Another colour question - Italian this time

[pigsty]

Next in line is a 1/35 Leopard 1A2, which I plan to finish in Italian Army colours.  The instructions suggest FS 34087 (which Humbrol claimed was 155).  This seems suspect to me, for two reasons: (i) FS colours don't seem right for European armour, and (ii) the instructions claim FS 34087 for the German option too, and I know that should be Gelboliv, which 155 can't match.

 

So, does anyone have a better match?

[JosephLalor]

Could the Italian army have gone with the RAL standard? I've an idea that the Canadians did so with their Leopards, but await correction on that point.

 

For the Heer option I would probably use Xtracolor X251.

[Giorgio N]

Sorry to have seen this post only now, hope it's not too late...

The colour used for most of the life of the Leopard in Italian service was simply known as Nato green within the Army and had been introduced in the mid '70s. This colour was the equivalent of Fiat colour 385, that had replaced in service a previous colour coded Fiat 567.. that itself had replaced in the early '60s the previous Fiat 565.

According to some sources Fiat 385 is the same as RAL 6014, that was the colour used by the German Army so maybe the instructions are correct in proposing the same colour for both users... just not the right colour.

That is for the standards, now to the actual vehicles... Italian Army tanks and other vehicles in the '80s were in a dark yellow-olive with a greysh tinge  when new but then faded to a lighter grey-green. Personally I always found Humbrol 66 not too far from the brand new colour, with older vehicles tending toward humbrol 120.. and then becoming even greyer. Mind, H66 is very dark and on a scale model may not look right. In reality in most lines of tanks or trucks it was hard to find two identical greens, something that was exacerbated by the repaints made at unit level: the paint was delivered in tins to which thinner had to be added and as in those years this was a conscript army the level of consistency could vary wildly. It should be said that when I served there was also likely a mix of vehicles painted with older paints and others with the newer low IR-reflectivity paints that had a more matt and lighter appearance even when the standard was supposed to be the same

In many units there was also the habit of "polishing" the paint with diesel for parades and similar event, with the result that the colour tended to become darker and more shiny. There are stories that some unit commanders requested black to be mixed to the paint to have a darker appearance, that itself may have led to tanks even darker than the original standard. These practices stopped when the newer low IR-reflectivity paints arrived.. or at least should have stopped.

Not applicable to tanks, but tyres were also polished for parades and I have less than great memories of spending time polishing the tyres of the battalion trucks using shoepolish a brushes....

 

[pigsty]

Blimey!  Humbrol 66 and Humbrol 120 are a long way apart.  I posted the same question on Armorama and was directed to Humbrol 86, light olive, which was (i) between those other two, (ii) like some images I've seen on-line, and above all (iii) in my tool box.  With the usual weathering it won't look much like 86 any more, but I'm happy with the results so far; I'm finding it a very blue shade of green, so in weathering it I'm adding brown and a yellower green.  And I'm using 120 just for the dry-brushing!  There will be pictures eventually, to make all this clear.

[Giorgio N]

12 hours ago, pigsty said:

Blimey!  Humbrol 66 and Humbrol 120 are a long way apart.  I posted the same question on Armorama and was directed to Humbrol 86, light olive, which was (i) between those other two, (ii) like some images I've seen on-line, and above all (iii) in my tool box.  With the usual weathering it won't look much like 86 any more, but I'm happy with the results so far; I'm finding it a very blue shade of green, so in weathering it I'm adding brown and a yellower green.  And I'm using 120 just for the dry-brushing!  There will be pictures eventually, to make all this clear.

 

Aaarrghhh.... my mistake, I didn't realise I wrote Humbrol 120... I meant 102, that is a medium olive colour. Sorry about that, 120 and 102 are very different colours. 120 is nothing like the colour I had in mind. Of course I mean 102 as in the old good quality humbrol paints, don't know how this could have become over time

I have a tin of 86 and mine is not particularly blue but is indeed not a bad match for a weathered paint as used on these tanks so could well be a good starting point

[pigsty]

10 hours ago, Giorgio N said:

mine is not particularly blue

Well, it's not azure, but if I found an olive that colour, I'd spit it out.