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Baltimore FA435 colours?


David Womby

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A question: I am building FA435 in her post war guise.  I have the Kits at War decals and they indicate she was silver all over.  That looks right according to the 3 photos I have found on the web including the one below except, looking at this photo, I think the cowlings look like they are NOT silver. Opinions?  Maybe black?   She definitely has an anti-dazzle panel too.


fa435-2.jpg

(Note: I do not know who owns rights to this photo.It may be Carmel Attard as I found it here http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal15/14201-14300/gal14257-Baltimore-Attard/12.shtm)

 

Sadly, FA435 ended her days being scrapped by pushing her over the cliffs at Hal Far.

 

David

David

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Judging from the photos and my highly suspect Mk 1 eyeballs, it doesn't appear that the cowlings are a dark as the antiglare panel forward of the windscreen. Maybe whatever the original camouflage color was or a replacement cowling from another Baltimore? If both cowlings were the same color, I would guess original paint color as well as to possibly act as antiglare. Just spitballin' here, as we say in Texas!

Mike

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I did my model with Dark Green cowlings,...... they were commonly seen on early post war transports in the Middle East which had been painted silver such as Baltimore`s, Ventura`s, Lodestar`s, Wellington`s etc.

Here is my 1/48th Classic Airframes model with another in wartime colours if they are of interest or of use,

Cheers

        Tony 

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Thanks, gents.  Tony, your use of green would fit Mike's comment about not black for the cowlings which I had already realised was probably correct although I was leaning to dark grey (not sure why).  Your build article references a pic of another Baltimore wearing a Flag Officer's marking.  May I ask where to find that, please?  Fantastic builds BTW!!

 

David

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Is it known what she was used for before?

There are some fairly well known pics of a GR Baltimore from Malta (13 Sq.?) with a small „Saint“ Art , which was in dark (EDSG?) over light (white?) with high demarcation. So if 435 was ex GR, she would not have had dark cowlings to this extent I think. If she had been a bomber, she‘d likely have had DE/Midstone cowlings- I think. 

I guess the waves have reduced her to produce (or microplastic?) in the meantime - pity that as I always found it a very handsome aircraft which could have had one preserved....

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FA435 was a Mk.III used by 454 Sq.  Sadly it gives no dates for this service.  454 initially flew GR missions in the Eastern Mediterranean but after July 1944 transferred to bombing duties in Italy, receiving Mk.Vs.  Some Mk.IIIs apparently soldiered on with the unit until December 1944.  FA435 was transferred to the Admiralty in December 1945, so it spent a long time sitting in an MU.

 

I strongly suspect that it was indeed in the Coastal colours of EDSG/White, but in that case the engine cowlings would have been White, not dark.

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2 hours ago, tonyot said:

I did my model with Dark Green cowlings,...... they were commonly seen on early post war transports in the Middle East which had been painted silver such as Baltimore`s, Ventura`s, Lodestar`s, Wellington`s etc.

I should have known- if it starts with a 'B' Tony has built at least two! Both of your Baltimores are stunners, TOT, BTW! Going to be a very distinctive-looking Baltimore, David!

Mike

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2 hours ago, David Womby said:

Thanks, gents.  Tony, your use of green would fit Mike's comment about not black for the cowlings which I had already realised was probably correct although I was leaning to dark grey (not sure why).  Your build article references a pic of another Baltimore wearing a Flag Officer's marking.  May I ask where to find that, please?  Fantastic builds BTW!!

 

David

Hiya David,

                 Here is the naval Baltimore with the Admirals flag, I believe that it may have been taken in Gibraltar;

resized_284b84ec-d4b0-466c-a97c-7fd4bbb6

 

And here are some pics of the Baltimore at Hal Far,.... you may have seen these already?;

b258dea8-dcbd-4736-83e3-f45618cbbbeb.JPG

8b6a927e-7a18-4928-926d-0972c1cfafe9.JPG

 

And the same aircraft being dumped over the cliff, showing the under wing serial;

5f83146a-1296-4c73-924b-6e52687481b5.JPG

628dbe1e-331b-407e-bcb2-6dee11c0aed7.JPG

 

All the best,

                  Tony

Edited by tonyot
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4 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Interesting that the dark colour on the cowling is run back over the top of the nacelle.

Some of that could be exhaust staining Graham,..... I see what you mean, but it doesn`t show on all of the photos.

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Looks a bit too neat for exhaust staining.  On the pre-dumping picture look how the port dark is restricted to the actual uppersurface nacelle and does not spill onto the wing.  On the middle photo on the Balt by the signal square it is a specific band behind the cowling with a sharp division between it and the rear of the upper nacelle, whereas on the original view it doesn't go all the way down but only over the upper quadrant, or thereabouts, and then tapers back neatly.

 

Remember this isn't wartime, there's lots of spare time and the Andrew does like things neat and tidy.

Edited by Graham Boak
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Tony, thanks for the photos.   Where on earth do you get these from?

 

I tend to agree with Tony, Graham, and think that neat tapered area on the starboard nacelle is exhaust stain.  I can see similar marking on a camouflaged Baltimore in the first photo on this page: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/06/19/martin-baltimore/.

 

Then again, on the photo of rolling her over the cliff, the port nacelle looks darker all over.  The undersides of the nacelles are clearly silver in the phtot of her in the drink and the topsides look silver in the photo of her stood on the airfield,   So I think I will go with silver except for a black anti-dazzle panel and Tony's green for the cowlings?  Or could they be in camo and we only see the upper sides so the lower portion of the cowling could be in underside camo - grey/sky/azure blue.  On the whole, I think overall green cowlings.


David

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8 minutes ago, David Womby said:

Tony, thanks for the photos.   Where on earth do you get these from?

 

I tend to agree with Tony, Graham, and think that neat tapered area on the starboard nacelle is exhaust stain.  I can see similar marking on a camouflaged Baltimore in the first photo on this page: https://weaponsandwarfare.com/2018/06/19/martin-baltimore/.

 

Then again, on the photo of rolling her over the cliff, the port nacelle looks darker all over.  The undersides of the nacelles are clearly silver in the phtot of her in the drink and the topsides look silver in the photo of her stood on the airfield,   So I think I will go with silver except for a black anti-dazzle panel and Tony's green for the cowlings?  Or could they be in camo and we only see the upper sides so the lower portion of the cowling could be in underside camo - grey/sky/azure blue.  On the whole, I think overall green cowlings.


David

No worries David,

                          I just collect photos for reference purposes and to use as illustrations for when I was writing books and articles. 

As I said before, the dark cowlings (Dark Green) were common in the Middle East post war for anti glare purposes, here is a Wimpey;

97b27f97-ece8-4f35-9a70-ef6b5bbc9d11.jpg

 

And a pair of transport configured Ventura`s;

3f3dec44-5d10-45dd-bd53-8e5838c978a5.jpg

 

All the best mate,

                           Tony 

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8 hours ago, David Womby said:

please tell me those Venturas do not have Type D roundels on them!!!!!!!

They do not, definitely C type, I did a google image search on Tony's photo & found some bigger ones hosted on PB.

Steve.

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3 minutes ago, stevehnz said:

They do not, definitely C type, I did a google image search on Tony's photo & found some bigger ones hosted on PB.

Steve.

Thank you !

 

I have this obsession to build everything that ever wore Type D and don't need another type to add to the huge backlog.

 

David

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