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HMS Exeter colours - Battle of the River Plate


Soumcouy
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Hi

I wonder what were the colours of HMS Exeter at the time of the Battle of the River Plate. I believed it was overall light grey, but looking at the pictures of the return to home port, I am not so sure. The hull seems much darker than the bridge, and the turrets, and the torpedo tubes, almost white. Moroever, we can find in the IWM website an artwork from C. E. Cundall, painter, depicting the arrival at Plymouth after the River Plate action : the hull is medium grey, the superstructure is beige (beige ?) and light grey, the turrets and torpedo tubes are almost white, and the funnels seem buff. So, overall light grey, really ?

I am sure someone will help.

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She was overall 507C before and during the battle.

 

She was hastily and partially repainted in a patchwork of darker colours in the Falklands afterwards for her journey back to England to disguise the extent of the damage.

 

HTH

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Thanks a lot for this definitive answer about overall 507C and for the explanation about her patchwork style after the battle (she is much prettier in 507C by the way). Thanks for sharing this interesting photograph.

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The inimitable @dickrd has been quietly looking in and has provided this additional image which should prove categorically that Exeter was in overall 507C at the Battle of the River Plate:

 

d2e551b7-b54c-4635-a0a1-62a862f03528.jpg

 

Seen here bobbing about in the Falklands showing off the damage she collected.

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Logically not.  As these were for identification from the air, it would make sense for those on the aft turret to be read from the rear, i.e. port to starboard, whereas those at the front of the ship to be read from the front i.e starboard to port.   Given the third turret, then one could have been read from the side, fore to aft or vice versa.  However it seems that the RN did not entirely appreciate such elementary logic, and preferred to have them read from the bridge, despite this offering perhaps the poorest view to an aerial observer.

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I wonder if anyone has had a chance to compare the Trumpeter kit to the plans available from Profile Morskie? If they match then any errors in the plans will translate onto the model as I have a suspicion that Trumpeter may be using the Morskies as reference.

 

Mike.

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On 1/24/2019 at 3:40 PM, MikeR said:

I wonder if anyone has had a chance to compare the Trumpeter kit to the plans available from Profile Morskie? If they match then any errors in the plans will translate onto the model as I have a suspicion that Trumpeter may be using the Morskies as reference.

 

Mike.

 

I don't have the plans, but I suspect you're right about the source. It would make sense insomuch as Trumpeter copied Morskie's mistake about deck colour. Where Morskie appears to have mistaken the erected awnings in an aerial photograph for light coloured gun deck ahead of the bridge, Trumpeter has copied and provided no planking detail but instead called for beige paint - a fairly ridiculous notion if you think for a moment about what decks are for and what paints the Royal Navy actually used.

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  • 4 weeks later...

My Wife has just ordered me this new 1/350 Scale HMS Exeter, and I'm already impatient, can't wait for it to get here, and she'll be number 18 for my collection, the smallest being one of the smaller Mirage Corvette's, it was the HMS Anchusa, but with my favourite all time film being the Cruel Sea, I had to put on Decals K49, and then onto the biggest Ship in my collection USS Enterprise CVN-65, which I'm still working on, and have been for a long time, but I'll get her completed, one day

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  • 2 weeks later...

Have to say, when my Wife told me she had ordered the HMS Exeter from China, I was just a little worried as to how long it would take to get here, but I shouldn't have, she ordered the Kit 20th February and it arrived today 1st March, now that's a quick delivery

 

I'm now ready to start building, but my problem is, finding either a wooden deck, or, the correct colour of Paint for the Deck, it says Tan, and I used this Tan colour on one of the Lord Nelson Kit's I built, first go was rubbish, so I binned it and started again, and got what can only be described as a passable version, and so

 

Can I have as much advice as possible on the Paint Deck Colour, I really would appreciate any and all help possible

Thank You

Edited by Papa4ways
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  • 2 months later...

Hi Papa, I use normally Colourcoats “C01 Teak” (Sovereignhobbies.co.uk), there is also Tamiya’s XF-78 Wooden Deck Tan (which has a tad of pinkish color in my opinion).

 

Marco

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On 1/10/2019 at 8:56 PM, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

The inimitable @dickrd has been quietly looking in and has provided this additional image which should prove categorically that Exeter was in overall 507C at the Battle of the River Plate:

 

d2e551b7-b54c-4635-a0a1-62a862f03528.jpg

 

Seen here bobbing about in the Falklands showing off the damage she collected.

That is a very evocative shot, especially for anyone familiar with the Falklands; I know exactly where that was taken!  She got a bit of a kicking, didn’t she?

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  • 1 year later...

I have a doubt about the deck that is located below the airplanes catapult deck, as shown in the following picture (the deck between the hydroplane's wingtip and the boat):

 

mNLHgdel.jpg

 

This deck is represented in Trumpeter´s kit (1/350) as solid deck, extra dark gray, no planking.  But I see planking there, similar to the lower deck and quite different from the extra dark gray clearly seen on the aft superstructure.  

   I am still in time to scribe the planking on that deck, haven´t painted the dark gray yet, as I did with the deck in front of the bridge, but would appreciate second opinions.

gBvO2jwl.jpg

 

Marco

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1 hour ago, Marco1965 said:

I have a doubt about the deck that is located below the airplanes catapult deck, as shown in the following picture (the deck between the hydroplane's wingtip and the boat):

 

mNLHgdel.jpg

 

This deck is represented in Trumpeter´s kit (1/350) as solid deck, extra dark gray, no planking.  But I see planking there, similar to the lower deck and quite different from the extra dark gray clearly seen on the aft superstructure.  

   I am still in time to scribe the planking on that deck, haven´t painted the dark gray yet, as I did with the deck in front of the bridge, but would appreciate second opinions.

 

 

Marco

 

That photo looks like the one of Exeter at Balboa in Friedman's British Cruisers (page 120. The whole photo shows a clear change in tone between this deck and the planked section at the forward funnel, which matches the plan (page 118). The relative darkness of the grey versus the superstructure could be due to light, re-painting, or extra wear. But I accept it does look very like the deck below, which was planked.

 

This deck was planked in HMS York (British Cruisers page 109) but she was built with the catapult forward, it was moved aft later. A planked catapult deck would be unusual for a RN Cruiser as built, maybe due to fire hazard?

So on balance I'd say this deck on Exeter was bare metal, but this may be one of those ones where you find the evidence the week after it can't be changed...

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I have one other photograph which shows a snippet of this deck in fairly high resolution and I am wondering if I do agree with you Marco.

 

I'll upload it tomorrow from my PC.

 

I have one which would have been perfect and conclusive had the boat davits been slung outboard out of the way. As it is you are looking obliquely down at the deck but the deck itself is obscured by a boat and you can see sailors from the chest up 🙄🙄

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Thank you, dying to see that picture tomorrow, Jamie!  And here goes the whole perspective amidships, different tones of gray.  The boat deck around the funnels is quite darker, as is the aft superstructure and the catapult deck.  Interesting that the planked deck of the secondary armament is quite light, while the one being questioned, below the airplane catapult deck, is darker, but looks planked to me.  If I scribe my model, a picture will show up showing it was not planked, and vice-versa, that happens normally within weeks, if not days, of the update becoming irreversible.

Z58zfIjh.jpg

Marco

Edited by Marco1965
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TallBlondJohn wrote "... HMS York ... was built with the catapult forward ..."; where was it situated please?  The only photos I have seen of her show either no catapult at all, or a catapult (EIIH, later replaced by SIH) between the after funnel and the after superstructure, and I can't work out where else one might have been fitted.  The original design included a light catapult on "B" main armament turret, but all the references I know of say it was never fitted.  Are there any photos of a catapult forward?

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12 hours ago, Our Ned said:

TallBlondJohn wrote "... HMS York ... was built with the catapult forward ..."; where was it situated please?  The only photos I have seen of her show either no catapult at all, or a catapult (EIIH, later replaced by SIH) between the after funnel and the after superstructure, and I can't work out where else one might have been fitted.  The original design included a light catapult on "B" main armament turret, but all the references I know of say it was never fitted.  Are there any photos of a catapult forward?

 

The turret catapult was what I meant. My theory - which may be wrong - is that RN cruisers didn't have planked catapult decks (probably to reduce fire risk) as built - the only cases I can think of are where the catapult was added later. Which brings up the case of York - she had a planked deck around her aft catapult. The idea was to have a catapult on B turret, but of course that catapult didn't work out - the light catapult design was never even finalised. A heavy catapult was planned aft, but wasn't fitted until her first refit in 1931. So the theory holds (for now).

 

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@Marco1965 annoyingly the sun awnings are erected, but you can, I believe, see evidence of planking at the aft end of the deck on both port and starboard, and I think there's evidence of planks forward on the starboard side. What do you think?

 

resized_a8b948ed-f0ac-46fc-af3a-493a80a2

 

resized_def0d767-a48f-4d29-b16e-e784fe0f

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8 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

@Marco1965 annoyingly the sun awnings are erected, but you can, I believe, see evidence of planking at the aft end of the deck on both port and starboard, and I think there's evidence of planks forward on the starboard side. What do you think?

 

 

 

I'd say that's planked, but where does the blanking stop and the bare deck around the aft funnel start? Just in front of the catapult base?

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11 minutes ago, TallBlondJohn said:

 

I'd say that's planked, but where does the blanking stop and the bare deck around the aft funnel start? Just in front of the catapult base?

 

It's very hard to say with various obstructions including the catapults as well as shadows, however, comparing my version of Marco's photograph which is quite high resolution with my plan-view photograph above, I think the demarcation runs straight straight transversely level with the forward bulkhead of the deckhouse, which incidentally is the point where the deck narrows.

resized_4782a5e2-fc41-4c38-b6d2-b8de546a

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