Adam Poultney Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 (edited) Building an Airfix Lancaster, it's the bi/biii kit. I'm building it as a Lancaster biii. In the instructions the part numbers for the rear of the fuselage immediately before the rear turret are swapped compared to what is shown in the diagram. For option A (bi), the instructions say to use parts F15 and F16, while showing parts D3 and D4. For option B (biii), which I am building, it says to use parts D3 and D4, while showing parts F15 and F16. Which parts are correct for the Lancaster biii? Parts D3 and D4 are in reality smooth without panel lines, and F15 and F16 have pannel lines, and a different structure on the inside. Edited January 3, 2019 by Adam Poultney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Hi Adam, firstly, which boxing, I'm assuming it's the newest one? If so, I'll have a look at mine for you. Here's where I show my ignorance, because the only difference between the B.Mk.I and B.Mk.III as far as I know, were the engines. R.R. Merlins in the Mk.I and Packard Merlins in the Mk.III as first built, not saying that some didn't get changed out. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) I have been looking at the new release of this kit here: https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Avro-Lancaster-B.1-B-III.html Parts D3 & D4 are the halves of the fuselage fairing for the tail turret. I cannot find any parts in the F range and there is no alternative parts for the fairing, so I do not know what it is you are looking at. Chris Edited January 4, 2019 by dogsbody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJP Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I believe the turret fairing came in a couple of different forms so perhaps that's where the problem is. Which kit number are we dealing with? Airfix have offered several Lancasters over the years and there are kit differences although as Chris noted D3 and D4 are for the current one. FWIW both Hasegawa and Revell Germany had alternative parts for the exact same area in their kits. In general it's useful to know that, as noted above, the essential difference between a Mk I and a Mk III was the engine fit. This extends to the Canadian production Mk X and all three were visually identical. A modeller able to tell one from another without a serial check qualifies for a job as a chicken sexer. That said, the Lancaster had any number of incremental changes that were, or could be, applied across the marks. Turrets and blisters, props and bomb bay doors to name just the most obvious. The common dictum of building to a photo applies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhantomBigStu Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) at least for the first 3 boxings all point to parts d3 and d4 for the rear turret, however Airfix inconveniently don’t have the insurrections up for the latest so without buying it can’t comment, perhaps the parts described are correct but they have been lazy and only changed the part callout and not the image? Edited January 4, 2019 by PhantomBigStu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 13 hours ago, PhoenixII said: Hi Adam, firstly, which boxing, I'm assuming it's the newest one? If so, I'll have a look at mine for you. Here's where I show my ignorance, because the only difference between the B.Mk.I and B.Mk.III as far as I know, were the engines. R.R. Merlins in the Mk.I and Packard Merlins in the Mk.III as first built, not saying that some didn't get changed out. Paul No not the newest one, it's the one with the white lanc bi on the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 10 hours ago, RJP said: I believe the turret fairing came in a couple of different forms so perhaps that's where the problem is. Which kit number are we dealing with? Airfix have offered several Lancasters over the years and there are kit differences although as Chris noted D3 and D4 are for the current one. FWIW both Hasegawa and Revell Germany had alternative parts for the exact same area in their kits. In general it's useful to know that, as noted above, the essential difference between a Mk I and a Mk III was the engine fit. This extends to the Canadian production Mk X and all three were visually identical. A modeller able to tell one from another without a serial check qualifies for a job as a chicken sexer. That said, the Lancaster had any number of incremental changes that were, or could be, applied across the marks. Turrets and blisters, props and bomb bay doors to name just the most obvious. The common dictum of building to a photo applies. https://www.scalemates.com/kits/253776-airfix-a08013-avro-lancaster-b-1-f-e-b-iii This boxing. I think f15 and f16 (labelled incorrectly as d3 and d4 in the instructions) are correct for option b, but I'm not sure 13 hours ago, dogsbody said: I have been looking at the new release of this kit here: https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Avro-Lancaster-B.1-B-III.html Parts D3 & D4 are the halves of the fuselage fairing for the tail turret. I cannot find any parts in the F range and there is no alternative parts for the fairing, so I do not know what it is you are looking at. Chris https://www.scalemates.com/kits/253776-airfix-a08013-avro-lancaster-b-1-f-e-b-iii The instructions are available here. The two different fairings have the wrong part numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixII Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Hi Adam, firstly, I don't have the B.Mk.I (FE) / B.Mk.III in the stash, just the B.Mk.II. Having had a look at the distructions on Scalemates, assume your refering to instruction section 88a & 88b? Don't get too hung up on the part numbers. Both are the aft turret fairing, one for the F.N. turret (4x .303) B.III, the other is for the Rose turret (2x .50 cal) B.I(FE) My suggestion is to 'look right' to assembly instructions 89a & 89b which may help, or try each against the respective turrets. Remembering the B.III used the F.N. turret. (4 gun) Found this photo of a B.Mk.I (FE) :- https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/e9/ef/8fe9efce01f7bea7beb7461ecfcba9e4.jpg along with a profile of the same aircraft, fitted with a Rose. There's also this Airfix CAD render :- https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1356/4477/products/a08013-detail-3_2048x2048.jpg?v=1473964887 of the model, which may help explain things? HTH Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Ah, yes. I see now. As I only have the B.II kit, it only has Parts D3&4. Without seeing both bits up close, I can't say what the difference is between them. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I see that Paul has slipped in a post just before mine. I now see it clearly on the instructions. Fairing parts F15 & 16 go with the two-gun tail turret while fairing parts D3 & 4 go with the standard four-gun tail turret. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 I don't have these kits, but as I understood it the twin gun turret is not the Rose which is very bulbous but the late war FN one. Quite what that means for the fairing I haven't the faintest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 4 hours ago, PhoenixII said: Hi Adam, firstly, I don't have the B.Mk.I (FE) / B.Mk.III in the stash, just the B.Mk.II. Having had a look at the distructions on Scalemates, assume your refering to instruction section 88a & 88b? Don't get too hung up on the part numbers. Both are the aft turret fairing, one for the F.N. turret (4x .303) B.III, the other is for the Rose turret (2x .50 cal) B.I(FE) My suggestion is to 'look right' to assembly instructions 89a & 89b which may help, or try each against the respective turrets. Remembering the B.III used the F.N. turret. (4 gun) Found this photo of a B.Mk.I (FE) :- https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/e9/ef/8fe9efce01f7bea7beb7461ecfcba9e4.jpg along with a profile of the same aircraft, fitted with a Rose. There's also this Airfix CAD render :- https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1356/4477/products/a08013-detail-3_2048x2048.jpg?v=1473964887 of the model, which may help explain things? HTH Paul My aircraft uses the 4 gun turret 4 hours ago, dogsbody said: Ah, yes. I see now. As I only have the B.II kit, it only has Parts D3&4. Without seeing both bits up close, I can't say what the difference is between them. Chris One pair has an internal wall of some sort and panel lines, the other is just smooth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WV908 Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 (edited) Hi Adam - only the very early B.I’s had the parallel turret fairing, so unless you are building a very early production Lanc (first few batches) you want the flared fairing. Saying that though, most early B.I’s that survived long enough to have refits gained the flared fairing anyway - prime examples being R5868 and W4783 IIRC, the mod was all to do with airflow deflection issues over the turret There is more info on this on one of the HK Lancaster threads and elsewhere on the site Cheers, WV908 Edited January 4, 2019 by WV908 More info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 4 hours ago, WV908 said: Hi Adam - only the very early B.I’s had the parallel turret fairing, so unless you are building a very early production Lanc (first few batches) you want the flared fairing. Saying that though, most early B.I’s that survived long enough to have refits gained the flared fairing anyway - prime examples being R5868 and W4783 IIRC, the mod was all to do with airflow deflection issues over the turret There is more info on this on one of the HK Lancaster threads and elsewhere on the site Cheers, WV908 Which one's the flared one? I'm building ED989, a mid 1943 biii, which was shot down over Peenemunde Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Adam Poultney said: Which one's the flared one? I'm building ED989, a mid 1943 biii, which was shot down over Peenemunde Temporarily stick them together, take a picture and post it here. Then we can see them and help make a decision. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WV908 Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Adam Poultney said: Which one's the flared one? I'm building ED989, a mid 1943 biii, which was shot down over Peenemunde The flared one is wider at the back than at the front - the front will be the fuselage profile and the rear will be the turret profile. For your chosen airframe you’ll want the flared fairing Cheers, WV908 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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