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Mikemx

RNZAF P-40 colours

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I've got myself the new Special Hobby 1/72 Kittyhawk Mk III (P-40K) and I want to check the colours for the RNZAF one on the box art. The instructions say Foliage Green on top and Grey-Green (I think they mean RAF Sky Type S) underneath.  Would this be correct? The Special Hobby P-40 kits are brilliant btw, everyone should make one!

 

thanks
Mike

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This i think is one for @LDSModeller  but AFAIK they stayed in US Colors, Olive Drab over Neutral Gray, though some P-40E's were in RAF specified colours

 

Foliage Green is an Australian colour, not a RNZAF one. 

found this

http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/RNZAF Paint.htm

 

AH, here you go....

which had escaped my notice before so I've learned something new :) 

 

 

below is a colours shot of a P-40M posted mostly to show the RNZAF roundels are not light blue they are so often shown as....

44809199712_67d6fee60d_c.jpg

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Pete mossong’s site

rnzaf.hobbyvista.com

should give you all the info you need.

If the above address won’t work just type Pete Mossong into your search engine of choice and the site will come up.

HTH

Dave

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1 hour ago, Troy Smith said:

This i think is one for @LDSModeller  but AFAIK they stayed in US Colors, Olive Drab over Neutral Gray, though some P-40E's were in RAF specified colours

 

Foliage Green is an Australian colour, not a RNZAF one. 

found this

http://www.cambridgeairforce.org.nz/RNZAF Paint.htm

 

AH, here you go....

which had escaped my notice before so I've learned something new :) 

 

 

below is a colours shot of a P-40M posted mostly to show the RNZAF roundels are not light blue they are so often shown as....

44809199712_67d6fee60d_c.jpg

 

Yeah I know, which is why I thought it was odd that the instructions quote an RAAF colour for a RNZAF aircraft. I thought perhaps they might have meant RAF Dark Green or USAAF Olive Drab.  The kit decals are in a darker Blue.

 

thanks

Mike

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2 hours ago, Mikemx said:

I've got myself the new Special Hobby 1/72 Kittyhawk Mk III (P-40K) and I want to check the colours for the RNZAF one on the box art. The instructions say Foliage Green on top and Grey-Green (I think they mean RAF Sky Type S) underneath.  Would this be correct? The Special Hobby P-40 kits are brilliant btw, everyone should make one!

 

thanks
Mike

Hi Mike,

 

The RNZAF tended more to use the US vernacular for their aircraft designation

so P40E/P40K - M-N and not the RAF Mk numbers -why modellers and manufacturers

insist on the RAF usage????

 

The rendition of the Special Hobby box top is a New Zealand based P40K and did

not serve overseas (NZ3061)

It would have arrived in New Zealand in US Olive Drab/Neutral Grey - Served with

2 OTU Ohakea (Central New Zealand). at some point in time it would have been given

a re-paint (Note Not all P40's had this)

The photo by Charles Darby in RNZAF the First Decade shows the aircraft (albeit a bit bent),

certainly appearing in NZ Foliage Green/NZ Sky Grey

NZ Foliage Green certainly could be an Australian produced colour. BALM produced paint for Australia and New Zealand

The NZ Sky Grey is not a Sky colour but as the name suggests a Grey - I checked with

the RNZAF Museum on this.

 

Whilst I have the greatest respect for Pete Mossong's site, bear in mind some of his

comments on the P40 are now wrong - further more information from the RNZAF Museum

now disqualifies some of his comments.

 

Regards

 

Alan

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1 minute ago, LDSModeller said:

Hi Mike,

 

The RNZAF tended more to use the US vernacular for their aircraft designation

so P40E/P40K - M-N and not the RAF Mk numbers -why modellers and manufacturers

insist on the RAF usage????

 

The rendition of the Special Hobby box top is a New Zealand based P40K and did

not serve overseas (NZ3061)

It would have arrived in New Zealand in US Olive Drab/Neutral Grey - Served with

2 OTU Ohakea (Central New Zealand). at some point in time it would have been given

a re-paint (Note Not all P40's had this)

The photo by Charles Darby in RNZAF the First Decade shows the aircraft (albeit a bit bent),

certainly appearing in NZ Foliage Green/NZ Sky Grey

NZ Foliage Green certainly could be an Australian produced colour. BALM produced paint for Australia and New Zealand

The NZ Sky Grey is not a Sky colour but as the name suggests a Grey - I checked with

the RNZAF Museum on this.

 

Whilst I have the greatest respect for Pete Mossong's site, bear in mind some of his

comments on the P40 are now wrong - further more information from the RNZAF Museum

now disqualifies some of his comments.

 

Regards

 

Alan

Hi Alan

 

I have Foliage Green and 2 different Sky Grey's in my paint selection. I've got Sky Grey seen on FAA aircraft and I have the Curtiss DuPont Sky Grey, which was used instead of RAF Sky Type S - would either of those be fairly close? It doesn't have to be spot on, as long as it's roughly similar!

 

thanks

Mike

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7 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

Hi Alan

 

I have Foliage Green and 2 different Sky Grey's in my paint selection. I've got Sky Grey seen on FAA aircraft and I have the Curtiss DuPont Sky Grey, which was used instead of RAF Sky Type S - would either of those be fairly close? It doesn't have to be spot on, as long as it's roughly similar!

 

thanks

Mike

The FAA Sky Gray (perhaps some lightened) would be closer than DuPont Sky Type S - Grey which is actually a Duck Egg Blue Colour

 

Regards

 

Alan

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20 hours ago, LDSModeller said:

The FAA Sky Gray (perhaps some lightened) would be closer than DuPont Sky Type S - Grey which is actually a Duck Egg Blue Colour

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

Thanks for the help. I'll be going with Foliage Green and a slightly lightened Sky Grey then.

 

thanks

Mike

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The NZ Sky Grey was not a grey colour, but was a greyer version of SKY Type S.

 

(NZ) Sky Grey:  BALM S13-907.   33B/293  (Fs.35352 -  RAF/FAA Sky Grey  Bs.631).  Although called a grey, it has a distinctly blue/green tone to it. Undersides on P-40, Ventura, Hudson, possibly Corsair, and code letters. 

 

nzsky_grey.jpg

 

My notes from my old (and unable to be updated website*). The colour is from a chip removed from P-40N NZ3220 'Gloria Lyons' which was repainted in the Foliage Green/NZ Sky Grey scheme.

The Foliage Green to all intents and purposes was the same as the Australian colour.

 

Cheers,

Pete M.🤔

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1 hour ago, Pete M. said:

My notes from my old (and unable to be updated website*). The colour is from a chip removed from P-40N NZ3220 'Gloria Lyons' which was repainted in the Foliage Green/NZ Sky Grey scheme.

Hi Pete,

 

Nice to hear from you.

 

Re the NZ Sky Grey - I had a interesting discussion with the RNZAF Museum last year

about the actual colour and what records were held concerning the colour.

The answer was nothing currently as to the  mixing/ingredients or the actual hue (ie Blueish Greenish Grey

per your comments).

The colour described to me was more akin to a Light Grey - hence my comments - there are a lot of holes

in some of these colours descriptions but hopefully more information will come forth

 

Regards

 

Alan

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That makes it sound like the Curtiss DuPont Sky Grey might be a better likeness. I'll have to look when I get home.

 

thanks

Mike

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17 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

That makes it sound like the Curtiss DuPont Sky Grey might be a better likeness. I'll have to look when I get home.

 

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

There is No such thing as DuPont Sky Grey - The correct term for the paint you are referring

to, is Sky Type S - Grey which is a Duck Egg Blue Colour, such as on this P40E-1 Swatch

in my collection

5f5bf348-e74d-4e5d-bcb4-1eb404e9165f.JPG

BALM (British Australian Lead manufacturers) NZ Sky Grey is a completely different colour

During WWII the RNZAF did have a Duck Egg Blue colour, known as NZ Duck Egg Blue

it was not a Grey colour, and closer to DuPont Sky Type S - Grey than NZ Sky Grey

 

Regards

 

Alan

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1 hour ago, LDSModeller said:

Hi Mike,

 

There is No such thing as DuPont Sky Grey - The correct term for the paint you are referring

to, is Sky Type S - Grey which is a Duck Egg Blue Colour, such as on this P40E-1 Swatch

in my collection

5f5bf348-e74d-4e5d-bcb4-1eb404e9165f.JPG

BALM (British Australian Lead manufacturers) NZ Sky Grey is a completely different colour

During WWII the RNZAF did have a Duck Egg Blue colour, known as NZ Duck Egg Blue

it was not a Grey colour, and closer to DuPont Sky Type S - Grey than NZ Sky Grey

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

It's the colour Curtiss used instead of Sky Type S. I've heard it described as like Sky Type S but more Grey.

 

thanks

Mike

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2 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

 

It's the colour Curtiss used instead of Sky Type S. I've heard it described as like Sky Type S but more Grey.

 

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

My paint Swatch above, the lower colour is DuPont 71-021 Sky Type S - Grey

the real actual colour. - As you can see there is nothing Grey about it - The Grey suffix

was added by DuPont, quite possibly to differentiate between the RAF and US versions and possibly

referring to it's production process, but the Colour is a Pale Blue with a greenish tinge

Unfortunately lots of Supposed Experts who have never actually seen the colour will tell you its grey:hmmm:

and again unfortunately unsuspecting modellers take these experts at their word - been there done that

 

Regards

 

Alan

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1 minute ago, LDSModeller said:

Hi Mike,

 

My paint Swatch above, the lower colour is DuPont 71-021 Sky Type S - Grey

the real actual colour. - As you can see there is nothing Grey about it - The Grey suffix

was added by DuPont, quite possibly to differentiate between the RAF and US versions and possibly

referring to it's production process, but the Colour is a Pale Blue with a greenish tinge

Unfortunately lots of Supposed Experts who have never actually seen the colour will tell you its grey:hmmm:

and again unfortunately unsuspecting modellers take these experts at their word - been there done that

 

Regards

 

Alan

Well that's all very confusing. It sounds like the kit painting guide is correct then.

 

thanks

Mike

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11 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

Well that's all very confusing. It sounds like the kit painting guide is correct then.

 

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

Just remember your mode,l your choice -

 

just bear in mind that there are also "Supposed" experts who supply these manufacturers with dud information,

because their Mum's cousin's half brother twice removed read it some where too.

Some times they also use outdated information from books published eons ago.

When Special Hobby initially posted this kit, they had the Box Top art depicting this particular

aircraft having just shot down a Japanese Aircraft - NZ3061 (as I said in my initial post) AFAIK never served

overseas - They also had OTU markings on the box art which RNZAF aircraft never wore overseas.

On the Special Hobby section here on Britmodeller, I posted  my above comments, Petr from Special Hobby quoted the Charles Darby

book RNZAF the First Decade - Yes there is a photo of this aircraft in the book, the Special Hobby folks simply

made the assumption that this aircraft served overseas and you can read it in their blurb on the markings sheet in the kit.

It's not the first time Special Hobby have done this, nor I expect the last.

 

Decal manufacturers do it to - check out my comments on this thread I posted last year

When I have done as much research on a model as I can and there are still unanswered

questions, I simply use this statement - "This is My Take" on this aircraft scheme.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

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41 minutes ago, LDSModeller said:

Hi Mike,

 

Just remember your mode,l your choice -

 

just bear in mind that there are also "Supposed" experts who supply these manufacturers with dud information,

because their Mum's cousin's half brother twice removed read it some where too.

Some times they also use outdated information from books published eons ago.

When Special Hobby initially posted this kit, they had the Box Top art depicting this particular

aircraft having just shot down a Japanese Aircraft - NZ3061 (as I said in my initial post) AFAIK never served

overseas - They also had OTU markings on the box art which RNZAF aircraft never wore overseas.

On the Special Hobby section here on Britmodeller, I posted  my above comments, Petr from Special Hobby quoted the Charles Darby

book RNZAF the First Decade - Yes there is a photo of this aircraft in the book, the Special Hobby folks simply

made the assumption that this aircraft served overseas and you can read it in their blurb on the markings sheet in the kit.

It's not the first time Special Hobby have done this, nor I expect the last.

 

Decal manufacturers do it to - check out my comments on this thread I posted last year

When I have done as much research on a model as I can and there are still unanswered

questions, I simply use this statement - "This is My Take" on this aircraft scheme.

 

Regards

 

Alan

 

 

 

That then begs the question, are the markings correct in the kit? The history of the actual aircraft is not really important to me, I just wanted a model of a RNZAF P-40 in these colours.

 

thanks

Mike

Edited by Mikemx

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9 minutes ago, Mikemx said:

 

That then begs the question, are the markings correct in the kit? The history of the actual aircraft is not really important to me, I just wanted a model of a RNZAF P-40 in these colours.

 

thanks

Mike

Hi Mike,

 

Yes, I can confirm the markings are correct - The Photo in Darby's book, of NZ3061

are the same as the kit depicts.

The Roundel colours appear a bit light in the Blue spectrum - again another one of

these STUPID MYTHS (sorry for shouting -just annoys me) that Modellers/Kit/Decal manufacturers

seem to think that ALL RNZAF aircraft had faded markings  (rant over)

New Zealand has a Temperate Climate - Aircraft and markings don't fade like they do in

the more Northerly SW Pacific Operational areas

 

Regards

 

Alan

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No worries. I think the roundels in the kit look fairly dark to me but I don't know if they are dark enough. They are certainly darker than on the box art.

 

thanks

Mike

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