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Bandsaw Steve

RMS Carpathia, Scratchbuild, 1/500 Scale

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Gidday Steve, You're certainly putting much thought, planning and effort into the sea pattern. Your second last photo, I didn't think it was rude at all. I thought it was just a giant squid. And the extra two knots of speed, put it down to inflation over the years (or GST). 

 

And an iceberg?      Errr, wrong ship Steve!

 

Regards, Jeff.

Edited by ArnoldAmbrose

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3 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Given that Carpathia probably had an absolute maximum speed of about 17 knots I have modelled this ship travelling a bit too fast.

 

You could argue that it's going downhill at this particular point!

 

 

3 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

but carried on with some more white and now I think I might have overdone it...

 

oh, I dunno... with a bit of weathering and so forth I think it'll come alright on the night

 

 

3 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

and sorry about all the delays,

 

apology accepted but don't let it happen again or Martian may slap you round the head with his tentacles

 

 

1 hour ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

I have seriously considered adding an iceberg but am unsure that I could make a convincing one. ❄️

 

Given the skills you have displayed in this and other builds I am pretty convinced you could pull it off - at least worth a try.  Maybe not a full iceberg but a couple of floating ice patches (apparently called brash ice! though I think the bit of ice that whacked the Titanic was being a bit more than brash at the time )

 

 

nice update once again Steve.

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Hi Steve

 

That's looking much better Steve, and no, I don't think you've overdone it, I think you need a bit more of the Japanese grey/green and some white as per below.

The wake pattern shape is much improved, and looks even better under acoat of paint. I wouldn't worry too much about the transverse wave length, you're in the ball park and who's to know the top speed was 17 knots?  She's racing in to pick up survivors.

 

Take another look at the photo's on Steel Navy,

look at fig 3, and note the boundary layer of turbulent water that runs down the parallel side of the ship, approx 6 ft out (4mm in 1/500 scale). It's white next to the hull blending to green then blue. I'd stipple white over the green and onto the blue to break up the straight lines. Check fig 2 for the effect along the length of the hull.

 

now look at fig 5, and immediately behind the ridge of the breaking bow waves is a line of your green under the white foam.

White on the leading top edge of the wave blending to green then blue.

Again I'd stipple white on top of this to break up the lines, representing vestiges of foam on the surface

Repeat for the other divergent bow waves, moving outboard and reducing the intensity as you move aft.

Also note in fig 5, there is a band of surface foam  between 1/3 and 1 beam width out from and parallel to the side of the ship, to where the breaking bow wave stops.

For the stippling i'd use a stiff short haired brush or sponge (or a combination of both) barely loaded with paint.

Start where the foam is densest and work out / back, I'd practice on scrap dark paper to get the right amount of paint for the desired result first.

As the sea was supposed to have been pretty much flat calm, I wouldn't do anything with the sea forward of the wake except maybe a light coating of satin varnish to give it a slight sheen (water isn't glossy until you get right up close).

 

Dave

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8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Good point Martian,

I have seriously considered adding an iceberg but am unsure that I could make a convincing one. ❄️

I think we both know we are not talking about icebergs.

 

Martian of the Slapping Tentacles👽

 

PS: Have you told Mrs Bandsaw that she will be required to dress up as Kate Winslet for the grand turning on of the illuminations?

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On 20/03/2019 at 22:14, ArnoldAmbrose said:

 

 

And an iceberg?      Errr, wrong ship Steve!

 

Regards, Jeff.

 Well actually not quite...

 

Here’s a quote from page 161 of Jay  Ludowyke’s book ‘Carpathia’

 

’In the dark hours before Dawn Thia (Carpathia) passes iceberg after iceberg, picking her way through like a snake’ 

 

There was, I believe, a very real chance that two ships could have been lost that night. Fortunately, despite some close calls, Carpathia arrived at the rescue scene undamaged.

 

One thing I appreciate much more clearly now than before starting this project is that the iceberg that Titanic struck was not some isolated ‘rogue’. According to Ludowyke’s book (page 194)

 

‘The officer he (Captain Rostron) sent to top of the wheelhouse reports back that he counted 25 icebergs over 200 feet high and dozens more between fifty and one hundred and fifty feet high. There were too many growlers to count.’

 

Titanic ran into an iceberg - but she sailed into an ice field! And so too did Carpathia.

 

 

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On 21/03/2019 at 06:19, Martian Hale said:

 

 

PS: Have you told Mrs Bandsaw that she will be required to dress up as Kate Winslet 

She’s well accustomed to that particular request! 🤫

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Gidday Steve, I haven't read the book yet but it is next on my "to do" list, book wise. And I admit I spoke in ignorance. You've got me thinking (a rare occurrence) if conditions are right for one iceberg they must be right for many. And I've never questioned the courage of Carpathia's captain, and crew (all in the same boat, literally) for steaming flat-out into danger that night. Regards, Jeff.

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Hi Arnold,

 

The book is worth a read, but in my opinion it is very stangely written and the odd style makes me doubt how authoritative it can be considered. I won’t go into details now but will be interested in your thoughts once you’ve completed it.

 

Steve

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Hi Brian,

 

 Thanks for the interest. 

You are most welcome to follow along (or at least you were until that lights comment.) 😡

 

Steve

 

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1 hour ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

I've never questioned the courage of Carpathia's captain, and crew (all in the same boat, literally) for steaming flat-out into danger that night. Regards, Jeff.

Hear, Hear! 

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Black and White (and Tan and Red)

 

This one is all going to be about colours and masking and painting and stuff.

 

The observant among you will have noticed that a few posts back the deck was painted in a darkish yellow shade. This was an unremarkable piece of airbrushing that I chose not to share with the world, but on reflection  I was not happy with the shade as looked too dark. So here it has been replaced with 'Mr Hobby 85 - Acrylic - Sail Color' which I think looks much better.

 

I've also sprayed the bottom half of the hull white.

 

T8mhqTc.jpg

 

Now comes the bit where I have to paint the upright parts of the superstructure white while maintaining a nice clean line with the horizontal deck tan.

 

This is the one part of ship modelling that remains a complete mystery to me and I urge anyone who knows how to do this to write in. Specifically, how do ship modellers get this demarcation- between horizontal deck and upright superstructure- so tidy so consistently?

 

It seems that the know-how regarding this is either a well-kept secret in ship-building circles or on the other hand is so well known that no-one ever bothers discussing it at all. Either way, I'm on the outer.  Often in maritime WIP threads this step just seems to get 'skipped over' with a 'here it is after I've brilliantly painted the deck and the superstructure' photo with no explanation regarding how it's been done. 

 

Now it could be that this is done with very careful and extensive masking. but if that's the case how come I rarely see pictures on this forum of ships covered in masking?  Eh! - How come Eh!?! What are you people hiding...  🤬  Besides - detailed masking is notoriously tedious and there are just so many complex shapes on a ship that it would take forever.  On the other hand maybe people are just very good with a paintbrush and hand paint using a steady hand and a keen eye. 

 

After a brief flirtation with masking I decided I couldn't be bothered with it - too much work and too boring - and so I had a go at hand brushing.  No pictures of the actual painting in progress I'm afraid because both hands were in use at the time.

 

It kind of worked - but the contact between the deck and the superstructure (white) is still a bit rough and ready.

 

qelLzSf.jpg

 

Same here, the demarcation between the two colours is a bit sharper here but you can still see where the capillary action has drawn the paint around the base of the structure - so it's by no means the best example of this kind of work.   Come on Britmodeller maritime folks - I need to know your secrets... they are safe with me I'll only tell everyone.

 

94ogF0M.jpg

 

Anyhow - now it's back to the hull and there's no doubt about what has to happen here.  First use some Aizu tape to mark off the plimsoll line (I think that's the right term for the white line that runs the length of the ship's waterline).  Burr the tape down hard into position so that there's minimal chance for bleed-under.

 

ZsvUbuB.jpg

 

Once that tape is on spray white over it again. This should ensure that if there is still any bleeding-under it will be white on white, it also helps to hold the tape exactly in the same spot throughout the painting to come.

Now we need to pick some appropriate red for the hull.  Italian Air Force Red Mimetico 1 is the obvious choice... :penguin:

 

PRtJ10z.jpg

 

Looks OK to me...

 

fj3DM43.jpg

 

And now it's time to mask off the red area and the decks and superstructure...

 

2ao3ohL.jpg

 

and hit the hull with some Tamiya NATO Black from a rattle can.

 

SwaDsbb.jpg

 

Looks OK. 

 

RdIOdgS.jpg

 

And now for the best bit - peeling off the masking. Masking may be a tedious job but this bit makes it all worthwhile.

 

PZmupBF.jpg

 

And this bit's even better...

 

U6ZwqhO.jpg

 

So now let's stick the ship back in the oggin and see whether the colours go well together...

 

tzWW8ir.jpg

 

😁  Hmmm, I think they do.  I'm happy with this - but I think that the sea-scape is going to get a bit more attention in the near future.

 

Am travelling for work for most of this week so unlikely to get any updates on here until next weekend.

 

Until then - Kia Kaha...

Bandsaw Steve

 

 

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Gidday Steve, Have you considered painting each deck-house or deck level in the superstructure before attaching them? Particularly as you are working in wood. Probably too late for Carpathia though.

     When it comes to painting a ship I'm still in the dark ages, enamels done with a hairy stick. I like the way your hull has turned out. I rather liked the way you painted a deck, masked it then painted the ship's side. I'm talking about the clean hull here, not superstructures with fittings.

     All my ships to date are plastic kits, with the possible exception of my current build which has a lot of scratchbuilding. All my edges are done by hand and I'm afraid they sometimes look it. The edge between a bulkhead and the deck above (walls and floors for you non-nautical land-lubber types) is usually not difficult if there is a sharp edge and I can brush outwards or upwards. The edge between a bulkhead and the deck below is the difficult bit I find. That's where lockers, ventilators, hawser reels etc get in the way. If a bulkhead is attached to the deck below, as many plastic kits are there is not much I can suggest, except what you've already done here. But if the bulkhead is attached to the deck above I often paint that assembly before gluing them down to the deck below, leaving some unpainted deck where the glue will do its thing. Not a problem for wood models such as yours I wouldn't think. As the entire superstructure of my current model is scratch built I have tried to do this as much as I can to get nice clean painted edges. Also with fittings such as lockers etc I paint both them and deck their required colours and then attach them by using a bit of styrene rod through fitting and deck. Like dowel in furniture making. This saves issues with glue not sticking to painted decks.

     I hope this helps. This is my secret so please don't tell anyone! Not even the Martian!

 

Regards, Jeff.

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Hmmmm...  

 

All good points Jeff. So basically I need to think more clearly about the construction sequence and work the painting sequence into the schedule earlier and more carefully.

 

Alternatively I could go back to doing aeroplanes! 😀

 

 

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Gidday Steve, who was it that said "Don't give up the ship!"

     It has taken me about two dozen ships to work all that out, and a lot of it depends on the individual vessel and so is not always possible. I tend to paint as I build but that is my personal preference. I have seen others complete the construction before painting anything and their builds turn out very good. To each their own method. What I've said above is just what suits me. I like the way Carpathia is turning out. And I've started the book. Regards, Jeff.

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the only suggestion I can think of is to paint the upright/vertical surfaces first.   

I find it's a bit easier to keep a straight line on a flat surface meeting a vertical surface as opposed keeping a straight line on a vertical surface meeting a flat surface. Gravity helps a little bit in the first instance and fights you in the second instance

 

Would liquid mask be of any use here ?   I've only tried it once and found it a bit too gloopy and not very good for fine detail (but never tried thinning it)

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8 hours ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

Often in maritime WIP threads this step just seems to get 'skipped over' with a 'here it is after I've brilliantly painted the deck and the superstructure' photo with no explanation regarding how it's been done.

I tend to agree with you Steve. I have only built and painted one launch and I, like Jeff says, painted a lot of it separately, and where I had to, masked areas like an aircraft. I must admit I'm not looking forward to painting my 1/700 destroyers.

Keep at it Steve.

 

Stuart

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That start to look quite impressive Steve, I admire your progress. That sea will look fantastic when painted (heck, it looks great even now)

I got no experience with modern time modelling ( not knowing what’s tools available nowadays)

I still think I’d go for masking. In my younger days I did quite a bit of watercolours and gouache paintings and used somethning like liquid rubber for masking. You just applied it with a brush and  afterwards you just peeled it off, just like that. Easy and clean.

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I do know people who mask everything and spray but I find that my masking is so ineffective most of the time that it wouldn't work anyway.  SO I tend to get the larger bits of hull/superstructure together, spray the ship's side/whatever superstructure I have fitted, then mask for the boot topping and spray that.  Then its down to a hairy stick and a steady hand to brush paint the decks.

 

BTW, the white line is not the Plimsoll Line although it effectively showing the same information, i.e. the ship's waterline.  The Plimsoll Line to be exact is the circle with a horizontal lime usually painted on the ships side amidships which shows the waterline when at maximum draught 

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59 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

Then its down to a hairy stick and a steady hand to brush paint the decks.

 

Yes, that’s the conclusion I came to as well - perhaps I need a steadier hand. 🙂

 

1 hour ago, Chewbacca said:

 

 

BTW, the white line is not the Plimsoll Line although it effectively showing the same information, i.e. the ship's waterline.  The Plimsoll Line to be exact is the circle with a horizontal lime usually painted on the ships side amidships which shows the waterline when at maximum draught 

Yes. I thought I might have been out of my depth using that term (geddit? Out of my depth! Geddit?) so just this morning I was doing a bit of research on the plimsoll line and found that - strictly speaking - my usage of the term was incorrect for exactly the reason you have pointed out. With such sloppy use of technical terminology I think I might have a future in journalism. 

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38 minutes ago, Bandsaw Steve said:

... With such sloppy use of technical terminology I think I might have a future in journalism. ...

... or politics. :rolleyes:

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2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

stop thinking about Kate Winslet so much

God knows how I have tried! 🥺

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