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jenko

Airfix 2020

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2 minutes ago, Rickoshea52 said:

And two squadrons of HC2’s at Benson. Does the LIDAR subject have to be a museum piece, why not an operational cab?

Makes it a lot easier, less paperwork, more freedom to do what's needed (depending on the museum, ours is do what you need) and I would know if they were doing a Puma as I have researched all the Corgi helicopters for the last ten years plus helped with the Airfix Sea King.

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2 minutes ago, Truro Model Builder said:

Airfix did LIDAR an operational Sea King HC.4 at RNAS Yeovilton.

Because at that time there were none in museums .

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6 hours ago, Wez said:

I think those of you wanting Airfix to produce a York and/or Manchester should go for a lie down in a darkened room with a damp flannel on your foreheads!

 

Think about it, how many of Joe Public know about either of those types?  I'll tell you, very, very, very, very, very, very few.  Once Airfix have sold a York or Manchester to you guys and some bloke called Clive and his pet dog Eric, there would be an awful lot of kits left on the shelf!  Likewise the Vulcan B.1 - not many colour scheme variations on that whereas a B.2 sub type many, many more and there's the recent memories of XH558.  Airfix knew what they were doing when they kitted the Mk2 version of the Victor, I think they've got a better idea of the market than most of us!

 

So stop trying to get Airfix to commit commercial suicide and think more mainstream, another Spitfire, a Harvard, a Mosquito as new tools maybe?  Where Airfix should be clever is filling niches in these types where these exist - Spitfire Vc, long canopied Harvard, twin-stage Mossie for instance.

 

Step away from cloud-cuckoo land, come towards the light...

And how many of Joe Public knew about the Swift? Probably very,very,very,very,very very few and yet, Airfix produced one . A kit of an aircraft produced in fewer numbers than the .Manchester and serving with only two squadrons. The Manchester at least had the virtue of being developed into one of the most successful WWII heavies. The Swift was a complete  clunker from day one!

Funny thing is , Airfix is still in business. As for the York, maybe you should explain your business logic to Mikro Mir and help prevent them committing commercial suicide by producing their own kit of said aircraft.

Remind me please how many colour scheme  variations  and sub types TSR 2 had? One and none to be precise and yet, Airfix produced two kits of an aircraft that was scrapped at the prototype stage! And yet, they are still in business!

It is frankly ludicrous to suggest Airfix would be committing " commercial suicide " by (hypothetically) producing a York a Manchester or a Vulcan B1 . These are just a few  items in a large range of kits. They might make a loss but I doubt very much if it would be a disaster.

 

On the subject of a Vulcan (and Victor ) B1, I presume that Mikro  Mir (again) presumably contemplated and disregarded the possibility of commercial suicide by producing their own kits of same?

You are absolutely correct of course in stating that Airfix may have a better idea of the market than us which, given their propensity for springing surprises may ensure that it is not the customers requesting the afore mentioned items that need to lie down with beflanneled foreheads

 

Allan

 

Edited by Albeback52

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Well said Allan. I would have thought that  ‘any’ mainstream type subject (not fanciful one offs) that has not been kitted by another manufacturer in the last 40 or so years would be ripe for mass purchasing by today’s modelling public. Let’s forget Lidar, workshop spec plans etc. but subjects like the Lincoln and Manchester have never been ‘injection mould’ kitted in their own right since the dawn of plastic modelling began. There would have to be a market out there for that novelty fact alone. Who wouldn’t want to display the start and finish of the Lancaster story without these two beauties parked either side of your new tooled Airfix Lanc? There’s plenty of other subjects out there but I’ll just limit it to these two. 

 

Cheers. Dave 

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50 minutes ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Well said Allan. I would have thought that  ‘any’ mainstream type subject (not fanciful one offs) that has not been kitted by another manufacturer in the last 40 or so years would be ripe for mass purchasing by today’s modelling public. Let’s forget Lidar, workshop spec plans etc. but subjects like the Lincoln and Manchester have never been ‘injection mould’ kitted in their own right since the dawn of plastic modelling began. There would have to be a market out there for that novelty fact alone. Who wouldn’t want to display the start and finish of the Lancaster story without these two beauties parked either side of your new tooled Airfix Lanc? 

 

There’s plenty of other subjects out there but I’ll just limit it to these two. 

 

Cheers. Dave 

I think it's actually sometimes difficult to define the term " fanciful " as, it's so subjective. I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that just because "very few members of Joe Public" have heard of a subject that it is not worthy of kitting.

 I wonder for example now many members of said public have heard of a Kalinin K-7, Focke - Wulf Triebflugel or, Sanger  Antipodal Bomber and yet, we either have or, soon will have kits of all three! Clearly the manufacturers also surmised there is a market for same and, I commend them for their imaginative choices and, boldness in proceeding.

 

I think there is always room for an "oddity"and, there is an encouraging trend ( in my eyes anyway) amongst manufacturers to produce them. They would not do so if they didn't think they'd sell. To me anyway they are more interesting than endless streams of Spitfires and F16s etc!

Every company has their bread and butter subjects and, Airfix is no exception. The money they make from them makes it possible to think out of the box once in a while. They certainly won't commit "commercial suicide"!

Your point about the Manchester and Lincoln is valid and,  the Manchester in particular, as well as being a most handsome aircraft  has " Lancaster " written all over it. Both it, and the Lincoln would , I think be very recognisable to the afore mentioned public even if they didn't recognise the names. Same with the Vulcan and Victor BI. They are after all, a Vulcan and Victor!😊

Whatever Airfix pull out of their hat will please as many as it disappoints.Going by past experience, I think we could also be taken by surprise 

 

Allan ( who still can't believe he's writing this at 02.25 a m!😂

 

Ps what's a Beaufort? Never 'eard of it! 😉 ( just kidding, honest!)😂

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4 minutes ago, Albeback52 said:

Ps what's a Beaufort? Never 'eard of it

... kinda like a single seat Venom, only different... but I've never heard of these creatures either! 

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Unfortunately the success of any aircraft type has little correspondence to the sales success of it's scaled down representation. If it were, we would have had plenty of options to build numerous Canberra, Meteor, Vampire and Venom. And that's just sticking with British 1940's -'50's designs. All were built in a bewildering variety of subtypes and were operated around the globe in a huge variety of colour schemes. Yes, all of these can be found as scale kits, but few made by the more familiar mainstream companies, which is a huge pity.

 

Here's hoping 2020 will see at least one of these picked up by Airfix.

 

Edge

 

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10 hours ago, Truro Model Builder said:

Airfix did LIDAR an operational Sea King HC.4 at RNAS Yeovilton.

I was under the impression it was done at Fleetlands where there examples of HAR3, 3A and HC4, I have a recollection of a photo taken in a hangar with different variants in and the LIDAR equipment set up. 
Even so it’s a shame they couldn’t get the differences between the 3 and 3A correct. 
 

Correction - An HC4 was scanned at HMS Sultan Gosport - https://www.airfix.com/us-en/news/airfix-2015-ipms-scale-modelworld-announcement

Edited by Rickoshea52

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10 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

That seems feasible. One of the most feasible here. I'm not a fan of the Hampden, but would welcome a new kit for all those who are, and that's another subject in need of a modern kit taken care of. 

Same again for American subjects. Not a huge fan tbh but I certainly would welcome new kits. A P47 would be the only one I think I'd be likely to buy (my italics) as I'm quite a fan of that aircraft, but there are many others that just don't really interest me. 

That said, captured aircraft are always a possibility and something I'm rather interested in.

Why should Airfix  tool a new P-47 when there are perfectly good kits already available from Tamiya?

It would either have to be very much cheaper, or at the same price of significantly better quality: neither very likely.

 

Come to think of it, didn't they issue one in the late 60'?  Series 1 as I recall, and with almost enough parts to qualify it for Series 2.  Can anyone recall how 'good' it was or put another way, was it of sufficient quality to re-release as a cheaper alternative to Tamiya?

 

Again to quote you, there are many, many 'subjects in need of a modern kit taken care of'.  More likely than a Hampden is a Boston\Havoc: far more users, colour schemes and variants than the Hampden ever had.  Whilst not doubting the sincerity of 'Hampden lovers' nor the readily available data at Cosford,  surely a Boston\Havoc makes better world-wide commercial sense.

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I agree with your P-47 (Tamiya) comments Denford, however Italeri have rereleased the old AMT Bostons a few times and I don’t think they’re overall that bad. On this basis the Hampden (having never been kitted in 1/48) could seem to be the more marketable option(?). Having said all that I’m sure we agree the Boston kills the Hampden for colour scheme and nationality options so there seems to be a market for each subject on both sides of the equation. 

 

Cheers.. Dave 

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14 minutes ago, Denford said:

Why should Airfix  tool a new P-47 when there are perfectly good kits already available from Tamiya?

It would either have to be very much cheaper, or at the same price of significantly better quality: neither very likely.

 

The same reason numerous spitfire, p51, Lancaster, Bf109, b17 and many more types have toolings from many manufacturers. 

They want in on the sales from a popular subject, even if there is competition the market is certainly big enough for another P47. 

I also think Airfix kits are more accessable for less advanced modellers and make for quicker builds than higher end kits. I assume the Tamiya kits are very well detailed and have a huge parts count compared what what am Airfix kit would have. 

Personally I enjoy both ends of the spectrum, the extremely detailed Eduard kits (must really get on with my Fw190) and more practically designed Airfix kits (and I'm fact I'm quite a fan of fighting my way through older kits as well even the results aren't as good, and I'd only do that for a subject I really love). And tbh I would take an Airfix Spitfire mki over an Eduard Spitfire (I don't know if they ever issued a mki) most of the time as I don't really see the need for all the extra detail on every single build. 

 

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9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

And how many of Joe Public knew about the Swift? Probably very,very,very,very,very very few and yet, Airfix produced one .

And the general impression we're given is that they caught a cold in doing so (although I did my bit and bought a couple).

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

serving with only two squadrons.

At least three as the FR.5 - 2, 4 and 79 Sqns, if you include the pure fighter versions then you can add 56 Sqn, arguably some of the most iconic and colourful squadron markings in the RAF.

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

The Manchester at least had the virtue of being developed into one of the most successful WWII heavies.

Agreed, it did develop into one of the most successful heavies, only after being an abject failure in its original form.

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

The Swift was a complete  clunker from day one!

Agreed, but my views on the Supermarine Fat Knacker have often been expressed on this forum, a swift (the bird), is a graceful, lithe and agile bird, everything the Supermarine jet isn't.  Supermarine's jet is no Hawker Hunter either.

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

As for the York, maybe you should explain your business logic to Mikro Mir and help prevent them committing commercial suicide by producing their own kit of said aircraft.

Easy, different business model and economies of scale.  Comparing Airfix to Mikro Mir is like comparing apples to runner beans.  We're constantly being reminded of how precrious the financial position of Hornby is, I would expect that Airfix's management would be being steered to avoid anything commercially risky.

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

On the subject of a Vulcan (and Victor ) B1, I presume that Mikro  Mir (again) presumably contemplated and disregarded the possibility of commercial suicide by producing their own kits of same?

See above.

 

9 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

it is not the customers requesting the afore mentioned items that need to lie down with beflanneled foreheads

Oh go on, it's a funny image, the idea of numbers of modellers doing just that around the world makes me grin :wicked:, beflanneled, good word that!

 

 

Edited by Wez

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15 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

Airfix produce lovely kits of types such as the Wellington, Whitley and B5N1/2. 

The Manchester would fall into this kind of category. 

I agree about the Wellington, Whitley and Kate but I don't see the Manchester in the same category

 

15 hours ago, Adam Poultney said:

he B1 has just as much if not more variation than the B2. You can have straight wings or kinked wings, silver schemes, white schemes and camouflage schemes, you could have a B1 or B1a

B.1/1A - 5 units including the OCU, three colour schemes (silver, white, camouflage over white).

 

B.2 (and sub versions including B.2MRR and B.2K - 10 units including the OCU (white, early hi-vis camouflage, later camouflage versions (of which there are many variations)).

 

I know which version I'd rather have if it came to a single kit but as Airfix have shown us, they can provide options with their mould which hopefully satisfy us all.

Edited by Wez

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14 minutes ago, Wez said:

I agree about the Wellington, Whitley and Kate but I don't see the Manchester in the same category

 

B.1/1A - 5 units including the OCU, three colour schemes (silver, white, camouflage over white).

 

B.2 (and sub versions including B.2MRR and B.2K - 10 units including the OCU (white, early hi-vis camouflage, later camouflage versions (of which there are many variations)).

 

I know which version I'd rather have if it came to a single kit but as Airfix have shown us, they can provide options with their mould which hopefully satisfy us all.

Agreed very much on your last point. At the end of the day, I'm going to buy it regardless of which variant it is. I think the difference is do I have it gear up (B1/1a) on a stand or do I have it gear down on the ground (B2). Only option I would be unhappy with is the initial release being only K2s (I would like this as maybe the 2nd release).

In regards to a B2, I think the schemes I'd like are an early anti flash aircraft, a half camo aircraft with grey underside and black nose (radome?) (XH557 would be great), half camo with no black nose (XM655 or XH560), and a wrap around (other than 558).

For B1/1a aircraft, I've got to go with XA900 (RIP), XA901 (white), XA891 (silver), and a B1a in camouflage. 

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44 minutes ago, Adam Poultney said:

The same reason numerous spitfire, p51, Lancaster, Bf109, b17 and many more types have toolings from many manufacturers. 

They want in on the sales from a popular subject, even if there is competition the market is certainly big enough for another P47. 

I also think Airfix kits are more accessable for less advanced modellers and make for quicker builds than higher end kits. I assume the Tamiya kits are very well detailed and have a huge parts count compared what what am Airfix kit would have. 

Personally I enjoy both ends of the spectrum, the extremely detailed Eduard kits (must really get on with my Fw190) and more practically designed Airfix kits (and I'm fact I'm quite a fan of fighting my way through older kits as well even the results aren't as good, and I'd only do that for a subject I really love). And tbh I would take an Airfix Spitfire mki over an Eduard Spitfire (I don't know if they ever issued a mki) most of the time as I don't really see the need for all the extra detail on every single build. 

 

I'm afraid I can't get the multi-quote to work (always happens to me) but why should/shouldn't Airfix tool a new P-47 when there is already one available from Tamiya?

 

Firstly, new toolings of the types you list are almost invariably 'improvements' over what has gone before.  Usually detail\accuracy but sometimes cost, snap together etc.  Hannants list the Airfix P-51 at £6.99 vs £12.99 for the Tamiya P-51: midway are Academy and others.  So why not the same for P-47?

 

Quality: some have contended that the Tamiya P-47 is the best ever 1/72 kit!  My example gives no dates, but it must have been around 10+years yet the quality is 2020 and unlikely ever to be bettered.  Yes, a 'new' P-47 could have some fewer parts (and so be cheaper) but that would bring it in competition with the likes of Hasegawa, Academy etc so it would have to show some other advantage. 

 

You say ' ..the market is big enough for another P-47.'  How do you know?  Have you conducted any research?  Your not having seen the Tamiya offering (if I read your post correctly) I can assure you that it does not have a 'huge parts count'.  Yes, there is a selection of underwing stores, the engine could be part of the main cowling and a few other short-cuts could made which would bring it 'into line' with other available kits over which it would have no real advantage. 

 

I'll agree with accessibility, easier build etc with the junior modeller in mind but that isn't the way Airfix currently make their kits.  Were this required, they could re-issue their 60's kit.

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15 minutes ago, Muddyf said:

Bristol Beaufort 1/48 or 1/72.

 

One day......

 

Now that's something I would not complain about. 1/72 is my chosen scale unless I'm building a Bf109 so I think my preference for scale is clear.

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10 hours ago, Albeback52 said:

And how many of Joe Public knew about the Swift? Probably very,very,very,very,very very few and yet, Airfix produced one . A kit of an aircraft produced in fewer numbers than the .Manchester and serving with only two squadrons. The Manchester at least had the virtue of being developed into one of the most successful WWII heavies. The Swift was a complete  clunker from day one!

Funny thing is , Airfix is still in business. As for the York, maybe you should explain your business logic to Mikro Mir and help prevent them committing commercial suicide by producing their own kit of said aircraft.

Remind me please how many colour scheme  variations  and sub types TSR 2 had? One and none to be precise and yet, Airfix produced two kits of an aircraft that was scrapped at the prototype stage! And yet, they are still in business!

It is frankly ludicrous to suggest Airfix would be committing " commercial suicide " by (hypothetically) producing a York a Manchester or a Vulcan B1 . These are just a few  items in a large range of kits. They might make a loss but I doubt very much if it would be a disaster.

 

On the subject of a Vulcan (and Victor ) B1, I presume that Mikro  Mir (again) presumably contemplated and disregarded the possibility of commercial suicide by producing their own kits of same?

You are absolutely correct of course in stating that Airfix may have a better idea of the market than us which, given their propensity for springing surprises may ensure that it is not the customers requesting the afore mentioned items that need to lie down with beflanneled foreheads

 

Allan

 

Most of these have been answered elsewhere save:

- TSR2.  An old chestnut: the 'Airfix' that tooled it went bankrupt soon afterwards.

- On the basis that Manchester was developed into the Lancaster, the Supermarine Type 224 should surely be tooled as it was a precursor to the Spitfire.

- Nobody has yet shown where there is Manchester data to the standard Airfix currently require.

- That something ' ..might make a loss but wouldn't be a disaster..' I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  Hornby Hobbies, though financially 'recovering' have still not paid off their debt.  Others may be better able to inform how far they have yet to go.

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6 minutes ago, Denford said:

 

- Nobody has yet shown where there is Manchester data to the standard Airfix currently require.

 

Explain the Whitley then. No survivors, yet there's a lovely modern kit. Same with the car door variant of the Typhoon.

I'm not even sure there's a currently complete Wellington around, only a partial one currently in pieces.

 

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18 minutes ago, Denford said:

 

- That something ' ..might make a loss but wouldn't be a disaster..' I don't know whether to laugh or cry. 

Feel free to choose. I had a good laugh at the above. Any kit has the potential to make a loss, even the ones that you and the Airfix bean counters are convinced will be sure fire best sellers.

 

Allan

Edited by Albeback52

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Ju-88A1 for the anniversary. Obvious, necessary.  I'm not sure relatively obscure types from the war and early post-war are going to sell in large numbers to the rest of the world. However, look at Corgi for ideas of where the wind blows.

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8 minutes ago, 12by12 said:

Ju-88A1 for the anniversary. Obvious, necessary.  I'm not sure relatively obscure types from the war and early post-war are going to sell in large numbers to the rest of the world. However, look at Corgi for ideas of where the wind blows.

Would be nice to see! I always welcome more German types

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