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Trenton guy

RLM 83 Dunkelblau ?

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I have the AK book out of pure interest, the paints samples are far from ideal as the printed color chips aren’t real paint paintchips.

They also say that for fighters not using the meditiranian sea scheme you should be using the green whether this is the so called wrong version of Rlm 83 or another dark green...

When you do a mediteranian sea scheme you probably should opt for the rlm83 blue one ...

This is because it is probably a color variation of one of the greens then in use...so is rlm 83 green the wrong one for the version you build as a fighter?

Well probably not, only the name is wrong as i read it!!

In my case i still be using the socalled wrong one for my Rlm 83 scheme on my Me262 as this will be most likely the right color with a wrong name..

 

Can we still follow it ?

 

Nevertheless the AK book is still an interesting read with a lot of equally interesting pictures and i can recommend to all..

I also have the original first Monogram book on german colors and this is with the new AK book a valuable  source of info for me regarding these colors and schemes as the AK book has nice info that complements the Monogram one..

Hope this helps..

 

cheers, Jan

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On 12/28/2018 at 5:33 PM, Trenton guy said:

Sundun describes RLM 83 as being an overwater color. Both aircraft illustrated in the scheme are Ju-88’s in naval roles. Has anyone seen or heard of any other support for RLM 83 being “Dunkelblau”? Would make a fun model, if there is some additional basis for it.

 

 

Sunndinbombers.jpg

 

 

A number of noted colours 'experts' (Michael Ullmann and David E.Brown ) work with Claes on his books. Claes told me that the decision was made to "explore" via a couple of artworks the ''recently discovered marine camouflage incorporating RLM Dunkelblau 83.."   Elements of at least five Ju 88 bomber units were stationed in Italy around the summer of 1943. Some of these were also - now famously - supplied with aircraft dispatched from Munich direct to the front line, in what was thought to have been blue 24 upper surfaces with RLM 76 Wellenmuster pattern superimposed. This image exists in the BPK archive ( ignore their caption...). BTW Claes' books have been going for small fortunes on ebay recently. They are all still available via his own Centura Publishing site . ( FWIW personally I tend to agree with Tim ...see post 25)

 

Ju88bpkblue.jpg

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What a massively fascinating subject, we may never know but it's just so much fun researching the subject 🤔😉

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23 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I've given in and written an email to Jürgen Kiroff begging for help with RLM83.

 

If he can help me with specific colour coordinates, I'll make it.

Just do what AK have done, label some of your RLM24 as RLM 83.

 

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27 minutes ago, tank152 said:

Just do what AK have done, label some of your RLM24 as RLM 83.

 

 

I'm not hearing great things about their colour matching so am holding off for something compelling from someone who knows a lot about this. If Jürgen Kiroff can't or wont help I'll try casting the net a little wider. :)

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I've been reading with interest this and similar thread as an Italy based Ju-88 is one of my long term modelling plans.. Wonder if I should take the plunge and build one ? Guess the best way to find one of the potential candidates for the use of blue would be to buy the Sundin book but I find the price a bit high as a source for a single model

I read Lucas' article in SAM and he also suggests a small number of Bf-109G as using dark blue on the upper surfaces, what do the Luftwaffe enthusiasts here think ?

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Neil,

 

Thanks for the kind words. With respect to the colour profiles in Claes' book illustrating the use of RLM 83 Dunkelblau, these subjects were based on examination of photos of the respective aircraft coupled with other datasets.  An important clue is the fact that these aircraft all have a single uppersurface colour over which was applied one or two additional contrasting colours. These observations were combined with new knowledge of this colour that includes photos of aircraft parts painted in this blue shade, official reports (e.g. AI2g), narrative information, etc.  Though not definitive, we believe our interpretations, based on the available evidence and deductive reasoning, are reasonable.  A point should be made that KG 26 was particularly creative in modifying factory-applied camouflage as the unit saw fit reflecting the operational conditions it was operating in. There are a number of examples in Claes' book illustrating this point. The use of promulgated and experimental colours for Luftwaffe aircraft operating in the marine environment is a much overlooked subject.

 

Cheers,

 

David

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On 1/26/2019 at 10:43 AM, FAAMAN said:

It was supposed to be a dark blue, possibly RLM24 Blue with a percentage of black added to darken it.

I've just read the new SAM (Feb2019, Vol.40, iss.12 Pages 64 -67) the article by Paul Lucas is very interesting indeed with some great info but I'm not sure I can agree with his summation of what RLM83 was.

Having read a few of Paul Lucas' articles I do find most of them a bit 'amateurish' (in lack of other words). In his recent article on RLM83 he is jumping to conclusions again and again without substantial evidence. Also, he does not consider other options, e.g. when an intelligence report states "blue-grey on the top surfaces..." it might as well (or perhaps most likely) have been RLM75 instead of RLM24 or the blue RLM83. In other words, he is trying to hard to conclude that the use of a blue (RLM24 or similar) was widespread and thereby ruining a good genuine analysis that might actually shed some light on this subject.

 

Jens

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Have to agree with you, I've re-read the article a few more times since posting and the author does appear to be "reaching" for his conclusion.

 

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