1/72 - Blackburn Buccaneer S.Mk.2 by Airfix - S.2C & S.2B released - new S.2B boxing

[Shane]

On 10/11/2019 at 4:25 AM, Dave Fleming said:

 

If the kits are stacked vertically, you can see what they are looking down,

 

Yep. That's the way we shelve new arrivals in the shop. Anyone taller than Frodo Baggins will see both box top and the side panel with decal options right side up

 

Shane

[Rabbit Leader]

7 minutes ago, Shane said:

Yep. That's the way we shelve new arrivals in the shop. Anyone taller than Frodo Baggins will see both box top and the side panel with decal options right side up

 

Shane

Where's your shop Shane? 

[Paul Thompson]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

Where's your shop Shane? 

Good question.

[Wez]

19 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

the crew figures and they look like small children

That's just how they behave

[Col.]

20 hours ago, Enzo Matrix said:

...The crew figures are really quite underscale!!!! ...they look like small children eating their tea in their high chairs before they go out for trick or treat...

Seems to be a constant problem for Airfix lately. Are all the design team a bunch stumpy geeks who constantly forgot their gym kit and hid indoors from the sun? Need a couple 6 foot plus members joining the staff to balance the averages out.

[Ratch]

We had a similar discussion about crew figures on the ATF recently. I thought this summed up the predicament succinctly:

Quote

The other problem with scale crewmen is that they don't have as much space as their living prototypes to fit into. This is most apparent in headroom, because an injected canopy that follows the correct external profile will, due to its thickness, be several inches lower inside than the polycarbon original. You can, of course, fit vacformed replacements which are generally closer to scale (if still marginally too thick), but the problems don't stop there. Fuselage sides suffer from the same problem (as becomes apparent if trying to fit resin sidepanels), so does the floor and items like the rudder bar, control column., and (the Gnat being a good example) the instrument panel. They all have to be made oversize in one dimension or another to have adequate stiffness and resilience, but that means they all eat into what was often a minimum volume for the human inhabitant(s) in the first place.

 

[Magua87]

I've got the last boxing of the old-mould Buccaneer (S2b/S2d/SMk50). Is there anything worth saving from that box for this new kit before I give it away / bin it (half-rescribed it before the new kit arrived!).

[Col.]

3 hours ago, Ratch said:

We had a similar discussion about crew figures on the ATF recently. I thought this summed up the predicament succinctly:

While this all makes sense I can't help thinking the figures in recent Airfix kits are nothing more than an afterthought and in no way proper integrated kit parts.

57 minutes ago, Magua87 said:

I've got the last boxing of the old-mould Buccaneer (S2b/S2d/SMk50). Is there anything worth saving from that box for this new kit before I give it away / bin it (half-rescribed it before the new kit arrived!).

Sure there's a few of us who would still be glad of the old mould kit as a project and also a source of spare parts  

[Geoff_B]

8 hours ago, Magua87 said:

I've got the last boxing of the old-mould Buccaneer (S2b/S2d/SMk50). Is there anything worth saving from that box for this new kit before I give it away / bin it (half-rescribed it before the new kit arrived!).

Yes

The later extra sprue with the Pylons and weapons for the Navy/Gulf War/SAAF options are quite usable, they can be used with the new kit, the decals are not to bad either. The original 1986 kit parts however have been pretty well superseded by the New Kit.

[Enzo the Magnificent]

If you do use the Paveway, make sure you thin the forward fins down or replace them altogether.  They should not look like planks.  The tail fins are perfectly fine.

[Shane]

On 10/16/2019 at 2:40 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

Where's your shop Shane? 

Don't work there any more unfortunately but currently Brisbane south side. A lot more south side than before. And there might not be enough shelf space to display boxes face on now 😞

 

 

Shane

[Shane]

On 10/16/2019 at 5:56 PM, Paul Thompson said:

Good question.

Now I only sell WW1 planes, Flutes. Too old for these jet things

 

Shane

[Tsrjoe]

nit picking, as I'm as happy as everyone else for a new Buccaneer kit, comparing the old and new kits (no comparison really) the wing fences on the older kit actually show a more accurate shape and are thinner than the rectangular blocks moulded on the recent kit. theres a prominent NACA intake missing on the upper engine shoulders too, the under surface has it depicted accurately (easily added with a scriber and scalpel) theres a few 'odd' raised panels which would benefit from paring down in thickness too to match photos, eg inner wing and just fwd of the airbrakes

[71chally]

I've only just noticed that the raised reinforcing plates for the rear engine nacelles underside mounted flare launchers seem to be molded in to the plastic. 

I don't think that these were present on most Buccaneers, certainly before a certain time frame?

 

I would file these off for a Royal Navy build at least.

 

From @canberra kid

 

[Dave Fleming]

RAF ones post-1982ish (First fitted for Op Pulsator IIRc)

[71chally]

Did all the RAF ones receive it from then on Dave?

I thought it was a limited number but could be wrong.

[Dave Fleming]

On 10/26/2019 at 9:24 AM, 71chally said:

Did all the RAF ones receive it from then on Dave?

I thought it was a limited number but could be wrong.

 

Not sure, it may have been a case of 'fitted for' but not fitted with.

[wadeocu]

On 10/26/2019 at 3:24 AM, 71chally said:

Did all the RAF ones receive it from then on Dave?

I thought it was a limited number but could be wrong.

I think you are right; only some got this update.  It was determined to be a less than ideal position for a flare dispenser and a different design was ultimately selected.   

 

XV361 was a Pulsator Bucc.  There are several things on this new kit that are faithful reproductions of XV361 as she exists now but not really accurate for the early 70s FAA Buccs depicted in the kit.  These primarily involve raised panels that are easy to sort out with a sanding stick. The raised shapes for the flare dispenser are a great example.  Not applicable for either scheme in the box.  There are also two raised circle panels under the wings that I think cover holes that are left for the long chord Martel capable pylons.  There are two long panels on either side of the fuselage just ahead of the airbrake that I have only seen on very late era Buccs (correction of earlier statement about preserved machines).  They are definitely present on XV361 as she exists now.  You can see them clearly in the many great walk-around photos that circulate.  

 

By the way, I think this is a fantastic kit.  The engineering really is quite clever; just like the original!!

Edited October 30, 2019 by wadeocu

[Geoff_B]

10 hours ago, wadeocu said:

I think you are right; only some got this update.  It was determined to be a less than ideal position for a flare dispenser and a different design was ultimately selected.   

 

XV361 was a Pulsator Bucc.  There are several things on this new kit that are faithful reproductions of XV361 as she exists now but not really accurate for the early 70s FAA Buccs depicted in the kit.  These primarily involve raised panels that are easy to sort out with a sanding stick. The raised shapes for the flare dispenser are a great example.  Not applicable for either scheme in the box.  There are also two raised circle panels under the wings that I think cover holes that are left for the long chord Martel capable pylons.  There are two long panels on either side of the fuselage just ahead of the airbrake that I have not seen on anything but a preserved aircraft.  They are definitely present on XV361 as she exists now.  You can see them clearly in the many great walk-around photos that circulate.  

 

By the way, I think this is a fantastic kit.  The engineering really is quite clever; just like the original!!

Yes Lidar is an excellent tool for the kit designer, but surely they need to do a bit more research and remove these late mods. Its fine if they chose to market as a Buccaneer at the end of its service with late schemes and weapons fit, but Like the Phantom they specifically targeted the FAA origins of the type but didn't do enough research which leaves feeling they were a bit half bottomed in their approach again. The engineering is interesting but I feel they should have included an inner score line for the lower wings, as it would be very easy for the less experienced modeler to make a hash of this.

Despite hoping for a 10/10 kit, especially after they set the lead designer on it where they used a nugget to do the Phantom, I can't help thinking they have come out with an 8/10 kit. The limited armament options (why provide an open bomb bay when you don't provide bombs to fill it !) makes me worry about the RAF boxing, it will have the bulged Bombay door, the universal pylons and the RWR for the Tail, the streamlined upper drop tank parts and that doesn't leave a great deal of room for alternative stores unless its just going to be the Gulf War fit. Anything more would require an additional sprue which would then put it up in price.

 

I still have 11 of the kits but some of these will have to await on the aftermarket boys to do the mods to allow an earlier S2, and a later S2D to be built along with expanding the armament options, just need somebody to do the decals to allow more of the 800 sqdn aircraft to be modelled. 

[Albeback52]

57 minutes ago, Geoff_B said:

 

57 minutes ago, Geoff_B said:

The limited armament options (why provide an open bomb bay when you don't provide bombs to fill it !) makes me worry about the RAF boxing, it will have the bulged Bombay door, the universal pylons and the RWR for the Tail, the streamlined upper drop tank parts and that doesn't leave a great deal of room for alternative stores unless its just going to be the Gulf War fit. Anything more would require an additional sprue which would then put it up in price.

 

I still have 11 of the kits but some of these will have to await on the aftermarket boys to do the mods to allow an earlier S2, and a later S2D to be built along with expanding the armament options.

 

Have to agree with you here. The rather miserable load provided is a big disappointment and, actually make the aircraft look naked.! Not a lot of bang for the Bucc!  (with the apologies for the terrible pun!😉)

An extra sprue providing a much more comprehensive range of ordnance may indeed have pushed the price up a bit but, surely nowhere near as much as a load of aftermarket accessories? Buying a load of aftermarket frippery  could double the cost of the kits

That's fine for those that can afford it but I am not personally inclined to fork out extra money for items that  ( in my view at least) should be included in the kit. My choice of course. At least I have recourse to a fairly well stocked spares box.

Lovely kit but, let down ( again , in my view )on this one aspect. Even the Phantom was better off!

Going back a few years,I was distinctly unimpressed with Airfix suggesting that we buy ( at another £14.99 on top of a £24.99 kit) a Bomber Resupply Set just provide something to hang on the bomb bay. Quite apart from the fact that one would then end up with load of potentially unwanted vehicles. Even the old 1981 Lancaster had a full bomb load!

 

Allan

Edited October 29, 2019 by Albeback52

[Ratch]

What a bunch of nit-pickers you come across as. How on earth can you expect a kit to cover all options to everyone, and of course, the option from the box is never the one that you personally wanted - I didn't want a c I wanted a b or the RAF one and I never wanted XV332 I wanted XV331 as it was on 4 April 1972 with the exact weapons load. Can I suggest that you leave Airfix for the masses who don't care about the minutia you find so intriguing and essential.

[71chally]

I think a bit harsh, and I don't think any other mainstream manufacturer would have boxed the Buccaneer much differently really.

The FAA Buccaneers just weren't seen with a great deal of weaponry as a regular occurrence.

Having said that, if a Gulf War specific jet is released it would be a bit woeful if the kit came without the appropriate weapons/stores for that campaign, and I would be surprised if that would happen.

 

The basic kit itself is outstanding in execution, and in no way can be compared to the preceding Phantom, the Japanese manufacturers may have got the panel details slightly tighter but not by much.  For me this is their second best 72nd kit after the Victor in detail, execution and parts breakdown.

 

Re the little details that get included by LIDAR processes, I guess it would be beneficial if after scanning a particular aircraft, that the developers at least have a quick look around other examples to see what may or may not have been fitted across types, but even that has its pitfuls when you rely on preserved airframes.

But in this case these are very minor details that have been molded in, and I would rather remove such things than have to add them.

Edited October 29, 2019 by 71chally

[Julien]

Maybe we need to keep these comments a bit more restrained please?

 

Accept the kit for what it is, a new tool Bucc and rejoice. If it takes a little bit of modelling skill to make your favorite one then go for it.

 

Julien

[Paul J]

Why wait for the RAF version boxing, plenty of alternative decals out there!

[sniperUK]

The Airfix team knew exactly what mods were on XV361, I spent three days with them when they were doing it , 361 is probably the most complete Bucc preserved, it is EXACTLY as flown int6 Langford Lodge by the RAF with nothing added or removed. 

It makes sense with the likes of the flare panels to mold them on and those who have the knowledge remove them with a few swipes of a sanding stick rather than as a separate insert with the problems that would crop up with that. 

Just got to painting stage with my first one and loving this accurate, easy to build kit.