DH.91 Albatros colours

[GrahamB]

Graham - yes, Prestwick not Preston. 😳

[mhaselden]

According to Wikipedia (yes, I know), 271 Sqn operated the DH91s from Wick in Scotland on the Iceland route.

[GrahamB]

I forgot to mention this great little bit of archive film of the DH.91 - including the prototypes/later mailpanes E2 and E3. Wonderful stuff, including that extinct clipped accent of the narrator!

 

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dh.91+de+havilland&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=6Q_zNrj0GpM

[Work In Progress]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:03 PM, Dave Fleming said:

I can’t see aluminium (painted or bare metal) in those pics. 

We can absolutely comprehensively and definitively rule out bare metal, for reasons which should be obvious!

[GrahamB]

Well, it's decision time for my Valom DH.91 Albatros conversion (see work in progress thread. Under surface colour: yellow, Sky or aluminium dope?? Votes, anyone?

Cheers, GrahamB

P.S. yellow is a horrid colour in model paints and I hate the sparkly and sub orange-peel look in most (all/) acrylic metal paints - I cannot get on with these. But... if needs must.....

 

 

[Heather Kay]

I’m expecting to go with aluminium dope when I build mine, which will be some time in the 2030s at my current rate!

 

Edit to say the photo you posted shows the camo to be quite roughly painted with no sharp edge where it joins whatever colour is underneath. To me, that indicates a fairly rushed job, and bears up the underside being aluminium.

[mhaselden]

8 hours ago, GrahamB said:

Well, it's decision time for my Valom DH.91 Albatros conversion (see work in progress thread. Under surface colour: yellow, Sky or aluminium dope?? Votes, anyone?

Cheers, GrahamB

P.S. yellow is a horrid colour in model paints and I hate the sparkly and sub orange-peel look in most (all/) acrylic metal paints - I cannot get on with these. But... if needs must.....

 

 

 

I'm a little confused/cautious about correlating the 2 locations identified in the annotation above.  The area on the engine looks like a natural metal exhaust cover which is different from the underside paint.  

[GrahamB]

I'm not sure about the cylinder head fairings being natural metal. I am trying to show that the underside colour is quite bright when in direct light - note how it brightens on the rear fuselage where the curvature begins to reflect more - this is what the pointer indicates.

[Work In Progress]

I would depict the underside in aluminium dope

[mhaselden]

I'm not at all convinced that the undersides were aluminium.  Firstly, it was not a standard RAF colour for the undersides of any aircraft at this stage of the war.  Secondly, I think we can discount the idea that the camouflage was applied to the upper surfaces and the undersides were left in their pre-war paint.  For one thing, the code letters are not present.  Also, there are some features not present in the civilian scheme that are visible here, for example the stripe under the fuselage near the tailwheel.  So, if the undersides were aluminium, then the aircraft was deliberately repainted in that scheme...which would be very odd in wartime.  Finally, I see no great reflectivity to the underside paint.  It looks just like Sky or, perhaps, yellow.  

 

Just my two penn'orth.

[Heather Kay]

31 minutes ago, mhaselden said:

Firstly, it was not a standard RAF colour for the undersides of any aircraft at this stage of the war. 

Most Army Co-op and Coastal Command planes had aluminium undersides until quite late in 1940, so I’d argue it’s not that unusual at all.

 

Your other arguments make sense, though.

[mhaselden]

28 minutes ago, Heather Kay said:

Most Army Co-op and Coastal Command planes had aluminium undersides until quite late in 1940, so I’d argue it’s not that unusual at all.

 

Your other arguments make sense, though.

 

Yeah...you're right.  Clearly I was having (yet another) brain fart.  However, the DH.91 didn't really fit with either of those roles, so we still have the problem of how a small-quantity airframe in a non-standard role would be camouflaged.  My suspicion is that it was Sky...but that's just my opinion.  

[Graham Boak]

Aluminium was still to be seen in Fighter Command too.  If this aircraft was repainted on the outbreak of war - give or take a bit - then this was too early for Sky, but when did it go to the squadron?  I would agree that a later overpaint of the underside would provide a less ragged demarcation.

[mhaselden]

According to this website, 271 Sqn received the first DH.91 on 24 October 1940.  That puts the timeframe solidly in the window when Sky would be readily available.  I really do think that's the most logical choice.  We should be careful of reading too much into the rather ragged demarkation which could simply be lack of time/resources to do the job properly rather than indicating a particular colour (or pair of colours) being applied before/after the other colour(s).  

Edited June 2, 2020 by mhaselden

[GrahamB]

Thanks for all the comments - it is useful to air these subjects now and then. I think I will stick with  Aluminium dope for the undersides. The appearance is not incompatible with this - the fairly dark tone (not in glancing light) would fit with the 22.5% reflectivity mentioned by Paul Lucas, and its shine could produce the bright highlights indicated in the photo above. When at Wick the DH.91 was initially operating with Coastal Command Hudsons that were possibly changing from Aluminium to Sky. A large aircraft, the photos show very patchy Dark Earth - lightened significantly in place by over-thinning - stretching out the supply of paint. Quite  a task, so the underside colour may not have been a priority - and was not "wrong".

Cheers,

GrahamB

[Admiral Puff]

As has often been said, it's hellish hard to interpret colours in B&W photographs. However, I think your choice can be justified.

 

The underside is clearly not yellow. This is apparent from comparing the underside of the fuselage with the outer ring of the adjacent roundel. The aircraft when taken over from Imperial/BOAC was in overall silver; it's certainly not outside the bounds of possibility that the undersides were left that way, and camouflage applied to the upper surfaces only, thus resulting in some time saving at least. Contra that, there would have been civil registration markings under the wings at the time of takeover, and there does not appear to be any evidence of their removal/overpainting.

 

The alternatives appear to be either Sky or some variety of light grey. Either would come up looking very similar to the colour of the code letters in the photograph (but then, the same could be said for silver). Beyond that I am not prepared to venture. Whether or not a decision to expend extra time, money and paint on an aircraft that was, at best, in second-line operations at a time when front-line aircraft were at a premium is not something on which I am competent to make comment.