A Meteor F.3. Mostly Tamiya

[SleeperService]

Greetings All

 

I have resolved to actually finish at least one GB this year, on time. This could be the one! My entry is a Meteor F.4 using the Tamiya kit and a resin manufacturer (who I won't mention) supplied wing set.

 

The resin appears to be a rip-off hence no names but it quite reasonable. I intend to build a full-span F.4 in 92Sqn service, they didn't last long before it was discovered the extra power was a bit much for the wings. 😮 The two fuselage halves are assembled but nothing else has been done on this except for painting the wheels.

Photo bombing in is a long stalled Sea Meteor conversion which I'll finish at the same time but try to keep out of the photos. I should finish it as I got a lot of help HERE and then started building it HERE. Better late than never....  

 

[Col.]

Welcome to the GB with a cool project This one serves well to illustrate some of the difficulties found with those 'new-fangled' jet engines which were starting to gain popularity during this era. If that Sea Meteor accidently happens to regularly feature in the background of your thread as it progresses I'm sure we won't complain

[SleeperService]

Thanks Col

Made a start on this by enlarging the cockpit opening to a more appropriate size. Then an issue became apparent....

 

 

From Tamiya as supplied, my first pass at correction and then the Alleycat Airfix F.8 conversion. Despite appearances they are all within a millimetre of each other in height from the camera. So I measured my F.8 fuselage and that seemed right, odd. Then I went into the search topics and found mention about the span being a couple off mm or so short but the length being spot on. I believe that the fuselage upto the wing trailing edge is OK but then the taper finishes too soon. The fuselage should only be parallel for the first two top panels behind the cockpit then taper in. The kit runs parallel to the back edge of the airbrakes.  Then I found this in the Aerofax book for discussion purposes only

 

 

And Tamiya

 

 

I believe the upper air brakes extend too close to the fuselage so Tamiya narrowed the fuselage by stopping the fuselage taper short. The Tamiya front fuselage is about 1.5mm narrower than the Airfix which matches up with the observation in the old BM post (which I've lost track of now....)

 

What to do? I think I'll sleep on it. I WILL finish at least one GB on time!  

 

EDIT: After a good sleep I've reviewed this post and realised I'd not written what I intended. The taper should actually be constant to the rear of the fuel tank hatch, then reduce to the bulkhead ahead of the fuel tanks. The SAM guide has airframe section drawings which seem to agree with my findings and the wing span error is mentioned in the kit review section. Having got my engineering brain mate on the job the error seems to be the outer wing panels are 1.25mm short each side measured along the mating face. I've got pretty serious OCD but that's a place I'm not going! 

[Col.]

Reads as if there'd be some serious structural work required to correct that mess for very little gain.

[SleeperService]

You're absolutely right @Col.

 

I think I'm right about the upper airbrakes being too wide which is easily remedied. There's also something amiss with the wing/fuselage fairing on the trailing edge. I know the Cosford example is F.3  wings fitted to an F.9/40 fuselage DG202, but looking at lots of pictures online has me wondering that the production Mk.III were rather different in shape and detail to the prototypes. Widening the fuselage is also relatively easy because of Tamiya's parts breakdown. I'm not messing around with the wings though.

 

Be quiet for a couple of days here now. I've sliced my finger getting the wings off the Sea Meteor as the glue had failed (Humbrol Liquid Poly for the last time). A bottle of MEK is on the way as I'm very low. Then I'm good to go.       

[Col.]

Sorry to hear about you finger @SleeperServicebut modelling shouldn't be an extreme sport you know! MEK has been my first choice of glue for a long time now so understand what you mean although I'm also running low and need to find a retailer on-line willing to send me some as the only model shop within 150 miles of me no longer stocks it.

[JOCKNEY]

Right come on Nick, enough of this defeatist talk, it's time to show this Meteor who's boss. 

 

Look forward to seeing the next instalment 

 

cheers Pat

[Colin W]

Methyl ethyl ketone ( MEK ) is actually an industrial solvent and widely available in the chemical supply. A common use is in commercial ink jet machines for application of BBE codes etc.

Its easy to find if you can get a small amount.

Colin 

[SleeperService]

On 1/24/2019 at 6:44 PM, Col. said:

Sorry to hear about you finger @SleeperServicebut modelling shouldn't be an extreme sport you know! MEK has been my first choice of glue for a long time now so understand what you mean although I'm also running low and need to find a retailer on-line willing to send me some as the only model shop within 150 miles of me no longer stocks it.

My sport of choice is Extreme Sneezing as popularised in Sir Terry Pratchett's marvellous books   Being a good lad I was cutting away from myself, dropped the knife and automatically caught it. After a few seconds pain and blood 😮 

On 1/24/2019 at 7:06 PM, JOCKNEY said:

Right come on Nick, enough of this defeatist talk, it's time to show this Meteor who's boss. 

 

Look forward to seeing the next instalment 

 

cheers Pat

Styrene strip is my friend Pat so now I have two friends A piece of 1.5mm 2.5mm wide strip on the bit hidden by the cockpit insert and braced according to I.K.Brunel's specifications seems to have solved the main problem. When it's solid I've the wheel well to deal with and the cockpit insert, but my engineering mate has come up with a smart idea...We shall see.

23 hours ago, Colin W said:

Methyl ethyl ketone ( MEK ) is actually an industrial solvent and widely available in the chemical supply. A common use is in commercial ink jet machines for application of BBE codes etc.

Its easy to find if you can get a small amount.

Colin 

Thanks Colin that's exactly the route I took, Col if there isn't a supplier within easy reach then mine came by ParcelForce, according to the supplier they have no issues with it once PF approved the container and PF's requirements are less than the legal limit. 

[Col.]

3 hours ago, SleeperService said:

My sport of choice is Extreme Sneezing as popularised in Sir Terry Pratchett's marvellous books   Being a good lad I was cutting away from myself, dropped the knife and automatically caught it. After a few seconds pain and blood 😮 

I pulled a similar stunt with an angle-grinder once. Never did it again. The lessons we learn the hard way are usually the ones we learn best.

 

3 hours ago, SleeperService said:

Styrene strip is my friend Pat so now I have two friends A piece of 1.5mm wide strip on the bit hidden by the cockpit insert and braced according to I.K.Brunel's specifications seems to have solved the main problem. When it's solid I've the wheel well to deal with and the cockpit insert, but my engineering mate has come up with a smart idea...We shall see.

I hope you counted out the correct number of rivets?

 

3 hours ago, SleeperService said:

Thanks Colin that's exactly the route I took, Col if there isn't a supplier within easy reach then mine came by ParcelForce, according to the supplier they have no issues with it once PF approved the container and PF's requirements are less than the legal limit. 

Have found the 'manufacturer's' website and can buy 12 bottles direct which, at the speed I model, constitutes a lifetime supply along with a range of cool looking applicators so this could get expensive  

[SleeperService]

14 hours ago, Col. said:

I pulled a similar stunt with an angle-grinder once. Never did it again. The lessons we learn the hard way are usually the ones we learn best.

 

I hope you counted out the correct number of rivets?

Completely agree about the first bit.

 

Rivets? Don't you start as well. Andy the engineer was making similar comments ...

In other news I've used the last of my MEK to glue the styrene strips in place to fill the gaps. Once solid sand 'em down and jobbed. Took all of an hour start to finish, I now have room for a cockpit that pilot C.Rab can occupy without needing an arm amputating at the shoulder. It looks as though widening the wings at the centre by 1.25mm will have the double benefit of making the fit a lot better and correcting most of the short span issue. I'm testing this on the Sea Meteor fuselage/wing first then I'll turn to the GB model. However I can build the cockpit and detail stuff off this and transfer to the F.4 when done.

 

As I have a Panzer IV STGB model that's suffered similar issues I'll be back in a few days.  

[Col.]

 

Sounds as if you've got these two tamed down grand. A couple days to let everything set-up firm will help during any future manipulations. Am I correct in thinking you've taken the wings back off your Sea Meteor to test out the improvements?

[SleeperService]

11 hours ago, Col. said:

 

Sounds as if you've got these two tamed down grand. A couple days to let everything set-up firm will help during any future manipulations. Am I correct in thinking you've taken the wings back off your Sea Meteor to test out the improvements?

You are quite correct Sir. Also need to refix the wheel wells to the lower wing as the liquid poly wasn't up to the job. Evergreen strip has made the modifications quite straight-forward. It'll still need a bit of filler but not much. MEK should arrive Monday so I'll be good to go.

 

The more I've dug through my library the more convinced I am becoming that the airframe that the airframe captioned as F.4 in the Aerofax book is actually an F.3 that has been through overhaul and emerged with long nacelles and the ventral tank. The only thing that seems certain is that the photo was taken at Acklington. I love a mystery.    

[SleeperService]

Not much model-making as my finger is slowly healing but I have been researching both the F.3/F.4 differences and found stuff to get the Sea Meteor going again. Added to this very useful THREAD.

 

So, my Meteor F.4 project is actually evolving (de-evolving?) into a modified F.3. It will still be 92 Sqn though. It'll also be slightly shiney camo rather than silver. At least the glue and filler for work already done will be good and solid

 

 

[Col.]

Sounds as if your time away from the workbench is resulting in worthwhile research results  

[SleeperService]

9 hours ago, Col. said:

Sounds as if your time away from the workbench is resulting in worthwhile research results  

I'm having to keep occupied somehow Medical Centre later to see how it's healing.

[SleeperService]

Well not much to show for the last month but in other news. My right hand is back except for the index finger. SleeperDad is in hospital with an infected toe to be removed shortly so we siblings are getting his social housing sorted out, which means trips darn sarf, and plenty of time waiting for builders etc.

 

I'm confident I've now got the nacelle issues sorted out and Andy the Engineer has milled out the undercarriage bays so I'll be getting on with the structural stuff while the builders sort out SleeperDad's cold bridging issue and the nasty black mould resulting  I'll be posting proof of progress later in the week.

 

TOP TIP: The Tamiya weight is barely adequate and the resin engines won't help matters. Get as much weight in as you can. The front of the nacelles offer an opportunity.

 

In other developments my resin conversion is a recast of Mirage Resin Models 48004 Gloster Meteor F.4 conversion. After a report to eBay the seller has now been removed as it seems several other of 'his' offerings were also recasts. 

[SleeperService]

Well that was a busy few days 😮 but things are afoot at SleeperDad's place and he's being looked after very well by a multi-national team of superb nursing and support staff.

 

I took the opportunity to mess up his workshop and make use of his technical library as I'd forgotten some stuff that would be useful. So, without further ado here is where we are right now:

 

 

 

Stage One of work by a very nervous SleeperService. The piece behind the cockpit is widened by 1.25mm after the lower edge is cut in two places to leave the nosewheel bay where it belongs. A narrow piece was inserted just aft of the wing opening and a matching piece added to the top. This was left to set solid.

 

 

Step Two. Using lots of tapered strip and offcuts the gaps were all filled in. Clamped and left to set solid. Then the slots either side of the nose wheel bay were filled the same way ensuring everything stayed centred. Once solid the cockpit was separated and reattached 2.5mm further forward.

 

Now I took a deep breath and did a lot of reading while my finger healed, family emergency happened, and I gave the resin wing a good look over. Then

 

 

The Mirage Hobby (knock-off?) wing has main wheel bays that are very shallow. Some quick measurements showed that it would sit very nose down, not good. The bulges for the under carriage doors were sacrificed and the openings milled out by my mate and replaced by 1.0mm plasticard boxes firmly pinned in place. As the wings will be widened by 1.25mm I'd cut them to make life a bit easier.

 

I was about to post a request for information but after going through 50+ posts here on BM I found all the information I needed. Result and Thank You to all correspondents. The nacelles are for an F.4 so I needed to extend them at the rear 4mm to match the Tamiya tailpipe diameter for the smaller Derwent jet pipe. The front nacelle needs 3.25mm adding at the rear and 1mm at the front for EITHER version. I found some Maquett tubing  419-68/3 14 by 12mm diameter which is perfect for narrow inlets (and 419-69/3 16 by 14mm diameter for the big breathers). Cut to length the resin bit was opened out from the back to take it. I cut a pair of notches at the rear end for the wing spar to cross glued it all together and filled the spaces with milliputt and some lead shot.

 

 

After some calculations and checking it became apparent that the much longer resin nacelles would make it very difficult to avoid a tail sitter. So I cut off the rear cone and got to work with a drill and milling tool until the Tamiya part fitted nicely. Then I went at the nacelle taking as much out of the inside as I could. I now had 36 grammes of resin dust to clean up and understood why the undercarriage bays had been adapted. Tipping the model forward was likely the only way to get it to stand up right. There was a bit of collateral damage at the rear as the resin is very brittle but that's a minor issue that will be dealt with when I blend the intakes in.

 

Finally before you all go to sleep here are a couple of images to ponder

 

 

 

A Meteor F.3 in slightly glossy glory and

 

 

A Meteor F.4 in colour By God!! Note the difference at the rear of the nacelles. Quite a glossy paint finish and the canopy rails which need replacing. Note that the Meteor could be flown with the hood open which would be different. But that is one good looking aircraft.  

[Colin W]

I thought I had seen this before. Looking forward to seeing you complete these builds. You are certainly putting plenty of effort into them.

 

Colin 

 

[SleeperService]

13 hours ago, Colin W said:

I thought I had seen this before. Looking forward to seeing you complete these builds. You are certainly putting plenty of effort into them.

 

Colin 

 

Thanks Colin. Once I'd worked out what I needed to do the work was fairly straight-forward. I understand many will think I'm mad but the Tamiya Meteor next to the Airfix one just looks odd. There is now enough space for C. Rab the pilot to fit in AND reach the controls.

 

Important thing is I'm having a great time part detective, part engineer, part obsessive

 

[Col.]

That's some effort you're putting into this one but it's going to be worth it for the end result

[SleeperService]

Boy have I been having fun! Learning the dark art of curving plastic card to make the new cockpit top. Several attempts with hot water have been a bust and then I thought hard and thought hairdryer 💡 Although this innovative idea showed promise it didn't really do the job so thinking cap on and 🎺 hot air paint stripper. While it softened the plastic card beautifully if also melted the piece of plastic waste pipe I was using as a former (among other things). Drat...

 

Then life sent me a reward (but only after a fruitless search for metal tube the right diameter). Decided to vent my frustration on the dust and cat hair so fired up my trusty Dyson which wasn't it's usually black hole cleaning efficiency, the flexible hose had split, then I looked at the wand part in my right hand. Angel's started singing it was exactly the diameter I need Cleaning instantly forgotten I returned to the bench to realise I'd destroyed all my thick plasticard, and most of the clever stuff too. So I am currently waiting for Post Person Pat to deliver supplies. I've given up on progress shots of the cockpit. It's mostly black, there are tiny bits of colour but my camera only wants to see the black.

[Col.]

Sounds as if you're making scientific progress there which will be followed shortly by successful physical progress so all good  

Edited March 27, 2019 by Col.

[SleeperService]

Boo! I'll bet you all thought I'd given up and gone home with the football, but no I'm still here.

 

Why the delay? I hear... Well to be honest this project started driving me mad as I couldn't reconcile the cockpit position, cockpit interior and the model. After a week of frustration I threw it all in a box and applied myself to the Patton STGB while I cleared my mind. So today I pulled it out looked at it, did some brain dead work on my Minenraumer and waited for the lightbulb to come on. It did! 💡

 

My cunning fuselage & wing surgery was fine but I hadn't thought it through to the end. Basically the kit starts tapering too far back and I hadn't dealt with it. So the cockpit roof was removed along with the nose underside. I also realised that the tail fin was askew so cut it off shimmed and refitted. It's only the second or third Tamiya kit I've seen with a warped part. My butchery hadn't helped but the part was certainly warped. 

Returning to the nose area I braced the front in line with the rear of the gun cover panels, squared off the kit sides and added a semi-circular chunk of card then some filler to blend it all in. A tapered piece on the nose top saw everything straight and lining up. Result!

 

I've also got the nacelles nice and smooth and filler for the bits I missed. I've got to fill a bit on the rear fuselage side where the warped area is but that's tomorrow after it's good and solid.

 

In other news the CMK Hurricane seats have arrived so I'm good to go. Next stage is modifying my already twice revised cockpit to remove the fudge I'd attempted earlier, then cut out the cockpit opening for the Squadron Vacform replacement canopy.

 

EEK! I've just noticed the state of the trailing edges, better do something about those before I forget....

[Col.]

Glad to see this project is still alive and well  A lot of time and effort so far but I'm thinking the worst is behind you now and the end result will be worthwhile.