Finnish Blenheim Mk.IV color questions

[ReccePhreak]

I plan to do the Airfix 1/72 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IVF as a Finnish recce Blenheim, BL-129, LeLv 48, using the OWL aufklärer conversion (OWLR72055) and OWL decals (OWLDS72066).

The decal instructions show the upper camouflage to be Olive Green and Black. Does anybody know what Olive Green would be used? I mainly use Testors Model Master enamels, so a close enough green from that line would be ideal.

Also, would the interior be RAF Interior Green?

 

Larry 

[JackG]

The Finnish Olive Green is a close match to the British FAA Dark Slate Grey:

 

regards,

Jack

[72modeler]

Larry,

 The Finnish  olive green is said to be closest to FS34096 by the modeling color charts I have, as well as in  Finnish Air Force Camouflage and Markings, by Kari Stenman and Kalevi Keskinen. The war black is listed as FS37038, and the light grey undersides is listed as FS 36440 for aircraft before 1941; after that new-builds and aircraft going through overhaul had FS35414 undersides, which was  RLM 65 hellblau. IIRC, FS36440 is the same as USN gull grey.

 

I would think those Blenheims received from the UK would have the interiors finished in grey-green; those produced under license at the State Aircraft Factory I'm not sure about- either grey-green or a light bluish-grey would be my guess, but I think maybe @Antti_K would be a better source than I for this- I would hate to steer you in the wrong direction.

 

IPMS Stockholm listed the Finnish olive green between FS34096 and FS34098, with 34096 being the darker of the two and 34098 being browner. Modelmaster has FS34097, field green, which is between the two but too green- I think you could add some yellow or black to it to make it more brown. Aeromaster used to have a very accurate Finnish olive green, but is OOP and I think Colourcoats might have it, if you want to stay with enamels. I hope this helps a little.

Mike

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

 

For interior green BL-129 see thread below for photos of BL-125 pieces. Both were from same batch (Sarja III = Mk IV with Finnish exterior colours) and had British interor finish:

 

It is possible that later in 1944 or so VL had painted some grey on the interior surfaces during overhauls. Exterior at least was repainted for 1944. InScale decals cater the pattern change 

 

Exterior olive green should have some brown in it, FS34096 is a good approximate. Mind You, the colour in real life was not one paint. Finnish (about 1940-1942/43) and German (about 42/43 to 45/46) paints were used and Brtitihs too for the first batches (1937-40).

In the good old days modellers mixed it from Airfix M3 Olive Green and M5 Light Brown. Don't remember the recommended ratio, but more green than brown (3/5??).

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

 

[dalea]

Lifecolor did a boxed set, don't know if it is still available. A net search "Lifecolor Finnish Air Force " brings  up the colour swatches

[ReccePhreak]

Thanks for all the very informative replies.

 

I have 5 bottles of Model Master 2027 (FS34096), so I am good for the topside green. I have plenty of FS37038 (Flat Black), but I wonder if Aircraft Interior Black might look better, since it's "subdued" a bit. The decal instructions mention RLM65 for the underside blue, and I have that, although I will probably order a few more for spares.

 

I don't have any RLM27 for the yellow wingtips & fuselage band, so I may have to sub another yellow.

 

The decals say that they are for the plane in Summer 1943, so I will probably go with RAF Interior Green.

 

Now to locate a Classic Airframes 1/48 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV, so I can also do it in 1/48 (My preferred) scale. 

 

Larry

[Chuck1945]

51 minutes ago, ReccePhreak said:

Thanks for all the very informative replies.

 

....

 

Now to locate a Classic Airframes 1/48 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV, so I can also do it in 1/48 (My preferred) scale. 

 

Larry

Hang on a bit. Airfix will do the IV in 1/48 before too long to go with their 1/48 Blenheim I

[ReccePhreak]

54 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

Hang on a bit. Airfix will do the IV in 1/48 before too long to go with their 1/48 Blenheim I

Is that "Official" from Airfix, or just wishful thinking? 

[Wm Blecky]

2 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

Thanks for all the very informative replies.

 

I have 5 bottles of Model Master 2027 (FS34096), so I am good for the topside green. I have plenty of FS37038 (Flat Black), but I wonder if Aircraft Interior Black might look better, since it's "subdued" a bit. The decal instructions mention RLM65 for the underside blue, and I have that, although I will probably order a few more for spares.

 

I don't have any RLM27 for the yellow wingtips & fuselage band, so I may have to sub another yellow.

 

The decals say that they are for the plane in Summer 1943, so I will probably go with RAF Interior Green.

 

Now to locate a Classic Airframes 1/48 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IV, so I can also do it in 1/48 (My preferred) scale. 

 

Larry

Recently, I was able to score the Aeromaster colours for Finnish aircraft from an eBay seller.  They were priced at absolute bargain prices.  When they arrived, the paints were all good, matter of fact, they looked 'brand new'.  If you do a search on eBay, you should be able to find them.  The seller is in France.  HTH.

[72modeler]

3 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

I don't have any RLM27 for the yellow wingtips & fuselage band, so I may have to sub another yellow.

Larry,

 

According to my Finnish color references, the yellow used for cowlings, fuselage bands and underside wingtips was FS13538 chrome yellow, or FS33538 insignia yellow, both of which can be found in the Modelmaster  range. I did have a bottle of Modelmaster FS34096, but it needs to be a little browner to match the FS chip, which is what I did when I mixed a small batch; my bottle of Floquil FS34096 in the old Military Models range, is spot-on, with the correct brownish tint. I always used either Floquil Grimy Black or Engine Black for Finnish War Black, but adding grey to any flat or semi-matte black would get you there. 

Mike

 

I hope Jamie will get around to the WW2 Finnish colors at some point; I can always mix, but I'm getting lazy/soft in my old age, and the Colourcoats enamels seem to be very well-researched and accurate.

[ReccePhreak]

57 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Larry,

 

According to my Finnish color references, the yellow used for cowlings, fuselage bands and underside wingtips was FS13538 chrome yellow, or FS33538 insignia yellow, both of which can be found in the Modelmaster  range. I did have a bottle of Modelmaster FS34096, but it needs to be a little browner to match the FS chip, which is what I did when I mixed a small batch; my bottle of Floquil FS34096 in the old Military Models range, is spot-on, with the correct brownish tint. I always used either Floquil Grimy Black or Engine Black for Finnish War Black, but adding grey to any flat or semi-matte black would get you there. 

Mike

 

I hope Jamie will get around to the WW2 Finnish colors at some point; I can always mix, but I'm getting lazy/soft in my old age, and the Colourcoats enamels seem to be very well-researched and accurate.

Mike,

 

Thanks for the info on the yellow that was used on Finnish aircraft, that will make my job easier. Since I plan on doing a bunch of WW2 Finnish aircraft, I think I will take a fresh bottle of ModelMaster FS34096 and start adding a little brown at a time, until I think it looks right. Based on what you use for Finnish War Black, I think I will try ModelMaster Aircraft Interior Black.

 

Larry

Edited December 29, 2018 by ReccePhreak
Spelling

[Chuck1945]

3 hours ago, ReccePhreak said:

Is that "Official" from Airfix, or just wishful thinking? 

Neither 😊. 1/48 isn’t my preferred scale so personally I don’t care if they do it or not, but... I would expect it to follow the Blenheim I eventually

[Kari Lumppio]

Hello!

 

Finnish yellow paints used were Dicco 6 and Unica 12. I was already looking for Finnish National Archive digital collection, but seems Antti_K has already done the job here at Britmodeller, see post #25 in the thread below:

 

The samples and more can be found for example from this manufacturer's (Tikkurila) paint catalogue (proceed to the end pages 69-88):

https://digi.kansalliskirjasto.fi/pienpainate/binding/346206

Beware the fact that Tikkurila used product name Unica for many things!

 

I did an experiment and using snipping tool put the Dicco 6 and Unica 12 samples together. They are virtually same on my monitor, Unica 12 perhaps somewhat paler and less red.

 

Additionally I have seen archived depot orders for  largish amounts of Autoemali TP n:o 25 yellow paint, but I do not know any sample for it.

 

It seems no yellow paint was ordered from Ikarol, Germany so the above palette it is for Finnish war time marking yellows. Once again, in real life there was no single paint for the marking colour.

 

Cheers,

Kari

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Kari Lumppio

[leyreynolds]

On 12/28/2018 at 12:49 PM, ReccePhreak said:

I plan to do the Airfix 1/72 Bristol Blenheim Mk.IVF as a Finnish recce Blenheim, BL-129, LeLv 48, using the OWL aufklärer conversion (OWLR72055) and OWL decals (OWLDS72066).

The decal instructions show the upper camouflage to be Olive Green and Black. Does anybody know what Olive Green would be used? I mainly use Testors Model Master enamels, so a close enough green from that line would be ideal.

Also, would the interior be RAF Interior Green?

 

Larry 

Check Hyperscale Airfix forum for the corrections required to produce a Blenheim rather than the rather poor Bolingbroke represented by the kit.

Edited December 30, 2018 by leyreynolds

[ReccePhreak]

5 hours ago, leyreynolds said:

Check Hyperscale Airfix forum for the corrections required to produce a Blenheim rather than the rather poor Bolingbroke represented by the kit.

I did a search for Blenheim on the Hyperscale GROUP BUILD "Airfix, Frog and Matchbox - Classic British Kits" subforum and got ZERO kits. 

[72modeler]

1 hour ago, ReccePhreak said:

I did a search for Blenheim on the Hyperscale GROUP BUILD "Airfix, Frog and Matchbox - Classic British Kits" subforum and got ZERO kits. 

Here's a link to one of the few kit reviews that picked up on the fact that Airfix used the restored example that was made up of Bolinbroke airframes for making the new-tool kit; the nacelles, intake tubes and exhaust manifolds are quite different from a Blenheim, IIRC. release. There was a lot of discussion, photos, and diagrams on this site regarding the  subject, so you can search for it and see if you want to do the corrections that are needed. I still haven't decided how I want to go about doing this, or if I want to cut parts from one of my older kits that have correct nacelle contours. You could also try  a search for "1/72 Airfix Blenheim builds" to see what others have done. The shape of the nacelle fairings is the most glaring fault  and the hardest to correct. It does make one heck of a  Bolinbroke, though!

Mike

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/kits/airfixa04017reviewmd_1.htm

 

 

Edited December 30, 2018 by 72modeler
removed incorrect information

[ReccePhreak]

7 minutes ago, 72modeler said:

Here's a link to one of the few kit reviews that picked up on the fact that Airfix used the restored example that was made up of Bolinbroke airframes for making the new-tool kit; the nacelles, intake tubes and exhaust manifolds are quite different from a Blenheim, IIRC. I think Airfix listened to the howls of Blenheim fanatics when the 1/72 kit was released and corrected the nacelles on their 1/48 release. There was a lot of discussion, photos, and diagrams on this site regarding the  subject, so you can search for it and see if you want to do the corrections that are needed. I still haven't decided how I want to go about doing this, or if I want to cut parts from one of my older kits that have correct nacelle contours. You could also try  a search for "1/72 Airfix Blenheim builds" to see what others have done. The shape of the nacelle fairings is the most glaring fault  and the hardest to correct. It does make one heck of a  Bolinbroke, though!

Mike

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/kits/airfixa04017reviewmd_1.htm

 

 

Thanks Mike,

 

I will do a search to see what I can fix on my kit and what I can live with. I have already spent too much on the kit & 2 aftermarket sets, to just give up on it.

 

Larry

 

[Graham Boak]

Mark is only talking about the small inlets for cockpit heating on the front of the exhausts, which are easily removed, not the main air inlet trumpets inside the cowling.

 

I recall considerable mention of the kits flaws on this forum, but don't recall comments on the exhausts.  Nor will that Hyperscale link open properly.  Can you say a little more about them ?

 

[72modeler]

Graham,

 

Not sure what the issue is on the Hyperscale link- it opens OK from the post above. I can go back and re-insert the link to see if that helps. Thanks for correcting me on my comments regarding the new-tool kit; I did mean the intensifier tubes, not the 'trumpet' intakes inside the cowling. I should have gone back and reviewed the original discussion- especially as I was one of the participants! Oh, well- too many modeling facts and to few remaining serviceable brain cells, I fear! Sorry for the  misinformation! I have gone back and removed it from my post above.

 

http://www.hyperscale.com/2015/reviews/kits/airfixa04017reviewmd_1.htm

 

RecceFreak,

There was a build, which of course I can't recall at the moment, where a builder did correct the nacelle fairings on the new-tool kit; I think the Hyperscale article has good photos and text that can be used if you wanted to correct the nacelles. It would be nice, but unlikely, that a resin or vacform correction set will be forthcoming from the aftermarket, although I am hoping that maybe Alley Cat Models will do one, as it could be done very similar to the excellent conversion they have released to make the Merlin-powered Beaufighter from either of the new-tool Airfix kits. I think it would be a good seller. I guess I should pull all of my old Blenheim kits down from the shelves, Airfix, Encore, Frog, and MPM, to see which one/s might have suitable nacelle fairings to transplant on my new-tool kits. Is this a fun hobby or what?

Mike

Edited December 30, 2018 by 72modeler
corrected misinformation, added link

[Graham Boak]

Sorry it wasn't the link to the review that didn't work, but going from there to the internal Hyperscale link to their forum.  I've since got in by another route, and found a thread about the nacelles above the wing but nothing yet about the cowlings nor exhausts.  I notice that there's a repeated comment that the old Airfix ones were right - no they weren't!  They were too pointy and ended too far aft.  You could cut them back but not without going through the uppersurface plastic.  The Frog were good.

[ReccePhreak]

24 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

Sorry it wasn't the link to the review that didn't work, but going from there to the internal Hyperscale link to their forum.  I've since got in by another route, and found a thread about the nacelles above the wing but nothing yet about the cowlings nor exhausts.  I notice that there's a repeated comment that the old Airfix ones were right - no they weren't!  They were too pointy and ended too far aft.  You could cut them back but not without going through the uppersurface plastic.  The Frog were good.

Is it possible to use the engine nacelles from a FROG Blenheim on the Airfix kit, or is it not worth the effort?

 

Would these aftermarket engine cowlings & exhausts be of any use?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBS-Models-1-72-BRISTOL-BLENHIM-ENGINE-COWLINGS-EXHASTS-Resin-Update-Set-/361531121088?hash=item542cef1dc0

 

Larry

Edited December 30, 2018 by ReccePhreak
More info

[Chuck1945]

1 hour ago, ReccePhreak said:

Is it possible to use the engine nacelles from a FROG Blenheim on the Airfix kit, or is it not worth the effort?

 

Would these aftermarket engine cowlings & exhausts be of any use?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SBS-Models-1-72-BRISTOL-BLENHIM-ENGINE-COWLINGS-EXHASTS-Resin-Update-Set-/361531121088?hash=item542cef1dc0

 

Larry

The problem is with the nacelle shape, too high and wide, not the cowls. The SBS set will be sharper with more crisp detail than the Airfix version but won’t help the nacelle shape.

[ReccePhreak]

19 minutes ago, Chuck1945 said:

The problem is with the nacelle shape, too high and wide, not the cowls. The SBS set will be sharper with more crisp detail than the Airfix version but won’t help the nacelle shape.

Okay, thanks for that info.

[72modeler]

I have attached a link to some excellent detail photos of the original Blenheim IV which is a part of the Aviation Museum of Central Finland's collection. Some good views of the colors and the upper nacelle fairings. I hope this will help those planning to build any of the new-tool Airfix kit releases. I also found a very large upper view photo of the Mk IV which I think will be a good modeling reference.

Mike

http://www.airpages.ru/eng/museum/fin004.htm

 

http://www.airport-data.com/aircraft/photo/001083263L.html

Edited December 31, 2018 by 72modeler
added photo link

[ReccePhreak]

Mike,

 

Thanks for the links, great pics!

 

Larry