Are Hong Kong Models kits over-priced?

[spruecutter96]

The simple answer is.... Yes, they are, IMHO.

 

A case in point. Hobbyboss produce a 1/32nd B-24 Liberator for around £140 (and that's the initial, list-price - I bet it will be available cheaper in a year from now, if you know where to look).

 

What do you reckon the HK equivalent would cost? £300... £400? OK, I fully acknowledge that the HK kit would have a full-ish interior and probably a bit more accurate than the Hobbyboss kit, but would it be more than twice or three times as good? Somehow, I doubt it. For that kind of price, I would expect a lot more bang for my buck. How about including some resin or plastic crew-members, some ground-crew figures, a bomb tractor and trailer (with exploding stuff for it to carry), flight-line accessories, a brick off the chimney, etc, etc? 

 

HK Models are very well moulded and are in a scale that will probably not be produced by anyone else (with the exception of the Lanc, the Mozzie, that German push-pull thingy). I do appreciate that producing 1/32nd bombers can involve years of research and some EXTREMELY expensive moulds. I also recognize that producing any new kit has to involve a large degree of risk, if said kit doesn't sell well. 

 

The question is.... are HK kits really worth their list-price?

 

What does anyone else reckon?

 

Chris. 

 

PS: This is not a rant against people buying HK kits. Everyone's free to spend their hard-earned in any way they see fit. It is much more about the pricing-levels of the kits and if these levels are really jusified. It is NOT an attack on anyone who buys them.   

Edited January 15, 2019 by spruecutter96
Correcting a typo.

[3DStewart]

It's immaterial what you or I think.  If they are priced right they will sell and the company will prosper and if they're not they won't.

 

You've acknowledged they justify a higher price as they are better than Hobby Boss. Whether that premium is justified is entirely a matter of opinion.  Improvement in quality and increased cost is never linear.  If you double the quality of something it's quite normal to see a four-fold (or more) increase in price.

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by 3DStewart

[JohnT]

 

1 hour ago, 3DStewart said:

 If they are priced right they will sell and the company will prosper and if they're not they won't.

 

What Stewart says.  Its supply and demand and the general laws of economics.  If they are overpriced then HK Models will go out of business, if not then we might see that 1/32 F-4 FGR1/2 in due course.  I suspect a few folks in the UK modelling fraternity would pay a kings ransom for a 1/32 RAF/RN F-4.  

[Work In Progress]

The HK kits have a much higher parts count and that's one a significant driver of development and tooling cost. From what I've seen, the finesse and quality of the HK kits is significantly higher too - with the WNW Lanc being a similar leap ahead of the HK kit.   That's not to say I would sniff at the Hobby Boss B-24, if I wanted an enormous B-24. It looks like a good effort for the money. If their kit sells well, and they've priced it high enough to make a decent profit, we'll find out as they will probably have a go at other large types. There can be room in the market for all.

 

I don't mind at all there being a variety of offers at different competitive price points. We've always had kits available at different points of price and complexity and moulding finesse. It's highly comparable to the  recent Revell 1/32 P-51 and Spitfire IX versus the Tamiya ones. Those haven't killed sales of the Tamiya kits at all - some people want a quickish build, some people want to spend a lot longer creating a masterpiece. Which option you go for depends on what you want from a model.

 

Quite often I go for a relatively simple kit, like a Monogram 1/48 Me-262 or F-104 or A-4 rather than some more complex alternative., sometimes I want to go to town on something. In 1/48 I have stocks of both Monogram P-47D Razorbacks and Tamiya ones, and appreciate both kits, and both manufacturers,  just as much, for their different approaches.

[Don149]

Who actually sets the price , ? , importer , retailer or HK . We in Blighty pay more for them than some other countries , yet a

little cheaper than others . I bought two with 10% off on pre order from Hannants , if they had been £400 from the start ,I think

the order would have been just one , ( Thank goodness Eduard are bringing out the cockpit masks , next month ! ) .

[Dave Fleming]

2 hours ago, Don149 said:

Who actually sets the price , ? , importer , retailer or HK . We in Blighty pay more for them than some other countries , yet a

little cheaper than others . I bought two with 10% off on pre order from Hannants , if they had been £400 from the start ,I think

the order would have been just one , ( Thank goodness Eduard are bringing out the cockpit masks , next month ! ) .

 

Ultimately the retailer, although the Importer/wholesaler will set a recommended retail price. But each element will have their selling price and mark-up - so HK to Wholesaler/Importer then they sell to the retailer who sells to you. Each will have their mark up (and the taxman takes his 20% of that - your £400 for the kit, £80 goes to HMRC) - I sometimes wonder what the actual factory gate cost of a kit would be.

 

But ultimately, you pay what you think something is worth

[NAVY870]

I'd say yes, what I've seen of the Lancaster hasn't impressed me at all.

For a kit of that price tag and scale it strikes me as sadly lacking in detail.

[NPL]

It's like good wine. You pay extra for the quality. You can off course pay less and get an inferior wine. But quality costs. The saying is that you get what you pay for. 

 

And then in order to compare: You pay £ 100 or more for a Tamiya Spitfire in the same scale. Tamiya says quality, and you pay extra for it.

 

[gingerbob]

For me, yes.  I can't justify spending hundreds of dollars for one kit that'll sit in the pile with my other kits.  (Hundreds on the stash overall is a different matter, naturally...)

 

Besides, I haven't yet built my Monogram 1/48 B-24 that I paid 15-20 for- and that one's plenty big enough for me.

 

Now, if I were to win the lottery I'd probably indulge in, say, a 1/32 Catalina, but I still wouldn't start buying every ludicrously large kit available.

 

I don't resent a company for making a product that I'm not interested in, though perhaps I resent envy the people who can afford to buy them and stick them in their stashes! 

 

[Edit: to use a more appropriate word, and to point out that whether they get built or stuck in stashes isn't really significant.]

Edited January 18, 2019 by gingerbob

[Work In Progress]

Oh, I love people buying things and putting them in their stashes. if the only kits sold were those that got built within say 12 months, every manufacturer would be dead in short order. 

Plus, the stashes of the world provide future availability of kits long out of production. It's a valuable community service, running a stash.

[Nocoolname]

30 minutes ago, Work In Progress said:

Oh, I love people buying things and putting them in their stashes. if the only kits sold were those that got built within say 12 months, every manufacturer would be dead in short order. 

Plus, the stashes of the world provide future availability of kits long out of production. It's a valuable community service, running a stash.

The stash also provides excellent insulation in the cold spell ❄️

[Nearlymen]

I have to admit I too think HK models are somewhat overpriced for what they are. I like them, but wince at the price. I bought the do-335 (love that aircraft) and whilst it's a nice kit, it was expensive for what it was and to be honest I wish Revell Germany had done it, as their range of 1/32 kits were competitively priced and had excellent potential. Until recently you could pick up a Revell Germany 1/32 Ju-88 for under 40 pounds ! (Then they got greedy, put motors and lights in it and wanted silly money !). To be honest had Hobby Boss made a better job of the Libs wing profile, and sorted the turrets, it would have been the value for money kit of the year for everyone and  is to me it still is, alas those two sloppy errors makes it a target for the nay sayers. I can buy two liberators and still have money for aftermarket parts for the price of one HK lancaster,The problem is whether you consider yourself a modeller or a model assembler (and both approaches are fine so lets not argue that). If your a modeller and willing to chop and change things to suit then the Libs probably one of the best value for money kits of last year (this is where I stand), the HK Lancaster... well not so much. If though your more of an assembler and want things near as damn it perfect from the box so you can just get on and enjoy the build, then the Lancaster may well be worth it to you, for me though... not so much ! Yep! you've guessed it....'It's Horses for Courses' ! Of course if you can live with a little in-accuracy and you just want to build something 'BIG' then the Lib represents great value for money.

 

Notice something ? I didn't mention tooling, parts count and research costs ! I wouldn't be surprised to find that actually the costing process isn't that different between companies but actual costs comes down to where it was done, how it was done and time constraints. Tooling for these big kits will be approx the same, as they all have large size parts and and large parts counts. The CAD stage will be approx the same when it comes to detailing prior to cutting the moulds, it's the research  that makes or breaks it, spend huge amounts in Pre-production (this is where time constraints come in), then get the product late to market by which time your competitor releases another version and recouping the cost becomes difficult unless you increase the cost for lower production runs, or have cheaper large production runs. In the case of HK Models and Hobbyboss it would be interesting to know their individual production processes (we don't so we can only speculate). Then you've got where it was made for labour costs etc. this changes as the economic situation around the world changes. It would take a bit of digging to find out the stories behind HK and HB to get a better idea of where the costs come from. We don't have that so it all comes down to your individual........ 'Perceived Value'. And that only the individual can quantify !

 

Mind you..................

It will get interesting when WNW release their Lanc to see where they pitch the pricing, will it be as low as Hobby Boss (I very much doubt it) will it be considerably lower than HK models, a little number crunching maybe in order from WNW.? I think so.

My LMS has a HK lanc in the window and one on the shelf in the shop, people look at it admire it, but the price tag is 399.99 pounds, they sold pre orders, but how long it takes to shift the display ones is anybodies guess.

Finally I will just say what's in the HK models box is fine, it looks like a lanc, quacks like a lanc, it's lanc ! It's just the cost I have issues with. The Hobby boss Lib looks like a Lib(but with a slightly odd wing and turret), quacks like a Lib, it's a Lib but at a great price. Oh the dilemma, LOL !!

 

Oh well that's my two penneth worth !

 

Cheerio

 

Clive

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Nearlymen
Spelling !

[NPL]

6 hours ago, Nearlymen said:

...

 

Oh well that's my two penneth worth !

 

Cheerio

 

Clive

 

You know, somebody may buy them, or the producer will very soon be 'history'. 

 

The frustrating part is not the price but that we cannot afford it .This is frustration. I very rarely move into that: The only really expensive kits for me have been Tamiya's Phantom 1:32, and their Spitfire.

 

However, to pay £35 for their Spitfire Mk.I, that's heavy, when you also have to consider delivery price. But psychologically, it is within reach of many more.

 

But then we have to compare prices to other hobbies. What about golf?

[593jones]

12 hours ago, Nearlymen said:

It will get interesting when WNW release their Lanc to see where they pitch the pricing, will it be as low as Hobby Boss (I very much doubt it) will it be considerably lower than HK models, a little number crunching maybe in order from WNW.?

 

Re the price of the WnW Lancaster, their newletter in October had this to say:  Price is still to be confirmed, but we are doing what we can to keep it as low as possible and hope it will only be slightly more than 32801 Felixstowe F.2a & Hansa-Brandenburg W.29 "The Duellists".  Now this set is currently listed at $349 on the WnW website, which at current rates is £268.  If WnW can produce their 1/32 Lancaster for around that price there will be some very happy people around (including me!).

 

Back to Hong Kong Models, I do think they are overpriced and would not consider buying one, but that's just my opinion.  Something is only overpriced if you think it is.

[Nearlymen]

I totally agree with the 'Frustration' of these large expensive kits. I have a longing for ( hmmm actually it maybe lust ! ha ha !!) for the HPH 1/48 B-36, but the cost is astronomic, plus I'd have nowhere to put it alas it still doesn't stop the wanting....sigh !

 

That's interesting about WNW and their Lanc. If that turns out to be right, I think it will tempt people to go for it. Being second into the market with a product can have it's advantages. I wonder if WNW will make the production run the same size as their WW1 kits and go for the collectable/limited edition market or make the run larger and in effect raise the company profile even more ? It's a really interesting time for the large scale market.

 

Mind you though if Hobby Boss got it's act together and put out a large scale but dimensionally accurate model whilst keeping their pricing I can't help but think they'd clean up the market, but maybe that's just wishful thinking !

 

Cheerio

 

Clive

[NPL]

and then another aspect not yet part of this discussion: How much time will you spend on such a Lancaster, compared to, say again the new Tamiya Mk.1? Maybe if it is about modelling you get more from your money than from less expensive kits. 

 

But another illustration: A Tamiya Spitfire Mk.IX (1:32) costs £109 (Hannants), a Revell Mk.IX onlt £30. However, if you intend to bring your Revell kit up to the same standard as Tamiya using Eduard goodies, it will cost you another £50. OK, the difference is still £20.00, and then there is still a lot of things that are not included in the Revell version (the engine). So if the aim is to get the model together as fast as possible, a Revell without extras will do, but if you aim to present something that will be joy to look at for yourself and others, it will cost and take time. 

[Ed Russell]

In answer to the original question.......... I asked two of my friends.

One said "Yes, they are over-priced and not good value.".

The other said "No, they are good value for money."

Opinions are like................ you know.

[Nearlymen]

NPL said "Maybe if it is about modelling you get more from your money than from less expensive kits"

 

Yep you've hit the nail on the head there, and said it in a much more concise way than my verbal ramblings ! I think it's all down to your personal approach to creating the finished result. If you get enjoyment from chopping and changing things to make a model 'Your Own' then cheaper kits are going to be more attractive. If you don't like chopping and changing then the more expensive kits may tempt you more..............................Oh dear rambling again !! LOL !!

 

I think just I'll stick with what NPL said !

 

Cheerio

 

Clive

[tomprobert]

I think @NPL raises as excellent point. When buying these expensive kits, think of the £/per hour ratio. Yes, at £400 the Lanc is big buck, but how many hours will it take to build? If their B-17 is anything to go by, the cost per hour is actually very good value. I spent £75 on the Airfix 1/24th Tiffie, and it’s taken nearly 6 months to finish - at mere pennies per hour. Expensive kit, but great value. 

 

You could buy, say, 3 Revell 1/32nd Spits for the price one Tamiya. But I bet it’d take the same amount of time (if not longer) to knock the Tamiya kit together than it would to build all three Revell offerings... 

 

That’s how I justify it to my wife, anyway. 

[gingerbob]

By that reasoning, though, why not buy some balsa wood and scratchbuild your model?  Lots of hours, for very little "startup cash".

 

I suppose it depends what you want out of your modelling [hmm, hasn't someone already suggested this?]  When I get something like a jet fighter with "highly detailed" jet engines, I think, "Well, I can see the front and the back, I don't need nuthin' in between."  Likewise that lovely Merlin that Tamiya provides in their Spitfire (1/32)- if it is ready to fly, you can't see it anyway.  Granted you should, theoretically, be able to see some of the interior of a B-17, for example, so (to my mind) you can't escape some time spent on fiddly bits on the inside.  But if I can close the bomb bay doors, that's a major area of fiddliness and detail that I can ignore!

 

This is not to say that I'm a proponent of the "all that matters is the external paint job" school, but I do wonder if the time and money invested in one big, complicated model is as "valuable" as that same time and money distributed to several smaller/simpler aircraft.  Again, though, this is a very personal valuation. 

 

[Mike]

From my roughly 12 years back in the hobby, I think that the perception of "value" is so different between people that it's impossible to get any more than a fraction of the hobby to agree with your personal opinion.  Some people don't mind paying £500 for a high quality model that will give them endless pleasure in studying, detailing, building and eventually looking at their creation.  Others would still complain if you gave it to them for free with a crisp £10 note, because they wanted two fivers.  Some folks are genuinely and painfully miserly. Some folks are never happy, and nothing's ever right for some folks.  The rest of us vary from about the same to happy-go-lucky folks that don't really think too hard about the cost of their hobby, and never mention it other than during the internal discussion they have when they're considering a purchase.  It's just the way it is.

[NPL]

28 minutes ago, gingerbob said:

By that reasoning, though, why not buy some balsa wood and scratchbuild your model?  Lots of hours, for very little "startup cash".

 

I suppose it depends what you want out of your modelling [hmm, hasn't someone already suggested this?]  When I get something like a jet fighter with "highly detailed" jet engines, I think, "Well, I can see the front and the back, I don't need nuthin' in between."  Likewise that lovely Merlin that Tamiya provides in their Spitfire (1/32)- if it is ready to fly, you can't see it anyway.  Granted you should, theoretically, be able to see some of the interior of a B-17, for example, so (to my mind) you can't escape some time spent on fiddly bits on the inside.  But if I can close the bomb bay doors, that's a major area of fiddliness and detail that I can ignore!

 

This is not to say that I'm a proponent of the "all that matters is the external paint job" school, but I do wonder if the time and money invested in one big, complicated model is as "valuable" as that same time and money distributed to several smaller/simpler aircraft.  Again, though, this is a very personal valuation. 

 

Yes it can never be anything else than your 'personal valuation'. As to balsa it is a quite different technique. I do not think that it will appeal to many now-a-days, as the basic technique is not present. Fifty years it was quite common,and I believe that Alan Hall made use of it in his many conversions articles in the Airfix Magazines ... but that was the past.

 

And again, how many modellers of the kind there used to be, being everything, and putting a model together in a few hours do exist today.. They have mostly been lost to IT-games. 

[NPL]

and, Mike, there is an anormous lot of plastic to be put together in a 1:32 Lancaster. Half a years modelling, perhaps, to most people with other jobs. That was my point earlier: The time spent on such a model will easily make the buy a very cheap one, compared to the amount spent on say ten or fifteen 1.72 models finished within the same time limit.

 

But I know that getting one of the big models demands that you are either a billionaire or able to save money for it. 

[Pilgrim_UK]

It's a personal thing and how much you want to pay for a kit. I know plenty of folks who dropped 250+ on the Finemolds Falcon and then 100+ on the Tamiya Spitfire when they came out. That's not adding in all the extra's they probably bought for those kits. As other have mentioned their must be a market for it. Just like you have a market for footballers and supercars. I just admire those things and move onto something I am capable of buying.

 

Questioning the price of something can sound like a whinge ( No offence Sprue). Which I am no stranger too. 

 

 

[Adam Poultney]

They're a premium product within modelling. I can't afford them personally, but I'm sure they're worth it.

If you want to see real overpriced models, look at games workshop