1/72 - Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17F & Lim-5 "Fresco-C" by Airfix - released - new boxing in August 2024

[reini]

So which of the polish markings is correct way - the profile drawing or model?

[Corsairfoxfouruncle]

57 minutes ago, reini said:

So which of the polish markings is correct way - the profile drawing or model?

I believe the model is correct, upper red square in the roundel is forward. Im not 100% on this but something in my memory sats this should be correct. 

[MiG-Mech]

The model is correct.

[TheyJammedKenny!]

I thought the LiM-5 had an aerodynamic blister above the engine for a brake chute.  Perhaps only a few of them were built this way?  I wonder if it'll be an option.

[modelldoc]

I think NO.

 

The blister has the LIM-6, see the post on the previous page.

 

modelldoc

[Piotr Mikolajski]

4 hours ago, TheyJammedKenny! said:

I thought the LiM-5 had an aerodynamic blister above the engine for a brake chute.  Perhaps only a few of them were built this way?  I wonder if it'll be an option.

 

Here is short list of variants:

• Lim-5 = MiG-17F
• Lim-5P = MiG-17PF
• Lim-5R = Lim-5 with AFA-39 camera
• Lim-5M = Lim-5 modified with two metal fairing tanks fitted under the wings, which at the same time served as fuel tanks and fairings for the additional wheels of the main landing gear
• Lim-6 = first variant with brake parachute container
• Lim-6bis = main fighter-bomber variant, initially converted from Lim-6, later also produced as new aircraft, with brake parachute container
• Lim-6R = called also Lim-6bisR because it was Lim-6bis with AFA-39 camera
• Lim-6M = Lim-5P converted to the Lim-6bis standard without brake parachute container
• Lim-6MR = Lim-6M with AFA-39 camera

Long story short - brake parachute container was installed on Lim-6, Lim-6bis and Lim-6R versions only.

[TheyJammedKenny!]

Thanks, Piotr!  Perhaps someone will do a conversion part.  Was the Lim-6 ever exported to other countries, or was it a Poland-only conversion?

[Hook]

Lim-5's were exported, but the Lim-6/6bis was only used by the Polish.

 

HTH,

 

Andre

[KRK4m]

On 2/2/2019 at 12:14 PM, KRK4m said:

As the man guilty of acquiring of more than dozen of MiG-15/17s by the Polish Aviation Museum I'll try to outline briefly the Polish WSK Mielec-built LiM (Licencyjny Mysliwiec = Licence-built fighter) designation system:

Lim-1 = 227 early MiG-15 a/c built at WSK-Mielec (incl. Lim-1A)

Lim-2 = 500 MiG-15bis a/c built at WSK-Mielec (incl. Lim-2R)

Lim-1A = (A just for the 1st suffix letter available) as LiM-1, but with ventral recce camera in blister fairing under belly starboard side

Lim-2R = (for Rozpoznawczy = reconnaissance) as LiM-2, but with ventral recce camera in blister fairing under nose port side

SBLim-1 = (Szkolno Bojowy Licencyjny Mysliwiec = training/combat licence-built fighter) various Soviet, Czech and Polish-built early (RD-45-powered) MiGs rebuilt by WSK-Mielec into 2-seaters

SBLim-2 = as above, but powered with later VK-1A engine (both variants were NOT built as new in Poland, only remanufactured from existing airframes).

Lim-2Art = (for Artyleryjski = artillery) ex-SBLim-2, but single flight controls only, for artillery spotting and FAC duties

Lim-5 = 477 standard MiG-17F a/c built at WSK-Mielec (incl. Lim-5R). Unreheated MiG-17A wasn't built in Poland, the very few Poland used were received from the USSR.

Lim-5R = MiG-17F with ventral recce camera in blister fairing under belly starboard side (like Lim-1A)

Lim-5P = (for Przechwytujący = interceptor) 129 MiG-17PF a/c (with longer canopy and wider nose intake under the radar lip fairing) built at WSK-Mielec

Lim-5M = (for Modyfikowany = modified) 60 a/c built with increased (chord and thickness) wing root parts housing large fuel tanks and twin-wheeled main u/c, underbelly brake chute and JATO bottles on fuselage sides. 10 lost in crashes, other 50 later rebuilt to Lim-6bis standard

Lim-6 = 40 a/c built featuring different approach to the close support idea: standard wing and u/c, brake chute above the jetpipe, 2 additional hardpoints and blown flaps - later rebuilt to Lim-6bis standard

Lim-6bis = (for Latin "the second one") 70 a/c built as simplified variant of the Lim-6 (unblown flaps) plus 90 others rebuilt from 2 other variants (as mentioned above)

Lim-6R = several Lim-6bis a/c fitted with ventral recce camera in blister fairing under belly starboard side (like Lim-1A and Lim-5R)

Lim-6M = in the 1970s all surviving Lim-5P interceptors were deprieved of the nose AI radar and the weight gain was used to fit the additional 2 hardpoints - though no brake chute was fitted

Lim-6MR = as the Lim-6M but fitted with ventral recce camera in blister fairing under belly starboard side (like Lim-1A, Lim-5R, and Lim-6R)

Hope it helps

 

Two years seems a little bit too much to remember

Cheers

Michael

[old_tonto]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:49 PM, Hook said:

AFAIK the NVAF option in the previous boxing should feature the KK-2 seat as well. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

That is correct. Ironically Airfix used an image in their own promotions showing the real aircraft with the KK-2 so that can't say they didn't know.

[matford]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:43 AM, JWM said:

A room for aftermarket conversion, I am sure that it will appear...

Like this https://modelwork.pl/topic/23624-rodzinka-limów-różnych-wersji-rozwojowych-172/

 

[Hook]

47 minutes ago, old_tonto said:

so that can't say they didn't know.

Well, Airfix knew that the fin of the Harrier GR.3 is taller than the one of the GR.1 when they retooled their 1969 GR.1 kit in 1982, and yet they completely forgot when reissuing their new tool as a GR.3 in 2013.

 

Cheers,

Andre

[Uncle Dick]

22 hours ago, Hook said:

Well, Airfix knew that the fin of the Harrier GR.3 is taller than the one of the GR.1 when they retooled their 1969 GR.1 kit in 1982, and yet they completely forgot when reissuing their new tool as a GR.3 in 2013.

 

Cheers,

Andre

I understand what you are saying and sympathise  - however lets not forget Airfix is not a person with a lifetime memory; all it is - is a company whose owners have changed over the years and whose employees (who do the research and tooling) have changed over time, so there is no collective memory of what they did not do correctly and what they did correctly apart from anyone reading modelling forums on point and perhaps some in house notes from previous employees...to remind new employees of what should be fixed if they look at the model tooling again, unfortunately its not as simple as dealing with for example one person who knows the history of everything at least that is how I think it goes...

[Homebee]

News - ref. A03092 - PZL Lim-5 "Fresco"

Source: https://uk.airfix.com/community/blog-and-news/workbench/concorde-comes-home

 

Quote

Soviet aviation classic, Polish manufacturing prowess

 

Is it any wonder why box artwork reveals prove so popular with Workbench readers? This stunning work will grace the box of the forthcoming Lim-5 kit release and features an East German strike jet firing its load of unguided rockets

 

In the years which followed the end of the Second World War, the introduction of the world’s first jet fighters and the capture of classified German propulsion and aerodynamic data would dictate the future direction of world air power. As Europe traded six years of war for a peace which must be described as uneasy at best, the victorious Allied air forces began to trade their huge aviation inventories for fewer numbers of more technologically advanced designs, aircraft which utilised jet propulsion and would make full use of information captured with the fall of the Third Reich and the final weeks of conflict. As relations between former wartime allies began to deteriorate, both sides rushed to introduce new and more capable aircraft, each hoping that the deterrent threat of their awesome capabilities might prevent a swift return to war once more.

 

Initially, the Western powers were a little complacent in assuming Soviet jet technology was lagging somewhat behind the progress they themselves had been making, certain that the captured German data they possessed would give them a significant technological lead in this early race. Unfortunately, this presumption would result in something of a reality check during the Korean War, as Allied pilots first encountered the impressive MiG-15 fighter, an aircraft which proved to be a revelation. The diminutive MiG-15 was one of the first successful transonic jet fighters to feature a swept wing configuration and its performance proved more than a match for all but the very latest US North American F-86 Sabre jet fighters. As the world descended further into a Cold War of military threats and political mistrust, in everyday parlance, the acronym MiG would come to stand for the latest Soviet air power and aircraft the West must prepare to face in the event of conflict.

 

Even while the first frenetic jet versus jet fighter combat was taking place in the skies above Korea, engineers at the Mikoyan-Gurevich company were already at the advanced stages of developing and upgraded version of their impressive little jet. Whilst it would not be entirely accurate to describe this new aircraft as a direct replacement for the MiG 15, it did represent another technological leap forward in aviation design and incorporated many improvements over its predecessor, some of which were made as a result of feedback following operational experience. Having said that, many people could easily be confused by the appearance of the MiG 17 (NATO reporting name Fresco), thinking that it was actually the same as its predecessor, or at best, a slightly larger derivative of the original MiG 15. Although the aircraft clearly retains a strong resemblance to the earlier fighter, it is a completely different aeroplane, taking everything that was good about the MiG which posted such an impressive combat record of 3:1 during the Korean War and improving it in almost every way. It could even be argued that the MiG 17 was a fascinating combination of the best fighter technology from the Second World War and the latest advancements in transonic flight research, Equipped with a devastating array of machine gun armament and in the days before effective air to air missiles were available, this aircraft has been described as the Soviet’s last ‘Gunslinger’. 

Full CAD screenshot from the design files of our MiG 17/Lim-5 tooling, showing the inclusion of the wing root mounted Polis Mars-2 rocket pods which were eventually fitted to the East German Lim-5s

 

This computer rendered image clearly shows the similarities between the MiG-17 and its famous predecessor, however, if you know where to look, there are clear differences

 

The Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG 17 was a fast, high-subsonic fighter aircraft, designed to combat the potential threat of large scale Western bomber incursion into Soviet airspace. Although not intended as a dogfighter, the MiG 17 was an extremely manoeuvrable aircraft and would prove to be a feared adversary for much more modern designs during the Vietnam War. Indeed, these aircraft caused American airmen so many problems in combat, that in the aftermath of this conflict, the US initiated the lightweight fighter programme which would see such aviation heavyweights as the General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon and the McDonnell Douglas F-18 Hornet eventually entering service. In the never ending quest to develop aircraft possessing even greater speed, the MiG 17 design attempted to overcome the effects of compressibility by adopting an even greater sweep to its wings and was the first Soviet designed aircraft to introduce the engine afterburner, allowing pilots to access greater thrust on demand, at the expense of greatly increased fuel consumption.

 

Offensively, this was one of the most heavily armed fighters in the history of aviation and could boast two 23mm cannon under the port side nose of the aircraft and a mighty 37mm cannon under the starboard side – the entire lower nose section of the aircraft, back to just behind the cockpit, was devoted to guns and ammunition, which is why this fighter is often described as one of the last true jet powered gunships. With its combination of robust construction, extreme manoeuvrability and heavy armament, the MiG 17 proved that Soviet aviation design was a match for the Western powers in a combat situation. Although it was not produced in the same quantities as the earlier MiG 15, the faster and more powerful MiG 17 became the standard Warsaw Pact fighter from the late 1950s and served with the air forces of over 20 countries – it was also built under licence in both Poland and China, making this one of the most important jet fighters of the 20th century. 

 

Scheme A - PZL Lim-5, 45th Experimental Air Squadron, Polish Air Force, Modlin, Poland, 12th July 1993.

The Polish Air Force had been quick to enter the jet age with the MiG 15, convincing the Soviets that they needed the aircraft to provide an effective deterrent in ensuring Western aircraft did not enter its air space. In addition to securing Soviet built aircraft, they later signed a deal allowing them to produce licence built versions of both the aircraft and its engine and between 1952 and 1954, around 227 of these fighters, which were designated Lim-1 in Poland, were built, aircraft which would form the backbone of the Polish Air Force. With the arrival of the more capable MiG 17, Polish officials were keen to replicate this original arrangement, approaching the Soviets about obtaining and ultimately manufacturing the new jet.

 

Initially, twelve fighters were procured from the Soviets, with air and ground crews receiving conversion training in the Soviet Union. With a licence agreement in place, the manufacturing conversion was relatively trouble free, as the state run factories were experienced in manufacturing the MiG 15, not to mention the fact that the first four aircraft built were constructed from kit parts supplied by Mikoyan-Gurevich. Polish production of the MiG 17 would run to at least 477 Lim-5 fighters, with further undisclosed numbers of alternate variants for both home and export markets. The Polish reference Lim-5 loosely translates to Licence built fighter No.5 and these extremely capable aircraft would stay in Polish service for almost 40 years in a number of operational roles. Despite being a relatively early generation of jet fighter, this simple and easy to maintain fighter would be available in great numbers deep into the Cold War period and in the hands of a competent pilot, could still be a potent adversary for Western airmen.

Some of the first Polish MiG 17 (Lim-5) fighters to enter service did so at the Aircrew Conversion Training Facility at Modlin, an airfield which was used by the Luftwaffe during WWII and is now Warsaw Airport. The airfield would later be the home of the 45th Experimental Air Squadron, and important unit within the Polish Air Force tasked with test flying new and overhauled aircraft in advance of squadron allocation. They would later take on test and experimental flying duties, proving essential in the development, installation and operation of new weapons destined to be used by the Polish Lim-5 force. They would also operate the aircraft from motorways, as many of the Warsaw Pact nations were encouraged to train crews to operate aircraft from dispersed locations, maintaining their deterrent potential.

 

Lim-5 red 1717 had the distinction of being the last aircraft of its type in Polish Air Force service and the one which performed its final flight on 12th July 1993. An occasion which attracted significant media and enthusiast attention in Poland, the flight took place at the Modlin base, the airfield where the very first MiG 17 jets were accepted into Polish Air Force service. In commemoration of this high-profile final flight, the aircraft wore unique and extremely attractive markings, carrying the words ‘OSTATNI LOT’ (Last Flight) and ‘OSTATNI LIM’ (Last Lim) on either side of its fuselage and a beautiful tail design which was created by graphic artist Robert Gretzyngíera. This tail made reference to the 45 LED’s (experimental aircraft squadron) unit badge, including a stylised version of its ‘goose on the wing’ in the design and for those present on the day of the flight, this must have made for a memorable sight - an extremely attractive scheme to bid farewell to this Polish built Soviet jet classic.

 

Scheme B - PZL Lim-5, Jagdbombenfliegergeschwader 37 ‘Klement Gottwald’ (JBG-37), Luftstreitkfäfte der Nationalen Volksarmee, Drewitz Air Base, Deutsche Demokratische Republik (East Germany), 1986.

 

Another fascinating variant of the Mig-17 family, this East German Air Force machine was formerly used in the types more usual air defence role, but converted to combined fighter/ground support operations following the country’s adoption of the latest MiG-21 fighters. Concerned at their lack of coordinated close air support cooperation between land and air forces during the early Cold War period, a Warsaw Pact dictat implored all member states to establish such forces as a matter of some urgency. The MiG 17 and Polish Lim-5 had been assessed in a ground attack role, but was found to be unsuitable, however for cash strapped nations such as the DDR, this was the only suitable aircraft type available to them. In addition to this, assigning aircraft for this new role would strip squadrons of aircraft currently employed in an air defence capacity, something neither they nor the Soviet Union saw as being an acceptable situation.

 

Their opportunity to explore options came with the introduction of the spectacular MiG-21, an aircraft which had the performance to keep the West very much on their toes and the current pinnacle of Warsaw Pact aircraft technology. From the early 1960s onwards, the delivery of more MiG 21 fighters allowed the older Lim-5s to be reallocated to secondary roles and potentially, modification. Whilst their transition was taking place, Soviet and Polish engineers had been working on a plan to convert large numbers of the now relegated MiG 17/Lim-5 fighters to perform a fighter attack role, keeping aircraft numbers up, whilst at the same time increasing the effectiveness of their deterrent threat. Poland had been successful in producing an attack variant of the Lim-5, one which could not be described as an aircraft built for the task, but one which could do a job if required.

 

During the mid 1970s, all East German Air Force MiG 17 and Lim-5 jets which were still in a good state of serviceability, underwent conversion to give them a ground attack capability. These modifications included the addition of a pair of braced ordnance pylons under the inner wing root of each wing, similar to those fitted to the Polish Lim-6bis and Lim-6M fighter bombers. Omitting the brake parachute housing Polish aircraft featured, this conversion work was carried out by Flugzeugwerft Dresden, using fabricated component kits supplied by WSK PZL of Poland and would allow the aircraft to be operated with two Polis Mars-2 pods, each capable of firing sixteen 57mm unguided rocket projectiles, in addition to the jet’s already heavy cannon armament.

Operating at much lower altitudes, these ground support aircraft traded the bare metal of air defence Lim-5s for an attractive dark camouflage scheme and when beginning to show signs or weathering, these truly were some of the most appealing of the Cold War Warsaw Pact jets. Officially established in October 1971 in response to this new close air support requirement, Jagdbombenfliegergeschwader 31 (later to be redesignated JBG-37) had the distinction of being the first bomber squadron in the DDR and in their role of close air support, would never be too far away from any border hotspots. The rugged MiG 17 and Lim-5 aircraft they flew were well liked by their crews, tough and relatively easy to maintain, when flown at lower altitudes, these jets were capable of exceptional performance and could be quite a wild ride. Due to a lack of funds and the rate at which the aircraft burned additional fuel, the use of afterburner was strictly limited and only to be used in extreme circumstances.

 

Only the second individual kit release from this new tooling project which first arrived in model stores back in 2019, this latest PZL Lim-5 kit includes additional parts to allow this Polish licence built variant of the famous MiG-17 to be built in either of the above appealing scheme options. Currently scheduled for an Autumn release, we hope to have fully decorated built samples to bring you in a forthcoming edition of Workbench.

 

V.P.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Homebee

[Diego]

Here the markings on both sides, as first released by Hi-Decal:

 

 

 

[Mike Esposito]

any chance we will see a MiG 17PF? 

 

[Hook]

35 minutes ago, Mike Esposito said:

any chance we will see a MiG 17PF? 

 

Not without substantial changes to the molds, unfortunately.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

[modelldoc]

Look on the different rockets, an Egyptian version is possible.

 

modelldoc

[Diego]

On 8/28/2021 at 9:41 PM, modelldoc said:

Look on the different rockets, an Egyptian version is possible.

 

modelldoc

Of course, these are Sura (license build Hispano) rockets, as used on Egyptian MiG-17Fs, but also on MiG-15bis and Vampires  

Greetings

Diego

[Hook]

2 hours ago, Diego said:

Of course, these are Sura (license build Hispano) rockets, as used on Egyptian MiG-17Fs, but also on MiG-15bis and Vampires  

And also on IDF/AF Fouga Magisters after the capture of Egyptian stocks by the Israelis, I believe.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited August 30, 2021 by Hook

[Fukuryu]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:18 PM, Hook said:

And also on IDF/AF Fouga Magisters after the capture of Egyptian stocks by the Israelis, I believe.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

That's correct. They are also available by CMK, more accurately represented since they include the fins.

[Homebee]

Released - ref. A03092 - PZL Lim-5 "Fresco"

https://uk.airfix.com/products/lim-5-a03092

 

 

And the NVA LSK/LV tail flag colors are inverted !

 

 

V.P.

Edited November 11, 2021 by Homebee

[Homebee]

New boxing expected in Summer (August ?) 2024 - ref. A03091A - Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17F "Fresco"

Source: https://uk.airfix.com/products/mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17f-fresco-a03091a

 

 

V.P.

[klr]

4 minutes ago, Homebee said:

New boxing expected in Summer (August ?) 2024 - ref. A03091A - Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-17F "Fresco"

Source: https://uk.airfix.com/products/mikoyan-gurevich-mig-17f-fresco-a03091a

 

 

V.P.

As well as the long-secret "Area 51" aircraft in the box art, there is a an Egyptian AF subject, with pre-United Arab Republic roundels.