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a350-900 to 1000 conversion 1/144


phil1

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On ‎30‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 07:47, halcyonjet said:

May I thank you for your sacrifice to the modelling gods.

I once cut down a Revell A320 to make an A319, only for them to announce their kit of the A319.

I chopped 2 Minicraft MD-80's to make an MD-87 and MD-90, but before I had finished them EE announced they would be doing both of them.

A while back I got hold of 2 spare Zvezda 787-8's, with plans to convert them to produce a 787-9 when, you guessed it. alomg came their new 787-9 kit. At least I might be able to make an -8 and -10 out of them.

I'd marked up a Zvezda 737-800 for shortening to a -700 , but that is on hold for now!

BTW, my Revell A350 is still buried deep in the stash, without any thoughts of a conversion....

 

Dave

 

May I be the first to thank you for sacrificing so many kits so the rest of us don't have to do the conversion when a kit then follows

We the unwashed  Plebs thank you  :thumbsup:

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On 1/13/2019 at 8:54 PM, XV571 said:

Hi Phil,

 

Great work as usual on stretching the Revell A350. We all thank you for doing this so that Zvezda could promptly go and announce their -1000 kit!

 

I've been looking into this off and on since a conversation I had at SMW last November. I wan't sure whether to post this in the original thread but I think it's probably more appropriate here for now. So, go get a cuppa and make yourself comfy for a long read :lol:

 

The exact forward plug location is actually inserted at Frame 30, this is after the eleventh window from the first door and is six frames long (7 windows). The aft plug is five frames (six windows) aft of Frame 72 (located four windows behind Door 3 however as this is still inside the wing to body fairing zone, unless you cut aft of this (like you've done) you'd need to perform major surgery. The centre section is the same length on both variants. Incidentally the centre of Door 2 now falls directly in line with the forward tip of the wing to body fairing.
 
On the wings, after a few false starts I now think I've got to the bottom of the wing differences between the two variants:

 

There is an extension to the trailing edge only. From the data I've seen the chord at the fuselage/wing root is the same for the -900 and -1000. After seeing reference to Flap and Winglet trailing edge extensions, further investigation confirmed that the chord is wider out to the wing tip on the A35K. This extension is quite subtle as it effectively extends the trailing edge between the wing root and winglet but  tapers away toward the extreme tip of the Winglet.

 

This is a diagram to show the change between the two (the shaded area is the A350-900 wing) which as you can see requires addition of about 2.0mm to the kit's trailing edge with a taper at each end. My figure is derived from reliable source data and the Revell A350 wing matches it well - if you print it out the flap track fairings should align with the kit's wing and the wing root should match (do not include the section used to locate the wing into the fuselage!) The wing tip should more or less align but obviously it's going to be tricky to match it perfectly between the 2D drawing and the moulded 3D plastic. Adding the extension on to the winglets may prove to be troublesome considering the Revell wing is solid outboard of the wing tip.

2ea47a2b-f466-444d-89ab-9610b081e310.jpg

 

On the Main Landing Gear bay - this ia one frame longer that the A359, the extra being at the rear of the bay. This is an additional 4.4mm compared to the kit door. Unfortunately I don't have any detail pictures I can post but the corners are more squared off at the front and the rear and the doors are slightly narrower than the A359's. The RAT is also moved one frame back as you observed.

 

Here's three photos of Cathay Pacific A35Ks with good shots of the door shape:


https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5236717/L?qsp=eJxtjTEOwjAQBP%2BytRsEBCsdaSih4AOn8wGWQmKdr0gU5e8YR6KiW82uZhfwOJhMdp%2BToEUWUn7BIZHSO6NdQFFZ6WEd5cjbzJ927scvMoj%2BbdA2x8bvHfKo1s1FH8jkzCzJJGDjVw2i30oy199n0RRJEr3VDH8oPMSceqoOMYo91vUDkTo%2BSQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5133441/L?qsp=eJxtTrsOwjAM/BfPWXiVKBtdGOnAD1iOgUiljWwPVFX/naaRmNjupbubgcbB%2BGP3KTMEUEahFzjIKPhWCDNgEhJ8WIuaqMb8eed%2B%2BpUHlr8OhObU%2BIMDHcXaaa2PaHwh4mwcoeo3iSzFYqVt91l%2B7Atk6Srzx5XGpLnHrYUNUw/L8gUBCj6O

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5110515/L?qsp=eJxtTrsOwjAM/BfPWXiVKBtdGOnAD1iOgUiljWwPVFX/naaRmNjupbubgcbB%2BGP3KTMEUEahFzjIKPhWCDNgEhJ8WIuaqMb8eed%2B%2BpUHlr8OhObU%2BIMDHcXaaa2PaHwh4mwcoeo3iSzFYqVt91l%2B7Atk6Srzx5XGpLnHrYUNUw/L8gUBCj6O

 

Finally, the Ram Air Outlet exhausts. Typically this isn't as simple as you might think; depending on the aircraft there can be between two to four. Note that the grilles forward and aft of the exhausts on the kit were deleted from MSN005 (the second carbon fibre livery jet now F-HREU with French Bee). You can also see this in Phil's picture above. MSN005 was also actually the last to have 4 exhausts. Of the early test aircraft MSNs 001, 002 & 005 had 4, MSN 003 had 3 and MSN 004 had 2. Production aircraft have 2 or 3; I have no idea why, it may be down to a customer configuration.

 

I thinks that covers Phil's questions. If anyone has any more on the A350-1000 external differences I'll see if I can come up with some answers for you.

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

absolutely outstanding work Jonathan! this is exactly what I was looking for. I was about to update this and state that I was 100% convinced that where the wing meets the fuselage was the same length as the a359 as you have mentioned above. 

I thought looking at reference photos that when the flaps were stowed that the flap track fairings were tucked more under the wing on the a35K (sorry above calling it the a35X! senior moment) OR do you think they've been extended also? 

 

the top pick is the a359 taking off with full flap and underneath the a35K

 

iiMAwM9.jpg

FNDpQHC.jpg

 

notice the size of the closest full spoiler rectangle compared to the length of the flaps behind it toward the leading edge? the a35K definitely has more length. also the winglet/sharklet/blended wingtip seems to have more width despite it actually stands taller than the old wingtip

 

 

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satcom antenna is on as well as various adf/gps antennas

 

1dMY1uC.jpg

 

started with the tamiya surface primer on the front. I avoided the fine surface primer as i want it as thick as possible to fix any gaps and hide the extension as much as possible. any detailed areas that still exist have been covered to prevent loss of surface detail especially using this this stuff 

 

GmMFP0Q.jpg

 

I've done so much sanding i've obliterated the skin of the aircraft, here it went so thin i had to open it up and fill the inside.  The plastic I used for the plug was so brittle you can see where it broke apart, if I filled the hole gap it would have saved me a lot of extra work. 

 

 

8okKNUk.jpg

 

The larger a35K doors

 

 

7OdbrwW.jpg

 

laid down a few coats and the first plug is invisible and has maintained a common diameter with the rest of the fuselage. The rear plug needs a bit of smoothing. so far so good. wings next - that should be very interesting! 

 

FQPzqEz.jpg

4eBHE2P.jpg

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/14/2019 at 6:54 AM, XV571 said:

... From the data I've seen the chord at the fuselage/wing root is the same for the -900 and -1000.

 

... My figure is derived from reliable source data ...

 

 

Nice Drawing and I don't mean to doubt your research and not that I'll be cutting any Revell A350-900 kits up now or in the future given the announced Kit from Zvezda but I'd really like to see the data that says the chord at the wing root is the same for both.  

 

My brain hurts at the moment (having done some mindless time consuming Report formatting) but I'll have to read your whole Post again when it doesn't as on first read I don't recall any mention of the Wing being moved one Frame forward?  

 

Also it just doesn't make any sense to Me design wise to taper the trailing edge in that area.  But than again I'm a Mechanical Engineer not an Aeronautical Engineer!  

 

I'd like to see some photos of both the leading and trailing edge wing root as the photos posted later don't show the trailing edge area of real interest - that is whether there is a taper there or not.  

 

I'm going to take some headache pills now and go to bed ... my head hurts too much!  

 

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OK after looking at a million (well maybe 987 654) photos forget what I wrote above - like Murray Walker (I think I'll change my Sign In Name now) I'm completely mistaken and you are absolutely correct - it looks like it does taper.  So definitely a Mech Eng not an Aero Eng!  

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/2/2019 at 12:39 PM, Rob S said:

OK after looking at a million (well maybe 987 654) photos forget what I wrote above - like Murray Walker (I think I'll change my Sign In Name now) I'm completely mistaken and you are absolutely correct - it looks like it does taper.  So definitely a Mech Eng not an Aero Eng!  

 

hello mate

 

you are right to query as until the zvezda kit comes out the jurys out on this one. I am however I'm relatively convinced that jonathan has came to the most likely conclusion and a beautiful diagram to boot! 

i read your concerns again about moving the wing 1 frame forward....now I fully accept I might of got this wrong! however what I did was, as the belly fairing is the same length as on the a359.....theoretically, i moved this whole area forward by subtracting one frame from the forward fuselage extension (doors and windows are irrelevant now as they've been filled and sanded out of existence). then, I think because of this I may have added an extra frame to the rear fuselage extension

 

anyway to make sure i've made a few measurements based on the diagram below by airbus, the diagram doesn't show the overall length of 73.78m but wiki confirms the length

3DW6iP7.jpg

 

nose to belly fairing (not wing fairing) - 23.30m 

nose to rear door - 59.53m 

a35k overall length - 73.78m 

 

2330cm divided by 144 = 16.2cm

5953cm divided by 144 = 41.3cm

7378cm divided by 144 = 51.2cm

 

I've just breathed a big sigh of relief as all measurements check out, i was a bit nervous about the overall length but I'd forgotten that the furthest point back of the plane is the rear of the horizontal stab

 

Phil

 

 

 

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ok after satisfied with a few coats of tamiya grey primer i give the fuselage a full can of tamiya white. the extensions are nowhere to be seen now so I'm quite happy with the result. I've left the tail to try and salvage some of the detail without clogging it with unnecessary coats of paint (I'm not even sure what colours I'm doing yet - not much variety around at the minute)

 

usmyYaj.jpg

KBsID1l.jpg

 

for the wing extension this piece needs to come off for the 2 parts to slide to create the new forward edge and half of the trailing edge

 

7xXpYlF.jpg

abxHHup.jpg

 

these parts need to go as well, fortunately I'm going for 'gear up' otherwise I'd have a problem

 

WTtGX2s.jpg

 

There are no obstructions now and i can position the wing like so

 

7oDxDx0.jpg

DKurdBe.jpg

 

nothing glued here but just an example of what it will look like. the wing doesnt fit properly yet as the inboard hasn't been tapered away 

 

N8piThT.jpg

EibZ7Ab.jpg

 

the sharklets are a bit of a mess, I've used too much excess plastic and give myself too much work to do. I will just keep reshaping them until they resemble something off the latest a35k. remember there are 4 slightly different sharklets for the a359/a35k......the regular a359 sharklet, the original a35k sharklet that looks the same but is slightly wider at the base to accommodate the wider wing, and the same differences for the new taller sharklet for both variants. 

 

phil

 

hx430fg.jpg

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Brilliant work!  

 

Much bravery and talent on display here.  

 

I'm sort of glad now I didn't attempt it!  (Especially if Zvezda deliver as promised ... wait and see I guess?)  

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

the horizontal stabilizers were from a previous model which i had melted accidentally with polystyrene cement (something I have not done since i was a kid, I bought a whole kit to replace them)....however as this model is a conversion salvaging them seem appropriate. This time I've tried tamiya filler instead of milliput to flatten out the surface

 

MYXU89C.jpg

 

I then had the task of re-scribing the elevators as shown on the right stab

 

PHPOWuL.jpg

 

here's the extension of the wing with the taper

 

y6fNCvk.jpg

 

and the extension leading toward the sharklet

 

whWhSID.jpg

 

the sharklet extension and reshaping has been a nightmare, I've lost all of the original sharklet as I've overworked the area. 

 

MmSku8X.jpg

 

I've used scrap plastic attached to the original sharklet and painstakingly filed it to something that resembles the update. 

 

QoRZbP4.jpg

PzyCean.jpg

 

with the lower portion of the wing being moved back it shows the missing area in the wing root, that area has to come out to not only to fill the gap but to give the wing edge are more rounded appearence. 

 

hOdGhge.jpg

 

I don't like to glue the wings at this stage so I've fixed them on temporarily and applied milliput to get the right shape. I've let the milliput semi-dry and then removed the wing so I've got the desired shape without disturbing it. 

 

nIpRzTv.jpg

 

this is the new edge that fits perfectly now

 

7hKBzyF.jpg

RD4DXix.jpg

 

unfortunately the fuselage has experienced some kind of explosive decompression, easily put right

 

qDCNyN8.jpg

 

tomorrow I'll give it some coats of tamiya white. 

 

5sJfYMy.jpg

1aMjqg3.jpg

IO4vLj8.jpg

 

one thing I haven't decided yet is what livery it's going to be, not much to choose from at the minute but either:

 

Cathay Pacific

Qatar

BA

Virgin

 

Cathay Pacific is available. the decals for 900 titles look the same size as the 1000. Qatar the same. The BA I'd have to use the 777 or the 787 decals and hope the a350 is rolled out in the present livery. I have plenty of spare virgin titles left but again we won't know exactly what it looks like until its rolled out in June.

 

Phil

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this is the differences in the sharklets to the regular one on my 900.

 

the newer ones are described as taller, thinner and bend in more slightly affecting the angle of the sweep a little. 

 

I cant guarantee I've got them spot on but since I've taken this photo ive took a mm or so off the top as they are likely a little bit too tall. It's very hard to get reference photos to compare as the 900's now sport the larger sharklet. I'm unsure if the old ones stopped after a certain MSN number or some operators are still having some delivered with the old style.

either way I'm quite satisfied with the finish and the wing blend 

 

oZqe46o.jpg

 

from this angle you can make out the extra I've added on the 1000's wing. the sharklet definitely looks too tall here 

 

WLtI5y6.jpg

 

wings and stabs primed then given a few coats of revell 371 (nailed on wing colour) wings dont fit as well now but I'll see to that

 

zwmRhPj.jpg

DvEvIiz.jpg

 

this aircraft is LONG! next a decision is needed for the livery. 26 decals qatar a359 are unavailable. pas decals are good quality but are too transparent. TB decal do one but I've heard they can break up. nazca have doors embedded in the titles which is a no no and ascensio are missing the sharklet logo decal. stumped!

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  • 2 weeks later...

progress has been held up lately due to a common problem I have encountered before with conversions in particular. the problem is always with using Milliput and gloss paint.  obviously with the fuselage extension there has been a fair amount of milliput used to fill the gaps. the fuselage joins were invisible before with a dozen coats of tamiya primer but when using revell gloss white the fuselage joins seem to rise out of the paintwork and need sanded down again - which removes the paintwork

 

it may just been a reaction of using enamel based gloss paint on top of of the laquer based tamiya - so I've decided to stick with tamiya to finish off the whole fuselage to avoid this problem again. I've sprayed the affected area down with TS101 base white and already the surface is smooth 

 

phil

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Wow Phil, this is a fascinating and very challenging build, as usual for you. Looks beautiful so far. As for the painting...I have made it a rule to stick with same-branded paint when spraying. Seems its more sure that they won't react and cause new problems. For example, Tamiya primer with Tamiya final color. Enamels with enamels. I definitely don't use Testors, and have not used Revell. Tamiya TS-26 is about the purest white I have found...bright, and won't yellow over time, and doesn't seem to be affected by some sun in the room, though not direct. 

 

This build is going to be beautiful for sure! Thanks, too, for you detailed WIP...very helpful and definitely inspirational. 😉

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  • 3 weeks later...

the good news is that I'm now on the decal stage for the fuselage. I've only got the correct number of windows for the a359 so I will have to order some more from authentic airliners. 

 

 

 

Jy1ewXQ.jpgdAlciCE.jpg

EElyPhT.jpg

 

the bad news is that the virgin a35K is actually sporting the old sharklet......look at the French Bee a359 in the foreground with the new ones, its a very noticeable difference. Lots of hard work shaping the sharklets gone to waste!!

 

kSXMPcM.jpg

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On 3/20/2019 at 10:42 PM, Challenger350Pilot said:

Wow Phil, this is a fascinating and very challenging build, as usual for you. Looks beautiful so far. As for the painting...I have made it a rule to stick with same-branded paint when spraying. Seems its more sure that they won't react and cause new problems. For example, Tamiya primer with Tamiya final color. Enamels with enamels. I definitely don't use Testors, and have not used Revell. Tamiya TS-26 is about the purest white I have found...bright, and won't yellow over time, and doesn't seem to be affected by some sun in the room, though not direct. 

 

This build is going to be beautiful for sure! Thanks, too, for you detailed WIP...very helpful and definitely inspirational. 😉

thanks mate, appreciate it. yeh, your definitely right, best to stick to a common brand. I'm convinced there is a problem with milliput and surface problems - particularly when trying to achieve a smooth glossy finish on the paintwork. I think for direct surface treatment I will be using mr surfacer in future for any micro gaps 

 

phil

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here is my updated sharklet which now needs changed back to the original one that came with the kit!

 

WGMsc6c.jpg

 

a quick comparison from my other kit

 

hk2ZYX2.jpg

 

the left sharklet has now been sanded down back to its original look albeit thicker at the base for the wider wing

 

mSDbdmv.jpg

 

in atlantic - unfortunately the 'virg' stuck to my hand and was torn off, its now history, a bit like the sharklets

 

rsZ5Cqp.jpg

l5VsEay.jpg

 

the other side is mostly complete. going to need more windows

 

eEGXc9a.jpg

7Pt5eDi.jpg

 

the extended fuselage length only seems to become obvious when the wings and empennage are fixed...

 

rdynAXP.jpg

 

the 3d cockpit windows are awesome, couldn't go back to regular bog standard decals 

 

a2T0ZXU.jpg

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Fantastic work on display here.  Huge effort but well worth it (and of course many thanks from all of us for tackling it so that a major Manufacturer will then release a kit of it!).  

 

 

35 minutes ago, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

.., it is a pity you could not leave the new style winglet on. What is the bet that a later Virgin tail rego will roll out with the new ones! :D

 

 

Inevitable isn't it?  Modelling Law 43?  

 

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absolutely, i think that's why there's 3 virgin a350s sitting at toulouse with white tails - i bet they are running a competition for an alternative livery 

 

phil

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