Pauly Boy Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 What markings were used on the Wirraway during the first 6 months of the Pacific Campaign(Malaya, Singapore, NEI). I'm assuming the standard British roundels. The Australian blue/white didn't come in to play till later in 42 correct?? Thanks Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Correct, although memory suggests a narrower yellow ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Paul, The Wirras were finished in RAAF Earth brown / Foliage Green with aluminium lacquer under surfaces. They retained their RAAF stores ref numbers on the fuselage and under the wing. Roundels were RAAF standard for the time, (R/W on wing uppers, R/W/B on fuselage sides and RWB under wings). After arrival in Singapore most, if not all, had fin flashes added and a narrow Yellow band added around the fuselage roundel to conform with RAF practice as they operated under RAF control. If you go to the AWM at www.awm.gov.au and search the collection, you will find shots of A20-47, GA-B and A20-85, GA-F, one with yellow roundel band, one without. Photo refs are 006644, 006645, 006646, and 006650. HTH. I have other shots. If they may be of use, PM me. Peter M 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyot Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 (edited) I did a couple of Wirraway builds recently(ish),....... those in Singapore had a yellow ring (narrow) added to the fuselage roundel but most early Wirraway`s had A Type roundels on the fuselage and under the wings with B Type above the wings. There are some reference photos etc in the WIP`s that are also attached WIP`s to the above posts, Cheers Tony Edited January 8, 2019 by tonyot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Nice models Tony!! 👍 Pity the 1/48 SH kit is so poor. 😒 I can however thoroughly recommend the Red Roo detailing set that you mentioned. The fuselage of the SH kit is quite incorrect in planform. SH have elected to give it a continuous curve from front to rear. The designers at North American were not stupid and didn't want to put all those stringers through the roll bender: they elected to keep them straight as much as possible. This meant that the only double curvature panel was between frames 6 and 7; all others were single curvature only, much easier to make. So, when viewed from above, the fuselage tapers in sharply behind the engine cowling back to frame 1, parallel sided from frame 1 to frame to frame 6, curved from frame 6 to frame 7, straight taper to frame 10, and then sharper taper to frame 11, (note, it does not fair into rudder). SH also managed to get that latter part wrong. The windscreen is too shallow in slope and too wide at its base, and the canopy tapers in planform. SH also managed to make the wing centre section too wide, resulting in wheel wells and doors that are too large. The wing/fuselage fillets are totally inaccurate aft of the wing. Tailplanes are undersized and inaccurate in shape. Otherwise its not a bad kit. I'm probably too close to the subject, but I elected to base my Wirraways on the Belcher BT-9 kit with wings etc modified from the Monogram T-6. I just can't visualize a Wirra without all those rivets. I recommend that anyone contemplating building a Wirraway check out Derek Buchmaster's drawings at http://dbdesignbureau.buckmasterfamily.id.au/. Top notch stuff. While I'm nitpickin', technically the Wirraway did not have Type A and Type B roundels, it had Scheme M.2 and Scheme M.1 roundels. OK, OK, I know they were the same as the Brit roundels upon which they were based. 😁 Cheers, Peter M 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pauly Boy Posted January 9, 2019 Author Share Posted January 9, 2019 Thank you all gentlemen! I have a MPM kit that's been laying around for a while now and thought it may be time to get some research done and move things along. Again wonderful info and thank you! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhaselden Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, Magpie22 said: Nice models Tony!! 👍 Pity the 1/48 SH kit is so poor. 😒 I can however thoroughly recommend the Red Roo detailing set that you mentioned. The fuselage of the SH kit is quite incorrect in planform. SH have elected to give it a continuous curve from front to rear. The designers at North American were not stupid and didn't want to put all those stringers through the roll bender: they elected to keep them straight as much as possible. This meant that the only double curvature panel was between frames 6 and 7; all others were single curvature only, much easier to make. So, when viewed from above, the fuselage tapers in sharply behind the engine cowling back to frame 1, parallel sided from frame 1 to frame to frame 6, curved from frame 6 to frame 7, straight taper to frame 10, and then sharper taper to frame 11, (note, it does not fair into rudder). SH also managed to get that latter part wrong. The windscreen is too shallow in slope and too wide at its base, and the canopy tapers in planform. SH also managed to make the wing centre section too wide, resulting in wheel wells and doors that are too large. The wing/fuselage fillets are totally inaccurate aft of the wing. Tailplanes are undersized and inaccurate in shape. Otherwise its not a bad kit. I'm probably too close to the subject, but I elected to base my Wirraways on the Belcher BT-9 kit with wings etc modified from the Monogram T-6. I just can't visualize a Wirra without all those rivets. I recommend that anyone contemplating building a Wirraway check out Derek Buchmaster's drawings at http://dbdesignbureau.buckmasterfamily.id.au/. Top notch stuff. While I'm nitpickin', technically the Wirraway did not have Type A and Type B roundels, it had Scheme M.2 and Scheme M.1 roundels. OK, OK, I know they were the same as the Brit roundels upon which they were based. 😁 Cheers, Peter M Hi Peter, Have you come to any further conclusions about whether the W Flt Wirras in Malaya had their undersides repainted? I don't have any strong views in either direction, nor have I seen any further evidence than the available online pics. Just wondering if you had any new info or opinions? Cheers, Mark P.S. I think you earned the Golden Globes "Best Pedant" award for your last comment! 🙂 Edited January 9, 2019 by mhaselden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Modellers interested in the wartime RAAF owe MPM/Special Hobby a vote of thanks for their excellent kits of the Wirraway and Boomerang in both scales. These have formed the basis of many builds on the net and there is much information attached to these build articles. Google searching should obviate the need for new threads repeating the same information. The various Red Roo upgrade sets are just a small addition to these fine kits. Sometimes they go out of stock (as is the 1/48 Wirraway one at the moment) but we aim to keep them available as long as the kits are in production. I did a couple of Wirraway builds recently(ish),.... Nice builds Tony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Well, it seems as though Peter doesn't think too much of the 1/48th Wirraway, and I certainly am not impressed with the various 1/72 releases from the MPM/SH family. So I suggest that your sales pitch would be more convincing without the "excellent". For 1/72, modellers are a lot better off with the High Planes kit. Roll on a modern 1/72 Wirraway which could be coupled to a Harvard Mk.I. I shall have to check the centre-section of the 1/72 kit - no-one has ever produced an SNJ-2 kit which had that variant's extended centre-section. I don't suppose it will be exact, but hey, so it goes... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 Excellence is a relative term, not absolute and encompasses more than just dimensions. The mere existence of a model, enabling a modeller to build something they want, is often enough! If there was even a Unicraft model of a VNS-41 I would be delighted and fix any problems I found. Years of customer feedback tells us that the average modeller would prefer a SH one to a Hiplanes one. Your mileage (and mine) may vary. Alternatively, you could wait for the Tamiya one, as it is very low on Airfix's (and likely every one else's) list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 9, 2019 Share Posted January 9, 2019 In the case of most High Planes models I would sympathise with this average modeller, but the Wirraway is nicer than the normal run of HP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, mhaselden said: Hi Peter, Have you come to any further conclusions about whether the W Flt Wirras in Malaya had their undersides repainted? I don't have any strong views in either direction, nor have I seen any further evidence than the available online pics. Just wondering if you had any new info or opinions? Cheers, Mark P.S. I think you earned the Golden Globes "Best Pedant" award for your last comment! 🙂 Mark, I have found no indication that the RAAF had them repainted before they went to the RAF. I doubt that the RAF repainted them after they were handed over as things were getting rather hectic by then. If the RAF repainted them, that brings up the question: what colour? I tend to lean to no repaint and the aluminium under surfaces retained, but that is just an opinion. Pedant I am. My boss for many years at ARL was an ex Tomahawk ace and Spitfire squadron commander. He became an aeronautical engineer after the war. He was very thorough and accurate in all his work and ensured that all T's were crossed and I's dotted - I must have picked it up from him. Cheers, Peter Edited January 10, 2019 by Magpie22 corrected spelling 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magpie22 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Ed Russell said: Excellence is a relative term, not absolute and encompasses more than just dimensions. The mere existence of a model, enabling a modeller to build something they want, is often enough! If there was even a Unicraft model of a VNS-41 I would be delighted and fix any problems I found. Years of customer feedback tells us that the average modeller would prefer a SH one to a Hiplanes one. Your mileage (and mine) may vary. Alternatively, you could wait for the Tamiya one, as it is very low on Airfix's (and likely every one else's) list. Ed, I agree that excellence can be relative. It really depends on what the modeller is looking for. Some want lots of detail in the cockpit, some want accurate colour schemes, others are looking to check that each panel line is in the correct place, and some want a quick build that looks OK to them. There is nothing wrong with any of those approaches. My baggage is many years spent working in aerodynamics, so errors in shape and dimensional accuracy leap out at me. To my mind, the shape errors in the 1/48 SH kit were rather basic and a modicum of decent research could have avoided them. On the other hand, as you point out, they probably do not worry many modellers and they are happy to build the kit as is. I choose to model the Wirra my way, but I do not criticize the way other modellers choose to model it. The enjoyment is in the build. Tony's model certainly demonstrates what can be done. I have no desire to build a VNS-41, although I have had the opportunity to inspect one in the 'flesh'. Interesting little beastie. Perhaps one of the Russian companies may produce one for you as that is where it originated some 20 years ago? Any idea when Red Roo may get some new stock of the 1/48 Wirra set? Peter M PS: Can you define the "average modeller" please. No such beast in my opinion. Your 'years of feedback' may tell you what the majority of those modellers seem to prefer, but it does not define the "average modeller". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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