What's the difference between early and late Hurricane I windscreens?

[Procopius]

I'm wondering if the excellent Arma canopy for their admirable Hurricane I can be converted to fit the Airfix Hurricane I with its goofy too-tall canopy, but I recall that the early Hurricane windscreen is different. I was hoping someone could tell me how different and if my brainstorm could work.

[rio]

The later hurricane had an armoured windscreen fitted so was a lot thicker.

 

Rio

[dogsbody]

Notice, if you will, that there is no horizontal frame between the flat windscreen section and the rear windscreen frame member on the early Hurricane.

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

 

[warhawk]

9 hours ago, dogsbody said:

Notice, if you will, that there is no horizontal frame between the flat windscreen section and the rear windscreen frame member on the early Hurricane.

Chris

 

IMHO, the front armoured plate on the early windscreen is also shorter, at least that's how it looks to me from the photos You have posted.

[Graham Boak]

There is no armoured plate on the early windscreen, which is probably why the later one is longer.

[Troy Smith]

On 16/01/2019 at 01:20, dogsbody said:

Notice, if you will, that there is no horizontal frame between the flat windscreen section and the rear windscreen frame member on the early Hurricane.

 

 

 

 

Chris

 

 

 

also note,  apart from the frame,  the early style has a curved lower edge, the later is straight hmmm

 

early, as seen on L1592 in the Science Museum, with external armour

 

the Hurricane in Fonland

P2617 at Hendon

 

Shuttleworth Sea Hurricane

 

there is an image I can't find showing the early screen without armour, i'll add it if i can find it, but the pic of 314 posted by Chris lack the armour

HTH

[Procopius]

Harrumph. Bad news.

[dogsbody]

I've got this one, showing the interior of the early windscreen without the bulletproof glass and reflector gunsight.

 

 

 

 

Chris

[GrzeM]

On 1/15/2019 at 11:41 PM, Procopius said:

I'm wondering if the excellent Arma canopy for their admirable Hurricane I can be converted to fit the Airfix Hurricane I with its goofy too-tall canopy, but I recall that the early Hurricane windscreen is different. I was hoping someone could tell me how different and if my brainstorm could work. 

Are you sure that you need the non-armoured windscreen? I think that at least some of the ragwing Hurries had the armour glass fitted.

[FZ6]

12 hours ago, dogsbody said:

I've got this one, showing the interior of the early windscreen without the bulletproof glass and reflector gunsight.

 

 

 

 

Chris

Thanks for sharing this pic Chris,

 

I was looking for a photo of how the ring sight was fitted in the cockpit and hadn't found anything. This picture shows it nicely.

 

I'd not noticed early windscreens had a curved edge so this this thread has been really useful.

 

6 minutes ago, GrzeM said:

Are you sure that you need the non-armoured windscreen? I think that at least some of the ragwing Hurries had the armour glass fitted.

Would I be right in thinking that an armoured glass could be fitted to an early windscreen with the curved lower edge?

 

Also was the armour fitted externally to the windscreen or could it vary like on the Spitfire where it it started off internally but then internal on later marks?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

[Graham Boak]

The photos of that Science Museum Hurricane shows the armour glass fitted to an early screen on what appears to be a fabric winged Hurricane.

 

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading, and a severe penance should be required from those using it?  Apart from the manufacturers of the best Irish linen, of course?

[warhawk]

15 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Now that we are discussing Hurricane windscreens, 

I have always found this flat plate at the bottom of the front windscreen glass (completely perpendicular to the airflow) of later Hurris rather ungainly, an affront to aerodynamics moreover.

Does anyone know why it was done in that way?

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, GrzeM said:

Are you sure that you need the non-armoured windscreen? I think that at least some of the ragwing Hurries had the armour glass fitted.

They did, see L1592 above, and here is L1591

date April 1940

 

1 hour ago, FZ6 said:

Thanks for sharing this pic Chris,

 

I was looking for a photo of how the ring sight was fitted in the cockpit and hadn't found anything. This picture shows it nicely.

 

I'd not noticed early windscreens had a curved edge so this this thread has been really useful.

 

Would I be right in thinking that an armoured glass could be fitted to an early windscreen with the curved lower edge?

 

Also was the armour fitted externally to the windscreen or could it vary like on the Spitfire where it it started off internally but then internal on later marks?

 

Thanks,

 

Mark

I have only seen external armour on the early screen,   and yes, it could have armour fitted.

 

and you see the later type screen early on as well

this is winter 39/40

and is most likely this plane earlier on

 

 

38 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

The photos of that Science Museum Hurricane shows the armour glass fitted to an early screen on what appears to be a fabric winged Hurricane.

L1592,  KW-M in the Airfix starter kit

from thsi great walkround http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/hurricane_mk1_l1592/

 

38 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

 

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading, and a severe penance should be required from those using it?  Apart from the manufacturers of the best Irish linen, of course?

You have a point.

If you, or anyone, has Hurricane at War 2,  in there is an anecdote from a pilot who was in France, and got the old fabric wing plane, and mentioned it was a lot lighter to fly.    

15 hours ago, Procopius said:

Harrumph. Bad news.

Maybe not,  the big problem with the Airifx hood is it is too tall,  as both the Arma and Airfix have separate windscreen,  I suspect that you could use the Arms hood section,  if you may well not notice the too high windscreen, or just carefully sand the bottom of the Airfix windscreen

 

What is really needed is an accurate (and cheap) vacform canopy set,  as a previous thread showed, the Rob Taurus set just replicates the Airfix canopy

see

 

 

vs

 

HTH

[gingerbob]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading...

 

As the owner of a "rag wing" Luscombe, I'm not bothered by it.  Typical irreverent "airplane type" [person] terminology, from my point of view.  Anyway, it isn't like we're talking trash about Spitfires 😉

 

[Work In Progress]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading, and a severe penance should be required from those using it?  Apart from the manufacturers of the best Irish linen, of course?

You are not alone by any means.  It is an ugly Americanism, and certainly not a phrase used in historic UK aviation circles today, or contemporary aviation circles in the pre-WW2 or WW2 eras.

(as I know you know!)

Edited January 18, 2019 by Work In Progress

[GrzeM]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading, and a severe penance should be required from those using it?

Not being the English native-speaker I sometimes can't feel the proper "flavour" of some terms. In Poland we use similar word "szmatopłat" (literaly "rag-wing") for the WWI and other early airplanes, and this term is used by the enthusiasts of this period, as a kind of positive, familiar word (like for the old loved airplane "old crate" etc.) I thought that the "rag wing" for Hurricane is similar. Never meant to degrade this beautiful airplane!

[dogsbody]

8 hours ago, Graham Boak said:

The photos of that Science Museum Hurricane shows the armour glass fitted to an early screen on what appears to be a fabric winged Hurricane.

 

Am I the only person thinking that the term "rag wing" is ugly and degrading, and a severe penance should be required from those using it?  Apart from the manufacturers of the best Irish linen, of course?

Henceforth, I will amend my terminology.

 

 

Chris

[Nocoolname]

Didn't the early windscreens have furry dice hanging from them?

[dogsbody]

30 minutes ago, Nocoolname said:

Didn't the early windscreens have furry dice hanging from them?

 

This one had a mirror.

 

 

 

 

 

Chris

[Nocoolname]

Ah, so it was the later models then. Gotcha!

[dogsbody]

While sitting at my work table, I just happen to spy the clear sprue from my Airfix fabric-wing Hurricane and remembered it has two windscreens, Part F1 and F2. I looked at the instruction sheet of the early Watts prop version I'm building and saw it call for F1 to be used. I then opened up one of the other kits I have which are both later DH propped versions. They say to use F2 windscreen. I looked more closely at my sprue and noticed a slight difference. Though it may be hard to see in the picture I took, but F2, the one on the right, has a slightly more raised edge around the front portion of the windscreen. Is this showing the fitting of an armoured glass panel?

 

 

 

Chris

[Troy Smith]

8 hours ago, dogsbody said:

but F2, the one on the right, has a slightly more raised edge around the front portion of the windscreen. Is this showing the fitting of an armoured glass panel?

yes.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

I dug out my Hurricane kits and accessories and gave them a cursory inspection. Falcon AM canopy is 0,8 mm lower than the one from Airfix and the horizontal frame bar seems to be positioned properly. However, the windshield is of later Marks type, but taper of armoured glass towards the top is too gradual. It is more or less the same with CMK canopy that comes with their Hurricane Mk.II upgrade set, although this one seems to be too small (possibly to fit Revell kit?). Cheers

Jure

[72modeler]

22 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello

I dug out my Hurricane kits and accessories and gave them a cursory inspection. Falcon AM canopy is 0,8 mm lower than the one from Airfix and the horizontal frame bar seems to be positioned properly. However, the windshield is of later Marks type, but taper of armoured glass towards the top is too gradual. It is more or less the same with CMK canopy that comes with their Hurricane Mk.II upgrade set, although this one seems to be too small (possibly to fit Revell kit?). Cheers

Jure

Anybody know if the Rob Taurus Hurricane canopies are correct?

Mike

[Troy Smith]

 

1 hour ago, 72modeler said:

Anybody know if the Rob Taurus Hurricane canopies are correct?

Mike

 

no, basically a copy of Airfix in vacform,  I posted details above,  halfway down this post...

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235049629-whats-the-difference-between-early-and-late-hurricane-i-windscreens/&do=findComment&comment=3248830