and the ring around the tail pipe.

 

Here it is all ready for a base coat of Tamiya TS-30 Silver Leaf:

 

 

 

Hopefully, I can get to it soon so the Silver leaf can cure a bit before I mask the individual panels later today.

[charlie_c67]

I meant to take and post pictures of mine from the Royal boxing for you but totally forgot! Really sorry about that. However, the problems you’ve shown don’t appear to be present on mine. That said, I did have trouble putting the two fuselage halves together so there is every possibility that I was a little more aggressive with my gluing and clamping than yourself. I will endeavour to take pictures on Friday when I return home from my dad’s.

[zigster]

I'm sorry to hear / see about those fit problems with this kit. It's too much hype re Eduard kits, but they not so sweet after all (look for yagabbor comments on MiG21).

Anyway, one of the reasons, why NMF a/c were painted (paint, dope or clear), was a residue of oxidated aluminium left on erks hands after servicing the a/c.

This is not a good thing for anybody's health. Good luck with the rest of Eddi's blunders :-))

Zig

[opus999]

I painted the base coat of Tamiya TS-30 Silver Leaf decanted into my airbrush on the MiG. I painted 2 or 3 wet coats on it to make sure that it was as shiny as I wanted. Then I let it sit for 2 or 3 hours.  I've found with the Silver Leaf that if I start masking right after I paint it on, the tape pulls of fine little silvery particles. It really doesn't affect the look of the paint on the model, but I still don't like it.  If I wait at least a couple of hours, I find that that doesn't happen.

 

I masked off some panels on the wings and one strip that goes all the way around the body starting at the aft part of the wings (see below).  Masking around the wing fences took a long time. :P I looked closely at my reference photos and compared them as well as I could with the samples of Alclad that I've made and decided to change my plan because White aluminum was best for these panels. In my reference photos, these panels look different but the difference is subtle. The differences may not be from different types of metal but from which way the "grain" of the metal is aligned. White Aluminum provides a very subtle contrast with the TS-30 Silver Leaf.  Duraluminum was too dark, and plain old Aluminum might have been too subtle. The rest of the alclad shade I have were much too different from the Silver Leaf to be believable.

 

 

 

 

My plan for today is to spray the dull aluminum section in the middle of the fuselage. The masking for that shouldn't take very long. Then, I want to do the Testors buffable aluminum in front of the canopy, on the intake ring and by the exhaust. If I have time, there are a couple panels on the wings and on the fuselage that need to be hit with the Silver leaf. After that, I need to re-paint the insides of the landing gear doors (I stripped the paint because I was unhappy with the wash), and do a new wash on them. Not sure I'm going to get to that today. Probably won't get to decals today either. But, I am getting close to the finish line on this one.

[opus999]

15 hours ago, zigster said:

I'm sorry to hear / see about those fit problems with this kit. It's too much hype re Eduard kits, but they not so sweet after all (look for yagabbor comments on MiG21).

Anyway, one of the reasons, why NMF a/c were painted (paint, dope or clear), was a residue of oxidated aluminium left on erks hands after servicing the a/c.

This is not a good thing for anybody's health. Good luck with the rest of Eddi's blunders :-))

Zig

Yeah, it was disappointing to say the least.  Maybe I was expecting too much. Still, I have to say their attention to detail is incredible -- it's worth the trouble just for that alone. Also, despite all my moaning and complaining about the nose, the rest of the model went together quite well.

 

I get the impression that some of the nose fit issues were fixed in later moldings.

 

I'm wrapping up a Eduard 1/72 Spitfire Mk. IXc (which I don't have a WIP for -- long story). That went together very easily and only really has one fit issue (the top engine cover) that isn't that noticeable at the right angles . I'm impressed with the engineering of these 2 models, however, part of the problem is that they may be over-engineered. If they relaxed their tolerances just a hair, it would make it easier on the modeler.

[opus999]

Masked and painted the Silver leaf, dull aluminum and Testors buffable aluminum plate.  Here is what it looks like with annotations showing which colors went where:

 

 

 

 

 

Here are the decals I got from ebay.  They are for a Lim-2, but the numbers and insignia look the same on a Lim-1. Red 1012 has a lightning bolt, which according to Squadron/signal publications is an award for crew excellence.  I found 2 different Lim-2's illustrated with this lightning bolt, but no Lim-1's, so I will leave it off.  Also, I am going to make it Red 01, which there were probably plenty of (and which I found a photo of, but with a different number style).

 

 

Got more than I thought I would done today, but that's probably it for this weekend.

[opus999]

Forgot to mention that I learned that Testors Metallizer doesn't adhere at all to CA.  I used CA as a filler on the panel in front of the canopy and the Metallizer wiped right off leaving a dark colored streak down the centerline.  Luckily it was dark colored so a quick shot of Alclad Polished aluminum and you can't even see it now!

[Kitchen Modeller]

Paint is going on nicely- I have a few nmf aircraft in the build queue so this is very interesting. The one eduard kit I’ve done didn’t give me too much grief but I totally agree that they over engineer their kits - so much room for error. But they are still very nice and make very nice models so the pain is worth it in the end... this will turn out very nicely I’m sure. 

[Will Vale]

Nice job on the painting, and sorry to hear you've had fit problems.

 

Are you aware that there are two versions of this kit? Eduard re-issued it (and replaced original sprues if you asked) to correct some kind of fit problem (I think) so it might be interesting to find out which one you have. I can't find the page on their site describing the differences anymore unfortunately.

 

I've built the not-corrected version since I got it cheap, and I remember the cockpit being a bit fiddly and needing some fettling, But the issues were smaller than the ones you've come across. There are some pics here if you're interested - I had a small step with the cannon insert and managed to get a gluey mark on it which I cleaned up later, the worst issues for me were a small gap at the wing roots, and that it was difficult to get the tailplane fitted neatly.
 

In your first pic of the cockpit assembly it looks like one of the sidewalls is slightly proud of the rear bulkhead top, that would mean it was sort of rotated from where it should be, which would make it wider as well as taller, maybe that was the root of the issue?

 

Hope the rest goes well, take care fitting the u/c! I found that very fiddly and the attachment points were rather vague.

 

Cheers,

 

Will

[opus999]

1 hour ago, Kitchen Modeller said:

Paint is going on nicely- I have a few nmf aircraft in the build queue so this is very interesting.

Thanks! NMF has become a bit of an obsession, recently. I've found that I can do "airshow shiny" and "Terribly worn and dull" really easily, but the "slightly-worn-but-still-a-little-shiny" look that you see on the vast majority of '50s US aircraft seems to totally elude me. Since I started fiddling with Tamiya's silver leaf and Bare Aluminum (I think that's what it's called...), I've gotten a lot closer!

 

1 hour ago, Kitchen Modeller said:

they are still very nice and make very nice models so the pain is worth it in the end

That's been my conclusion too. I've been floored with the detail I've found in both the MiG-15 and the Spitfire Mk. IX kits.

[opus999]

1 hour ago, Will Vale said:

Nice job on the painting,

Thanks! I'm really pleased so far...

 

1 hour ago, Will Vale said:

Are you aware that there are two versions of this kit?

I think I figured that after reading somewhere that they corrected some fit problems in the nose.

 

1 hour ago, Will Vale said:

In your first pic of the cockpit assembly it looks like one of the sidewalls is slightly proud of the rear bulkhead top

Yeah. I ended up tearing that apart because 1) I wasn't happy with my wash job and 2) there were several bits that didn't sit flush (and that was one of them).  When I assembled it the second time I made sure that all the gluing surfaces were clean down to plastic and I was extra careful to have everything aligned correctly.  I didn't take a picture of the assembly the 2nd time, but everything was flush and the fit of the fuselage halves was improved considerably. Even so, I had to apply a little pressure to get it to close up properly.

 

1 hour ago, Will Vale said:

There are some pics here if you're interested

Your build look fantastic, BTW. Nice job on the NMF!

 

1 hour ago, Will Vale said:

take care fitting the u/c!

Thanks for the warning!

 

[opus999]

Had some time and did a pin wash on the panel lines on the top of the aircraft tonight.  The wings went well, but on the body the lines weren't deep enough to take the wash easily. Last night I painted the insides of the landing gear doors after I stripped the old wash and paint off.  Tonight I gloss coated them with Tamiya X-22 and did a wash on those as well.  Still using the watercolor method.  Seems to work very well for me.

 

Sorry no pics.  not much to see and not much time tonight. Maybe decals tomorrow??

[Steve Collins]

Glad the wash is working for you.  My modeling time is usually limited and the whole process is much faster than oils.

 

Steve

[opus999]

Just ordered stencils (and a second set of the same Polish markings... ), so I probably won't finish this weekend. I can finish the wash though...

[opus999]

Terribly busy this week, but I was able to do some pinwashing and a few dirt and oil streaks.  The panel line pinwash came out a little darker than I would've liked, and I think the oil and dirt streaks may be a little too subtle. But here's what I've got so far. My decals should be here this week so I can put those on and do some touch up pin washes and another one will be in the books!

 

 

 

[Kitchen Modeller]

Looking good - I would have waited until the decals were on before starting weathering but I guess it's no harm to do a little at this stage. I like the oil stains on the wings. 

[Courageous]

2 hours ago, Kitchen Modeller said:

I would have waited until the decals were on before starting weathering

My thoughts too, makes sense that any weathering would effect them too.

 

Stuart