Troy Smith Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 in this youtube clip there is some fascinating Canadian Hurricane footage I screen-shot some images for discussion, @airjiml2 I'm sure know more about this, an perhaps has the DVD? the combination of the Canadian spinnerless prop, A type roundels in all positions and white or aluminium doped patches over the guns make this a fascinating subject, one maybe for @Paul J ? this image better shows the exhausts staining, which is typical of running a very lean mixture which leaves pale lead oxide deposits, more typically seen on bombers and the underside EDIT the magic of the web found me this http://www.rwrwalker.ca/RCAF_5650_5699_detailed.html Quote 5656 Hawker Canada Car & Foundry, Fort William Hurricane Mk. XII 1081 first date: 15 March 1943 - Taken on strength by NO. 3 Training Command Category C damage at RCAF Station Rockcliffe at 19:00 on 18 December 1942, while being operated by No. 124 (Ferry) Squadron. This delayed initial acceptance while repairs were performed by No. 3 Training Command. First used by Home War Establishment. To No. 1 Training Command on 5 July 1943, for familiarization training at the Central Flying School, RCAF Station Trenton, Ontario. To Central Aircraft at Crumlin, Ontario on 6 October 1943 for prototype installation of drop tanks, delivered by No. 124 (Ferry) Squadron. Back to No. 3 TC on 17 March 1944. To storage with No. 3 TC on 14 August 1944. to No. 1 Air Command on 15 January 1945, still in storage. Stored at Dunnville, Ontario by 27 November 1945. Pending disposal there from 5 March 1946. last date: 3 July 1947 - Struck off, to War Assets Corporation for sale the lean run exhaust is well seen here RCAF # 5625 operated by 13 (Photo) Squ. RCAF. This aircraft has a unique camouflage pattern carried only by 13 Squ. Spitfires and Hurricanes. from @airjiml2 blog spot http://www.ascalecanadian.com/2007/10/rcaf-hawker-hurricanes-part-1.html 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 4 hours ago, Troy Smith said: in this youtube clip there is some fascinating Canadian Hurricane footage I screen-shot some images for discussion, @airjiml2 I'm sure know more about this, an perhaps has the DVD? the combination of the Canadian spinnerless prop, A type roundels in all positions and white or aluminium doped patches over the guns make this a fascinating subject, one maybe for @Paul J ? this image better shows the exhausts staining, which is typical of running a very lean mixture which leaves pale lead oxide deposits, more typically seen on bombers and the underside EDIT the magic of the web found me this http://www.rwrwalker.ca/RCAF_5650_5699_detailed.html the lean run exhaust is well seen here RCAF # 5625 operated by 13 (Photo) Squ. RCAF. This aircraft has a unique camouflage pattern carried only by 13 Squ. Spitfires and Hurricanes. from @airjiml2 blog spot http://www.ascalecanadian.com/2007/10/rcaf-hawker-hurricanes-part-1.html In the underside shot its interesting to see the camo paint( if it is the camo?) extending to below the leading edges of wings and tail planes. And that strange bit going around the nose to one side only??? Thanks Troy!!! PS I think the gun patches could be for aluminium paint . So.... I may well do this to my expectant Arma Hobby kit! Being spinnerless will help solve the prop spinner argument and I have spare Hamilton props too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 Just now, Paul J said: In the underside shot its interesting to see the camo paint( if it is the camo?) extending to below the leading edges of wings and tail planes. And that strange bit going around the nose to one side only??? Just a film or video effect Paul If you at the shout above then you can clearly see standard demarcations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 12, 2019 Share Posted January 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Troy Smith said: Just a film or video effect Paul If you at the shout above then you can clearly see standard demarcations. Possibly? Is the underside aluminium dope do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted January 12, 2019 Author Share Posted January 12, 2019 36 minutes ago, Paul J said: Possibly? Is the underside aluminium dope do you think? No, Sky, or a Canadian version of it, look at the wing/fuselage faring, wing leading edge and the rear of the fuselage strake before the rudder. Also make me ponder on how close were Canadian colours to MAP standards. one perhaps for @StevSmar ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Some more Canadian Hurcs: http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/lac-bac/results/images?form=image&lang=eng&FormName=Image+Search&PageNum=1&SortSpec=score+desc&HighLightFields=title%2Cname&Language=eng&QueryParser=lac_mikan&Sources=mikan&Archives=&ShowForm=show&SearchIn_1=&SearchInText_1=hawker+hurricane&Operator_1=AND&SearchIn_2=&SearchInText_2=&Operator_2=AND&SearchIn_3=&SearchInText_3=&Media[]=&Level=&MaterialDateOperator=after&MaterialDate=&MaterialDate=&DigitalImages=1&Source=&cainInd=&ResultCount=50 http://image-bank.techno-science.ca/databases/image_bank/dig_img.cfm I think the unpainted gun patches are just that, unpainted fabric patches. Somewhere on this forum is a video showing a "erk pealing pre-made patches off abacking and sticking them onto a Hurc's wing. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 1:42 PM, Troy Smith said: ...Also make me ponder on how close were Canadian colours to MAP standards. one perhaps for @StevSmar ? Unfortunately I'm not a good one for this question. There was an image of a drawing on FB that was posted by the group who are restoring the Hurricane for the Calgary's Aerospace Museum that showed the colour scheme they are using. I can't recall if it had colour codes on it though. A troll through the "Hawker Hurricane Appreciation" FB page's photo album will yield it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevSmar Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/12/2019 at 6:19 PM, dogsbody said: Some more Canadian Hurcs: ... Chris Thanks for the links Chris, some nice images there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fubar57 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 @Crimea River is helping with the restoration of the Hurricane for the Calgary's Aerospace Museum 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, fubar57 said: @Crimea River is helping with the restoration of the Hurricane for the Calgary's Aerospace Museum Lucky sod! Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 That's MISTER sod to you Chris! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimea River Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 15 hours ago, StevSmar said: Unfortunately I'm not a good one for this question. There was an image of a drawing on FB that was posted by the group who are restoring the Hurricane for the Calgary's Aerospace Museum that showed the colour scheme they are using. I can't recall if it had colour codes on it though. A troll through the "Hawker Hurricane Appreciation" FB page's photo album will yield it. Steve, et al., the colours for the Hurricane being restored b the Calgary Mosquito Aircraft Society were researched with the best info available to us. The drawing that Steve refers to (and which I won't post here) was not mean to convey actual colour but served more as a shop drawing to locate and define colour demarcations and other markings. The actual colours that we are using have been custom mixed and are the culmination of efforts and contributions from many people. General agreement exists among subject matter experts that the Hurricane Mk XIIs produced by CCF and typically used by the Western Air Command in 1942 and 1943 carried the Canadian equivalent of the Royal Air Force (RAF) Temperate Land Scheme camouflage of Dark Green and Dark Earth upper surfaces and Sky undersides. Ian Huntley, in an article titled "RCAF Colours 1939-1945" that appeared in the November 1984 issue of Scale Aircraft Modelling magazine, stated that “Like other Dominion and Commonwealth countries, Canada used the basis of the British Air Ministry and associates technical standards departments as a starting point for the RCAF” and that “Canadian Car and Foundry produced Hawker Hurricanes in …home produced paint, these making an interesting comparison with the 25 British-built and painted machines imported by Canada in 1937.” The fact that the Dark Green and Dark Earth equivalent colours were used on our Hurricane was further substantiated by the existence of faded remnants of the original paint on the upper surfaces of the port wing when we received the aircraft. Whereas this evidence supports the use of these colours for the upper surfaces, determination of the exact shades of these colours at the time of application was more problematic for a number of reasons: · The original paint remnants on the wing were over 75 years old and had been subject to weather, dirt, wear, and the normal deterioration of paint finishes that occur over time · Colour chips used by the CCF to specify the paint colours no longer exist or are unavailable. · The specific supplier of the paint used on this aircraft is unknown and could be one of several. Original paint formulations for the CCF orders are unknown for any of these manufacturers More relevant to the question here, Huntley also noted that the CCF used North American paint suppliers and did its best to replicate the RAF equivalent Ministry of Air Production (MAP) colours being prepared for use by aircraft factories in the UK. In a report prepared by Air Ministry Production Controllers after an inspection it was noted that “…..examination of a pack of sprayed out colours revealed many slight variations when compared with the sprayed MAP colour cards. The general observations were that Canadian Dark Earth was perhaps a fraction more red-brown; Dark Green a little more of a blue-green while the RCAF-titled ‘Duck egg bluish-green Sky’ a shade more on the blue side than its MAP counterpart….” With no definitive paint samples from which the CMAS could produce modern equivalents of the actual colours used, the only alternative left to us was to prepare our own colours based on: the paint remnants we had, generally-accepted RAF colours recognized in the war bird restoration industry and by reputable aircraft modellers period photos and videos our own observations of locally-displayed restored aircraft of the same era, and the subjective observations noted by Huntley above. Unfortunately, a spectral analysis of the paint remnants was not undertaken before the paint was removed by our restoration contractor. However, a photo colour wheel was placed on the sample area for our records. Though this comparison did not define the colours to be specified, it was nonetheless useful in assessing the colour groups for the brown and green and in comparing these on the same colour wheel with actual samples that came to hand as we developed our specification. In the end, we prepared a specification that combined all of the observations noted above. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now