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sroubos

US Navy Sea Blue(s)

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Quote

ANA623 chip in The Official Monogram US Navy & Marine Corps Aircraft Color Guide Vol 2 1940-1949 by John M Elliot Maj. USMC (Ret).

 

Has all the colors described above apart from the FS 595, as actual paint chips. plus all the uses and regulations,  OOP and usually expensive used, 

 

Amazon has one for £30.61 and post, note how much the next copies are...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0914144324/?colid=TPT3EDGAPG63&coliid=I3QN0284CZ2L3S&ref_=lv_ov_lig_uan_ol

 

which is as good as price as you are likely to find.... (mine was 37.50.. and I thought that was good.) 

 

Just a heads up for anyone on here who wants to delve deeper into the subject...

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Just read an article(I keep forgetting to bookmark these little items as I always feel it will never come up later) that said WW2 paint manufacturers were allowed to deviate +/- 10% from the official colour. I haven't found anything in my books or on the web to back this up however. Has @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies ever heard of this?

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No idea, assume it means the colours didn't have to be bang on to be accepted. As I said I didn't bookmark it. I just posts 'em and let the experts go nuts

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Sure, but putting a number on it assumes some kind of scale, and I don't understand how that would work.

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Yes, what Graham said.

 

I've heard the exact same thing recently somewhere else but that too was second hand and I asked the exact same question.

 

I would expect there probably was some kind of tolerance but I'd be surprised if anyone put a number on it because getting numbers in those days required a series of laboratory measurements and a relatively extended set of hand calculations.

 

That then still leaves the fundamental question of "10% of what?". Colours have several attributes which can be quantified. 10% on some makes little difference whilst 10% on others is quite a big deal.

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On 1/21/2019 at 9:26 PM, Troy Smith said:

Hi Pat

No, Maybe you missed the quote from @Dana Bell  which goes with the diagram

 

I merely stand on the shoulder of giants on this one,  ( I got one of Dana's books when I was 16, which was erm,  over 35 years ago, and it was one of the first real reference books I got and I learnt an awful lot from it, and it taught me the value of a well selected image) but the more often this information gets flagged up, the more the correct information is used, creating a positive feedback.   the old LEMB site had a motto "I learn, you learn, we all learn" 

 

 

This reminded me, that previously I'd found online some decent shots, this is a good one

 

Grumman-F6F-3-Hellcat-Time-Life-color-ph

not super clear, but if you look closely you can see the glossy paint on the main part of the wing and the matter finish of the leading edge.

looking at the site  I linked this from

https://www.asisbiz.com/il2/Hellcat/F6F-3.html

note the star reflection on the wing, and the lack of shine on the leading edge

Grumman-F6F-3-Hellcat-Air-Group-32-White

 

HTH

T

I can never tell the difference between the GSB and the non specular SB in photos (I put it down to being a Celtic supporter and therefore having a natural aversion to any form of blue). In the top picture I really can't see any difference other than the white, the intermediate blue and the Sea blue (and the Insignia blue of the markings). In the second picture I can see the gloss on the wing and can see lots of fading on the engine cowl and an area on the fuselage above the star and bar that looks either faded or a slightly different colour (insignia Blue?). 

Did the gloss SB (on wartime aircraft like above) lose it's gloss as it faded? Jamie must be sick of trying to explain this colour scheme to me!

 

Duncan B

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Yes, GSB did lose some of its gloss but non-specular Sea Blue wasn't quite the same hue as GSB so there would still appear to be some difference remaining.

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9 hours ago, Duncan B said:

I can never tell the difference between the GSB and the non specular SB in photos (I put it down to being a Celtic supporter and therefore having a natural aversion to any form of blue). In the top picture I really can't see any difference other than the white, the intermediate blue and the Sea blue (and the Insignia blue of the markings). In the second picture I can see the gloss on the wing and can see lots of fading on the engine cowl and an area on the fuselage above the star and bar that looks either faded or a slightly different colour (insignia Blue?). 

Did the gloss SB (on wartime aircraft like above) lose it's gloss as it faded? Jamie must be sick of trying to explain this colour scheme to me!

 

Duncan B

 

OK, the 'tri' color scheme,  does not have Gloss Sea Blue, ANA623.  This is the replacement, and is another color

Quote

 

The scheme is actually four colors - white, Intermediate Blue, ANA606 semi gloss Sea Blue (atop the wings and horizontal tail), and ANA607 Non-Specular Sea Blue (atop the fuselage and on leading edges of the wings and stabs). The last two colors differ in more than the gloss factor - non-spec is distinctly grayer and lighter than the semi-gloss. I generally refer to the scheme as 4-color to clarify the differences.

There was a later version where all of the paints were glossy - it wasn't seen often, but it certainly was a three-color scheme.

Cheers,

Dana

 

I have added emphasis and the ANA codes to the quote

tbf_profile01.jpg&key=1bfd1ca759213d110b

 

I have not seen a wartime color pic which would show the difference between ANA606 and ANA607,  they are close, the difference @Dana Bellrefers to is if you have have unfaded colors side by side,  as in the color chips in book mentioned.  and the different reflectivity is also a factor.in wartime photos.

The photos were posted as they showed the difference in sheen, which is pretty much what will be visible in wartime shot if you are lucky.

 

HTH

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Posted (edited)

Couple of colour shots showing the semi-gloss and non-specular dark sea blue on fairly new machines. As other posters have pointed out the colours are actually different in both colour and sheen. FWIW the Sovereign Colorcoats paint look like there were cut off the chips in the Monogram book. Splendid matches. I used them for my 1/48 F6F (cowl is still in gloss coat  😉  )

spacer.pngspacer.pngspacer.png

Edited by pat d

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17 hours ago, pat d said:

Couple of colour shots showing the semi-gloss and non-specular dark sea blue on fairly new machines.

the Helldiver shot is excellent, and shows the difference beautifully, thanks! 

 

@Duncan B, have a look at the helldiver above, to see the difference between ANA606 and ANA607.

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12 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

the Helldiver shot is excellent, and shows the difference beautifully, thanks! 

 

@Duncan B, have a look at the helldiver above, to see the difference between ANA606 and ANA607.

Yes, I can see it on the Helldiver. Thanks to Pat for finding a photo that actually shows the difference that I had previously failed to see in any others and to Troy for clarifying the above. I still don't see it on the Hellcat though due to the leading edge being in shadow but it does show just how glossy the ANA606 was.

 

Nice looking Hellcat build @pat d and I can add my positive thoughts on the Colourcoats US Navy colours as they are what rekindled my interest in US Navy subjects having tried some out and instantly been impressed by them on my Hellcat build last year.

 

Duncan B

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Posted (edited)

I just saw I never posted the final result.

 

spacer.png

 

And as part of my USN collection.

 

spacer.png

Edited by sroubos

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