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jenko

Airfix 2020

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6 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

Explain the Whitley then. No survivors, yet there's a lovely modern kit. Same with the car door variant of the Typhoon.

I'm not even sure there's a currently complete Wellington around, only a partial one currently in pieces.

 

The requirement on data is comparatively recent.  For dating, the Do 17 was slightly modified on the basis of the recovered wreckage.

There are two Wellingtons: one at Brooklands but recovered from Loch Ness in two parts and re-united.  The one now at Cosford? had been converted to a trainer: not sure how it is now.  I believe that is the one Airfix used for data: it may have been under restoration at the time and so somewhat more accessible.

There is an extant Whitley fuselage and enough data according to Simon Owen, Airfix's researcher.

The car door Typhoon: Airfix obviously felt data from existing a/c was sufficient.

In a sense, Airfix set their own rules, though again according to Simon Owen, 'there are lots of subjects they would like to do but can't'

Aside from the commercial viability of a Manchester, I'm really not sure if surviving data (is there anything other than photos?) is sufficient.  My own view is that there are many, many more worthwhile subjects.  Do I hear cries of Beaufort  and Venom?

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6 minutes ago, Denford said:

My own view is that there are many, many more worthwhile subjects.  Do I hear cries of Beaufort  and Venom?

Yes, especially the latter!

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12 minutes ago, Denford said:

Hornby Hobbies, though financially 'recovering' have still not paid off their debt.  Others may be better able to inform how far they have yet to go.

In that case the Hornby bean counters will only countenance ‘bankers’.
 

I would suggest (1/72) Mosquito - a two stage Merlin one as a first release, a CCF Harvard and yes a Chipmunk. All have myriad variants, and/or users and in the case of the latter two, are comparatively small and may not use up too much of the research and tooling costs.

 

Trevor

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The original Manchester drawings would have been lost to the great Chadderton fire, but there may be prints out there somewhere.

Of course it would be possible for a good CAD designer to re reverse engineer the Lancaster main planes and enpenage which is how Avro went from Manchester to Lancaster in the first place.

My grandfather was the jig and tool foreman at Avro’s Newton Heath works and he altered the Manchester’s jig drawings into the Lancaster simply by spacing the ribs further apart. The Lancaster used the same ribs and the same quantity of ribs as the Manchester, just spaced further apart. This applied to the main plane, fin / rudder and tailplane. The only new parts were the spars and skin.

BTW, my grandfather worked on the drawings on his kitchen table after he got home from work and his stint firewatching - well there was a war on.

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36 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

In that case the Hornby bean counters will only countenance ‘bankers’.
 

I would suggest (1/72) Mosquito - a two stage Merlin one as a first release, a CCF Harvard and yes a Chipmunk. All have myriad variants, and/or users and in the case of the latter two, are comparatively small and may not use up too much of the research and tooling costs.

 

Trevor

I wouldn't want another trainer aircraft, but a Mossie would be amazing.

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19 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

I wouldn't want another trainer aircraft, but a Mossie would be amazing.

Agree that a Mossie would be amazing especially the much overlooked twin-stage versions used later in the war and post war.

 

As for trainers, Airfix have given us the Vampire T.11 and JP T.3 in recent years and there's a lot of mileage in terms of colour schemes, to be gained from a long canopied Harvard notwithstanding the fact that there's ye olde and verrie ancient Harvard in the back catelogue, I for one would be very pleased to see this in 1/72nd.

 

Harvards are often seen at airshows and I think that connection with the public would help sales.

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40 minutes ago, Denford said:

The requirement on data is comparatively recent. 

 

In a sense, Airfix set their own rules, though again according to Simon Owen, 'there are lots of subjects they would like to do but can't'

 

Aside from the commercial viability of a Manchester, I'm really not sure if surviving data (is there anything other than photos?) is sufficient. 

 

My own view is that there are many, many more worthwhile subjects.  Do I hear cries of Beaufort  and Venom?

Believing that a less restrictive member of management has returned to the fold, i wonder if this "like to do but can't" is still a thing.  My reasoning for this thinking surrounds the Hellcat, where i believe all the development, and maybe the tooling was in place, new manager comes in and pretty soon after, its in the case at Telford. 

 

As to the Manchester, i see mention that the fuselage was carried over to the Lanc, but apart from tail configurations, i thought the only other difference was the inner section of the wing extended to take the 4 Merlins? How much difference is there with the outer wings?

 

Going through this thread proves there are many worthwhile subjects to be covered, and i hope the kit designers have been given a wee bit of freedom to create what they would like to do. For me, i hope they are going as far as they can to cover as many allied WWII subjects as they can LIDAR, then see if they can finish off the Cold War British subjects. I would also hope that 1/144 is being considered again as i think there are many UK transport subjects that should be covered. 

 

What i think will be released for BoB, 

1/72 Spitfire Ia 

1/72 Hurricane I

1/72 Defiant 

others

1/72 Buccaneer S2B

 

New tools,

1/48 Hurricane IIc

1/72 Liberator

And at long last, a 1/72 Battle.

Arabest,

Geoff.

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12 minutes ago, Wez said:

 

As for trainers, Airfix have given us the Vampire T.11 and JP T.3 in recent years and there's a lot of mileage in terms of colour schemes, to be gained from a long canopied Harvard notwithstanding the fact that there's ye olde and verrie ancient Harvard in the back catelogue, I for one would be very pleased to see this in 1/72nd.

The vampire is nice to be fair. I have one fully assembled ready for painting. 

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My most urgent guesses for the next WWII 1/72 new tools (must not necessarily be this year):

- Lincoln (there are hints the Telford announcement will be of a big and British and from (19)45 subject)

- Two stage Mossie

- Ju 88A1

- Battle (cause they simply cannot ignore this forever)

 

My personal wishes:

- York

- Lancastrian

- Mustang A/B/C

- Harvard

- Hudson

- Lodestar

 

In any case I hope Airfix eye all major versions.

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2 hours ago, Jazzie said:

Going through this thread proves there are many worthwhile subjects to be covered, and i hope the kit designers have been given a wee bit of freedom to create what they would like to do. For me, i hope they are going as far as they can to cover as many allied WWII subjects as they can LIDAR, then see if they can finish off the Cold War British subjects. I would also hope that 1/144 is being considered again as i think there are many UK transport subjects that should be covered. 

If by the kit designers you mean those who sit at a computer screen designing the molds from measurements probably by others, I very much doubt that they have any freedom at all to 'create what they would like to do'.

 

From Telford, Airfix have an (annual?) budget presumably from Hornby Hobbies.  From this they must work to get the best financial return they can: there may be some restraints\requirements on cash flow too.  There's no magic in this and I suspect most manufacturing businesses face similar issues.

 

For this, they have to estimate both sales revenues and production costs of their choices.  Again from Telford, the designers have to provide estimates of screen hours, which together with other costs ranging from License Fees to Shipping and Company Overheads, make up the initial investment.  There are other variables such as do more parts (and hence costs) pay off in increased sales?  Or would new computer software to enhance design speed/accuracy be worth it?  Costs would have to come from the budget meaning less money spent on kit design.  As for forecasting sales, they probably have a pretty good idea for their 'core area'.  To move outside this would, for me, be like going into a Betting Shop.  Hence no 1/144 as suggested above.

 

As if that's not enough there has to be variety.  I've seen postings here calling 10 or more 1/72 single-seat fighters all in urgent need of (re)tooling !  However by all accounts Hornby Hobbies, though still 'in the red', seem to be recovering with Airfix paying its way.  This all suggests their current way of working and more particularly subject choices are correct.  To be sure there will be disappointments: Helicopters don't sell nor seemingly does WWl or we'd have seen more of them.  Despite choice restrictions eg availability of data, there is still a huge pool, no ocean, of potential subjects being reduced at the rate of at around 5-6 per year!  No wonder one's 'pet subject' never seems to come up.

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7 hours ago, Denford said:

Why should Airfix  tool a new P-47 when there are perfectly good kits already available from Tamiya?

 

Because those Tamiya P-47s don't make any money for Airfix.

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30 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Because those Tamiya P-47s don't make any money for Airfix.

Exactly.

 

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6 hours ago, Denford said:

There is an extant Whitley fuselage

This is the surviving Whitley fuselage:

N1498-4.jpg

 

Probably not bother with the LIDAR then. :wink:

 

Damn! I told myself that I wouldn't take part in this thread this year. :sad:

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Guys, I need to interject here to restore some perspective to this discussion.  This is a fanciful thread about what everyone would like to see produced by the big red Airfix.  It's not meant to be a fight to the death about how much you know about the "industry" and how much other people don't know.  It's also not about "we already have XXX from Tamiya" as that's a spurious argument anyway.  It's been debunked a thousand times because an XXX from Tamiya doesn't make a penny for Airfix (the same applies to every manufacturer).  Failing to see this whilst spouting other "facts" is a pretty serious omission. :hmmm: Also, don't forget that NO-ONE is citing sources for their alleged information, so to be arguing about it is rather puerile.

 

Now.  This last few pages has become somewhat combative, with one or two members taking great delight in shooting down everyone else's speculations and asserting their own speculations are more accurate.  This is where the perspective needs to return to the thread, and the argumentative tone needs to go away before things get heated and consequences are meted out by the Mods.  We don't want to, so please don't force the issue.  Light, hopeful and cheerful is where this thread should be, as 99.9999999999% of this is utter wishful thinking. :shrug:

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40 minutes ago, John Thompson said:

How ironic - I must be psychic! Only minutes ago (well maybe 60 of them) I changed my signature:

 

<Twilight Zone music>

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6 hours ago, The Fat Fingered Modellist said:

I am with those who think the next release will be a 1:72 Wessex, as they have appeared on both the new tool F4 and Buccaneer box art.  Apparently Airfix only put kits they produce in the background on the box art.

 

Gazza 

Incorrect, Blenheim Mk1 box art shows Blenheim  being attacked by a KI 43 Oscar

Airfix as of yet do not produce one

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18 hours ago, Jazzie said:

As to the Manchester, i see mention that the fuselage was carried over to the Lanc, but apart from tail configurations, i thought the only other difference was the inner section of the wing extended to take the 4 Merlins? How much difference is there with the outer wings?

 

Aeronut has answered this above. The Manchester outer wings are much more strongly tapered. The rib spacing was increased to make the Lancaster outer wing.

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12 hours ago, Acinonyx Jubatus said:

Incorrect, Blenheim Mk1 box art shows Blenheim  being attacked by a KI 43 Oscar

Airfix as of yet do not produce one

In that case, my predictions are (based on normal Airfix releases of a left field choice, a trainer, a cold war, and a replacement for an existing tool) :

 

KI 43 "Oscar" - left field choice

Harvard - trainer

cold war - Tornado

replacement tool - Washington / b29

 

A bonus guess / prediction - RN cold war "Ark Royal" deck crew.

 

You'll thank me when the sheets are lifted off the perspex boxes in Telford ;)

 

 

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19 hours ago, Jazzie said:

 

 

 

 

. I would also hope that 1/144 is being considered again as i think there are many UK transport subjects that should be covered. 

 

 

Agree with the choice of subject but, not the choice of scale. However, If I recall correctly, Airfix did announce some time ago that would neither be retooling their existing 1/144 kits nor issuing new kits in this scale.

 

Allan

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13 hours ago, Acinonyx Jubatus said:

Incorrect, Blenheim Mk1 box art shows Blenheim  being attacked by a KI 43 Oscar

Airfix as of yet do not produce one

Indeed and, using the same logic and referring to some of the classic vintage box art, Airfix should also produce a Ki-84 ( seen attacking the (B-29) and, an Fw-200 ( being engaged by a Sunderland) and,an SA-2 missile (seen whizzing past an Israeli F-4E)? Well, this IS a speculation thread! 😊

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11 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

Indeed and, using the same logic and referring to some of the classic vintage box art, Airfix should also produce... an SA-2 missile (seen whizzing past an Israeli F-4E)?

As an aside, have you seen how much the old and rare kit is going for!?! :o 

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42 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

Agree with the choice of subject but, not the choice of scale. However, If I recall correctly, Airfix did announce some time ago that would neither be retooling their existing 1/144 kits nor issuing new kits in this scale.

 

Allan

Sure about that? They have the Concorde up for preorder 

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