a350-900 to 1000 conversion 1/144

[phil1]

a350-900 to 1000 conversion 1/144

 

I bought revells a350 kit recently to use as spare parts for another a350 project and got me thinking what i could do with the 90% of the kit I've got left. 

My question basically is, how hard would it be to make a a350-1000 

 

From a bit research I've noted the obvious differences are

 

1. a 6 or 7 frame extension of the fuselage at the front

2. a 4 or 5 frame extension of the fuselage at the rear

3. a slightly larger wing area (extension of the trailing edge?)

4. uses a 6 wheel bogey instead of a 4 wheel (this may mean the landing gear bay is slightly longer)

 

I'm confident the example below is correct for the number of frames (should be 11 extra in total)

 

 

 

 

this shows a slightly different frame count 

 

 

by counting the window frames (using example 1) i've came to the conclusion that this is where the fuselage should be separated after the 9th window from L1

 

 

The rear 6 windows from the 3rd door, the only problem is that its right on the edge of the wing fairing which would be a difficult area to work in - therefore I think making the incision a few frames would be wiser providing its made on the part of the fuselage that is straight and doesn't curve toward the tail

 

 

 

any input or advice would be greatly appreciated! 

 

[Turbofan]

Hi Phil,

Can't help you with the A350 info but you've really been bitten by the conversion bug haven't you!?

Glad the A340-600 hasn't put you off, how is it going by the way? Should be in RFI soon I'd think.

Cheers,

Ian

[Rob S]

Hello Phil : 

 

This was first raised back in 2015 :  

 

 

 

which I found when I was looking to do it (but decided to do the A300B1 first for a Group Build on another Site).  

 

I reckon the image in that Thread is more accurate than those above : 

 

 

I believe the key to this conversion is moving the wing one frame forward (which means a bit of cutting of the wing and then blending into the wing root which is maybe a bit harder than it sounds as that wing is a beautiful fit as it is from memory) as this should allow the gear bays to be extended to cater for a triple bogie arrangement.  For the Wing by cutting the trailing edge and adding a new forward edge to it to extend the wing while maintaining the same trailing edge position should give the increased chord.  

 

Hope this helps.  If you wait a month or two I'll be having a go too but if you go ahead then probably even better for me as I'll know what prob;ems you encounter and how to solve them!  

 

Best of luck - will be watching from upside down and afar.  

 

[pinky coffeeboat]

According to the Zvedza 2019 catalogue featured over in the rumourmonger section, an A350-1000 is due for release next year!!

 

Jeff

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by pinky coffeeboat

[Babay]

https://imgs.info/i/zHau

32 minutes ago, pinky coffeeboat said:

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Babay

[phil1]

1 hour ago, pinky coffeeboat said:

According to the Zvedza 2019 catalogue featured over in the rumourmonger section, an A350-1000 is due for release next year!!

 

Jeff

 

everytime i plan a new project jeff!

 

phil

[phil1]

19 hours ago, Turbofan said:

Hi Phil,

Can't help you with the A350 info but you've really been bitten by the conversion bug haven't you!?

Glad the A340-600 hasn't put you off, how is it going by the way? Should be in RFI soon I'd think.

Cheers,

Ian

hi ian

 

been really busy at work over Christmas so its really held me up, typically though I've been distracted with this instead of getting the 600 finished off! 

 

phil

[pinky coffeeboat]

Plan a 757...

 

I'm holding off doing anymore 737-700 conversions. 

 

Don't forget the larger curved wingtip. The Revell kit has the initial style tip.

 

 

Jeff

[phil1]

7 hours ago, Rob S said:

Hello Phil : 

 

This was first raised back in 2015 :  

 

 

 

which I found when I was looking to do it (but decided to do the A300B1 first for a Group Build on another Site).  

 

I reckon the image in that Thread is more accurate than those above : 

 

 

I believe the key to this conversion is moving the wing one frame forward (which means a bit of cutting of the wing and then blending into the wing root which is maybe a bit harder than it sounds as that wing is a beautiful fit as it is from memory) as this should allow the gear bays to be extended to cater for a triple bogie arrangement.  For the Wing by cutting the trailing edge and adding a new forward edge to it to extend the wing while maintaining the same trailing edge position should give the increased chord.  

 

Hope this helps.  If you wait a month or two I'll be having a go too but if you go ahead then probably even better for me as I'll know what prob;ems you encounter and how to solve them!  

 

Best of luck - will be watching from upside down and afar.  

 

cheers for the input garry, if we concentrate on fuselage only, if you imagine that all the doors are going to get sanded away and all the windows filled....could I not put an extra frame in the mid-section in the gear bay and minus a frame at the front OR am i just confused!?

 

an extra frame here where the red line is?

 

 

phil

 

[phil1]

5 minutes ago, pinky coffeeboat said:

Plan a 757...

 

I'm holding off doing anymore 737-700 conversions. 

 

Don't forget the larger curved wingtip. The Revell kit has the initial style tip.

 

 

Jeff

I still think i may press ahead jeff (if its possible) as I've already got a a359 nearly ready for the shelf. if i did start a 757 you can guarantee it would happen.  yeh mate i nearly forgot about that, i take it even the 900's are receiving the new winglet now?

 

phil

[pinky coffeeboat]

Yeah, the new -900s (from about a year ago...ish) get the new wingtip too.

 

Jeff

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

5 hours ago, phil1 said:

everytime i plan a new project jeff!

 

phil

Plan more!

 

[Rob S]

12 hours ago, phil1 said:

cheers for the input garry, if we concentrate on fuselage only, if you imagine that all the doors are going to get sanded away and all the windows filled....could I not put an extra frame in the mid-section in the gear bay and minus a frame at the front OR am i just confused!?

 

an extra frame here where the red line is?

 

 

phil

 

 

My brain just switched off A350-1000 conversion mode when the guys mentioned Zvezda are doing it.  I'm pretty sure I can wait!  

 

(But I don't think I'd be doing any cutting or inserting a Frame in that Centre section - I'd just move the wing forward, blend in the wing body fairing, make the extended gear bay, and then make that extended trailing edge keeping the same trailing edge.)  

 

Who's Garry by the way?  

 

[phil1]

3 hours ago, Rob S said:

 

My brain just switched off A350-1000 conversion mode when the guys mentioned Zvezda are doing it.  I'm pretty sure I can wait!  

 

(But I don't think I'd be doing any cutting or inserting a Frame in that Centre section - I'd just move the wing forward, blend in the wing body fairing, make the extended gear bay, and then make that extended trailing edge keeping the same trailing edge.)  

 

Who's Garry by the way?  

 

senior moment! garry russel from the previous 1000 thread! my apologies 

 

phil

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

10 hours ago, Rob S said:

 

...

 

Who's Garry by the way?  

 

 

Wow Rob, how many aliases do you have on these modelling forums? Greg, Gary,.....

 

[halcyonjet]

May I thank you for your sacrifice to the modelling gods.

I once cut down a Revell A320 to make an A319, only for them to announce their kit of the A319.

I chopped 2 Minicraft MD-80's to make an MD-87 and MD-90, but before I had finished them EE announced they would be doing both of them.

A while back I got hold of 2 spare Zvezda 787-8's, with plans to convert them to produce a 787-9 when, you guessed it. alomg came their new 787-9 kit. At least I might be able to make an -8 and -10 out of them.

I'd marked up a Zvezda 737-800 for shortening to a -700 , but that is on hold for now!

BTW, my Revell A350 is still buried deep in the stash, without any thoughts of a conversion....

 

Dave

 

[Rob S]

16 hours ago, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

Wow Rob, how many aliases do you have on these modelling forums? Greg, Gary,.....

 

 

Who was it who said "You can call me anything but just don't call me late for Dinner!"?  

 

[phil1]

On 12/29/2018 at 9:47 PM, halcyonjet said:

May I thank you for your sacrifice to the modelling gods.

I once cut down a Revell A320 to make an A319, only for them to announce their kit of the A319.

I chopped 2 Minicraft MD-80's to make an MD-87 and MD-90, but before I had finished them EE announced they would be doing both of them.

A while back I got hold of 2 spare Zvezda 787-8's, with plans to convert them to produce a 787-9 when, you guessed it. alomg came their new 787-9 kit. At least I might be able to make an -8 and -10 out of them.

I'd marked up a Zvezda 737-800 for shortening to a -700 , but that is on hold for now!

BTW, my Revell A350 is still buried deep in the stash, without any thoughts of a conversion....

 

Dave

 

hi dave

 

sounds like my life to date on britmodeller!

 

i actually planned to get 2 787-9 kits and make an 8 and a 10. that will pave the way for zvezda to release the 10 kit 

 

phil

[phil1]

ok so I've done a bit more research....

 

 

for some reason I got it in my head that there was an extra frame in the mid section increasing the length of belly fairing (obviously i was talking man-vegetables). The gear doors are slightly bigger to accommodate the extra wheel but the wheels are actually smaller in size so the doors aren't substantially bigger. 

 

 

one slight difference with the gear doors (above) are that the edges are more square rather than rounded on the a359

 

 

sorry about the terrible photo quality, but basically what I've done here is drawn the new L2 door position 1 frame up (all windows are filled in and doors will be sanded away anyway) . i toyed with the idea of cutting out the whole belly fairing and moving it 1 frame forward but things are going to get quite messy so it will just prove a waste of time and I'm resigned to losing the fuselage detail, I'll have to rely on decals instead.

 

commence with the chopping....

 

 

i'm going to make the fuselage plugs myself by wrapping plastic sheeting around the inner pipe rather than buy another kit. Putting it next to my a340-600 you realize the true size of the a35X 

 

 

so far so good for plug 1 

 

 

plug 2 not so good. plastic as cracked so I've tried filling the gaps with superglue then I'll apply a bit filler

 

 

fuselage finish is quite even. I'm thinking of using tamiya undercoat which is generally thick and it will fill any gaps and offset any slight discrepancies in fuselage diameter (hopefully)

Just in case any one is worried I have measured the length and for 1/144 scale its to the nearest mm!

 

 

 

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

1 hour ago, phil1 said:

hi dave

 

sounds like my life to date on britmodeller!

 

i actually planned to get 2 787-9 kits and make an 8 and a 10. that will pave the way for zvezda to release the 10 kit 

 

phil

Nice progress on the -1000 Phil,

 

I was going to do a 787-10 as well, but I have a spare set of -8 to -9 fuselage plugs that I will use. Though I will need to reduce one of the plugs be a few mm to make it correct for the -10

[phil1]

On 1/6/2019 at 11:27 PM, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

Nice progress on the -1000 Phil,

 

I was going to do a 787-10 as well, but I have a spare set of -8 to -9 fuselage plugs that I will use. Though I will need to reduce one of the plugs be a few mm to make it correct for the -10

I hope to see you crack on with that mate as I don't think anyone has attempted a 10 yet. should be very straight forward as I think its just extending the fuselage and nothing else to trip you up. I thought this project was the same but there's more differences than I anticipated once I did some proper research

 

phil

[phil1]

ok just to summarize so far

 

A359

frames/windows (going by the lefthand side)

L1-L2 15 (prototype has one missing window near L1)

L2-L3 24

L3-L4 19

thats 58 in total

 

A35X

L1-L2 22 (7 frame difference NOT 6)

L2-L3 24 (SAME as the A359 BUT the belly fairing + wing is one frame further forward)

L3-L4 23 (4 frame difference NOT 5) 

thats 69 and that is a 11 frame difference which is correct

 

as the belly fairing/wing moves 1 frame up that means its 6 frames extra at the front and 5 frames extra at the back which is what I've done. The a35X is 23 feet/ 7 metres longer which by the time I did the math and divided the total length by 1/144 i got the right length of the fuselage for the scale. for reference each frame is about 4.4mm so 26.4mm to the front (doesn't seem like much) and 22mm to the back. 

 

Airbus had to stretch the main gear bay to 4.7m from 4.1, in 1/144 scale thats a stretch of 5mm from 28mm to 33m, I managed to confuse myself as I assumed the belly fairing was 5mm LONGER...which I assumed this was a frame to add in the centre which pushed the belly fairing and wing 1 frame up (which is wrong) - each frame is actually a bit less and 4.4mm long.

I think....the 5mm needs to be added to the gear DOORS! as obviously they are bigger to accommodate the extra wheel (even though they are smaller than those on the a359, the front wheels are the same) where the 5mm needs to be added whether its 5mm to the front or to the back or 2.5 each side I'm not sure! I'll worry about that when I come to do it, I might know more by then.   

 

The A35X wings

 

I got some great feedback about how to approach this but unfortunately I've stalled at the wings (pardon the pun). The obvious thing suggested was to to create a new forward edge and keep the position of the leading edge to accommodate the larger wing, now I realized the way I've done the fuselage the leading edge is already in the right place and its the leading edge which will need amending. as its been stated the chord is longer than on the a359 by in 1/144 scale 3mm (about 40cm in real life which doesnt seem much)

 

I could split the wing like this, and create half a new leading edge and half a new trailing edge. But my question would be does the extension of the wing run all the way to the sharklet like below??

 

 

or does it taper like this and the sharklet width is the same? 

 

 

The airbus manual states that for both the A359 and the A35X from wing root to the leading edge is 13.47m which contradicts a lot of info as its wing area is 4% bigger despite having the same wingspan!

 

 

unless the wing is actually more like this but I'd say unlikely

 

 

There's not a lot of information about it but I have seen it stated that the extension was to the leading edge wing devices (mainly flaps) so my question is would the wing not just be the same size when the flaps are stowed??

 

confusing!

 

 

[Romeo Alpha Yankee]

Wow, some deep thought involved with the wings there Phil. Makes you wonder if Zvezda is having the same thoughts with the dimensions of their kit!

 

I saw this in a Flight Global article (that Wiki quotes) which suggests that it is a uniform extension of the trailing edge, or perhaps the extension tapers as you suggest in one of your pictures if the -900 and -1000 share the same raked wing tip.

 

The wing will feature a trailing-edge extension increasing its area by 4%, which McConnell describes as "quite a big change because it extends the high-lift devices and the ailerons, making the chord bigger by around 400mm. We've been able to optimise the flap lift performance as well as gain more performance in the cruise."

[phil1]

22 hours ago, Romeo Alpha Yankee said:

Wow, some deep thought involved with the wings there Phil. Makes you wonder if Zvezda is having the same thoughts with the dimensions of their kit!

 

I saw this in a Flight Global article (that Wiki quotes) which suggests that it is a uniform extension of the trailing edge, or perhaps the extension tapers as you suggest in one of your pictures if the -900 and -1000 share the same raked wing tip.

 

 

yeah mate and would you believe I've actually read the same article! I've had to resort to looking at reference photos to try and tell the difference but visually the difference is minimal to non existent. I did though manage to find where the new gear doors extend to and some other subtle differences

 

1. The gear door stretches back half a frame (or square in this case). 

2. The RAT door is the same distance further back

3.  There's only 3 circular vents rather than 4 

 

 

Compared to a very similar picture of the A35X (copyrighted unfortunately) the leading edge appears in EXACTLY the same place. Both pictures show the flaps extended, to what degree is unclear

 

Maybe some bloke from zvezda can clear it up mate? our we might know in 6 months time!  

[XV571]

Hi Phil,

 

Great work as usual on stretching the Revell A350. We all thank you for doing this so that Zvezda could promptly go and announce their -1000 kit!

 

I've been looking into this off and on since a conversation I had at SMW last November. I wan't sure whether to post this in the original thread but I think it's probably more appropriate here for now. So, go get a cuppa and make yourself comfy for a long read

 

The exact forward plug location is actually inserted at Frame 30, this is after the eleventh window from the first door and is six frames long (7 windows). The aft plug is five frames (six windows) aft of Frame 72 (located four windows behind Door 3 however as this is still inside the wing to body fairing zone, unless you cut aft of this (like you've done) you'd need to perform major surgery. The centre section is the same length on both variants. Incidentally the centre of Door 2 now falls directly in line with the forward tip of the wing to body fairing.
 
On the wings, after a few false starts I now think I've got to the bottom of the wing differences between the two variants:

 

There is an extension to the trailing edge only. From the data I've seen the chord at the fuselage/wing root is the same for the -900 and -1000. After seeing reference to Flap and Winglet trailing edge extensions, further investigation confirmed that the chord is wider out to the wing tip on the A35K. This extension is quite subtle as it effectively extends the trailing edge between the wing root and winglet but  tapers away toward the extreme tip of the Winglet.

 

This is a diagram to show the change between the two (the shaded area is the A350-900 wing) which as you can see requires addition of about 2.0mm to the kit's trailing edge with a taper at each end. My figure is derived from reliable source data and the Revell A350 wing matches it well - if you print it out the flap track fairings should align with the kit's wing and the wing root should match (do not include the section used to locate the wing into the fuselage!) The wing tip should more or less align but obviously it's going to be tricky to match it perfectly between the 2D drawing and the moulded 3D plastic. Adding the extension on to the winglets may prove to be troublesome considering the Revell wing is solid outboard of the wing tip.

 

On the Main Landing Gear bay - this ia one frame longer that the A359, the extra being at the rear of the bay. This is an additional 4.4mm compared to the kit door. Unfortunately I don't have any detail pictures I can post but the corners are more squared off at the front and the rear and the doors are slightly narrower than the A359's. The RAT is also moved one frame back as you observed.

 

Here's three photos of Cathay Pacific A35Ks with good shots of the door shape:

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5236717/L?qsp=eJxtjTEOwjAQBP%2BytRsEBCsdaSih4AOn8wGWQmKdr0gU5e8YR6KiW82uZhfwOJhMdp%2BToEUWUn7BIZHSO6NdQFFZ6WEd5cjbzJ927scvMoj%2BbdA2x8bvHfKo1s1FH8jkzCzJJGDjVw2i30oy199n0RRJEr3VDH8oPMSceqoOMYo91vUDkTo%2BSQ%3D%3D

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5133441/L?qsp=eJxtTrsOwjAM/BfPWXiVKBtdGOnAD1iOgUiljWwPVFX/naaRmNjupbubgcbB%2BGP3KTMEUEahFzjIKPhWCDNgEhJ8WIuaqMb8eed%2B%2BpUHlr8OhObU%2BIMDHcXaaa2PaHwh4mwcoeo3iSzFYqVt91l%2B7Atk6Srzx5XGpLnHrYUNUw/L8gUBCj6O

 

https://www.airliners.net/photo/Cathay-Pacific-Airways/Airbus-A350-1041/5110515/L?qsp=eJxtTrsOwjAM/BfPWXiVKBtdGOnAD1iOgUiljWwPVFX/naaRmNjupbubgcbB%2BGP3KTMEUEahFzjIKPhWCDNgEhJ8WIuaqMb8eed%2B%2BpUHlr8OhObU%2BIMDHcXaaa2PaHwh4mwcoeo3iSzFYqVt91l%2B7Atk6Srzx5XGpLnHrYUNUw/L8gUBCj6O

 

Finally, the Ram Air Outlet exhausts. Typically this isn't as simple as you might think; depending on the aircraft there can be between two to four. Note that the grilles forward and aft of the exhausts on the kit were deleted from MSN005 (the second carbon fibre livery jet now F-HREU with French Bee). You can also see this in Phil's picture above. MSN005 was also actually the last to have 4 exhausts. Of the early test aircraft MSNs 001, 002 & 005 had 4, MSN 003 had 3 and MSN 004 had 2. Production aircraft have 2 or 3; I have no idea why, it may be down to a customer configuration.

 

I thinks that covers Phil's questions. If anyone has any more on the A350-1000 external differences I'll see if I can come up with some answers for you.

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan